Advice: Teething/Bite

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by bjh

Donna, I really have not shown yorkies that much and I still have lots to learn. I know the bite is important just as all structure is. Since there are no perfect dogs I was just wondering why breeders say never breed a dog with a bite that is not perfect but yet they breed dogs with other structural problems. All the dogs I have in my breeding program have nice bites but I still occasionally will get a pup with a bad bite. I recently had a litter with two over shot pups and that really puzzled me because up until that litter I had only had two over shot pups over the years. Both parents had nice bites so I guess somewhere back in the bloodline there might have been a bite problem or do these bad bites just show up no matter how careful you are?

What is a rye mouth?

A good bite is thought to be a dominant trait. Therefore both dogs can have a good bite but carry the recessive gene for a bad bite. Unless the dog or bitch is homozygous for a good bite a bad one will pop up from time to time. Those sneaky recessives, you know.
A rye mouth is where the jaw is actually twisted. It often causes the bite to be fine on one side and off on the other.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Head
.
Small and rather flat on top, the skull not too prominent or round, the muzzle not too long, with the bite neither undershot nor overshot and teeth sound. Either scissors bite or level bite is acceptable. The nose is black.

What is 'the muzzle is not too long'. Someone recently told me that to judge the proper length of the muzzle you should lay two fingers over the muzzle and if the muzzle if more than two fingers long it is too long and if it is shorter than two fingers it is too short. Is that a good rule of thumb. Of course I guess it would also vary depending on the person and the size of their fingers and also the size of the dog.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

Donna, I really have not shown yorkies that much and I still have lots to learn. I know the bite is important just as all structure is. Since there are no perfect dogs I was just wondering why breeders say never breed a dog with a bite that is not perfect but yet they breed dogs with other structural problems. All the dogs I have in my breeding program have nice bites but I still occasionally will get a pup with a bad bite. I recently had a litter with two over shot pups and that really puzzled me because up until that litter I had only had two over shot pups over the years. Both parents had nice bites so I guess somewhere back in the bloodline there might have been a bite problem or do these bad bites just show up no matter how careful you are?

What is a rye mouth?

Well, I don't show a dog with structural problems so it's up to the each individual breeder/exhibitor as to which fault they can live with. I personally strive for the perfect yorkie but of course we all know there isn't one. So, if in a litter one or if any do not fit my criteria they all go as pets. And I will try again. Some I believe show yorkies just to get a champion so they can sell puppies as championed sired for more money. I see so many bad representations in the ring I sometimes just sit and shake my head and wonder why these people aren't reading the standard....as some would say...sh"t happens...it's just how the genetics shake up...
Rye mouth is a cross bite...
Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I love the illustrated, it's so much clearer with pictures.

I do too. There was YTCA talk a few years back of adopting it as the Standard so there could be no room for interpretation (sp).

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I love the illustrated, it's so much clearer with pictures.

Is the illustrated standard online or do you have to order it?

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by bjh

Is the illustrated standard online or do you have to order it?

I got mine while I was in NY but I believe you can order it from the YTCA website. It was only $10. and well worth it.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by bjh

What is 'the muzzle is not too long'. Someone recently told me that to judge the proper length of the muzzle you should lay two fingers over the muzzle and if the muzzle if more than two fingers long it is too long and if it is shorter than two fingers it is too short. Is that a good rule of thumb. Of course I guess it would also vary depending on the person and the size of their fingers and also the size of the dog.

Not to long is one of those things that are left to interpretation. Some prefer a more terrier head like is shown in the Illustrated Discussion and some prefer a more baby face like you'll see in Loraine's Pastoral dogs. I would look at proportion. The muzzle should be in proportion to the rest of the head and body of the dog, lending balance without ever looking coarse. You don't want to look like a silky but not a chi either.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

Is the illustrated standard online or do you have to order it?

I got mine when I became a member.....

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Not to long is one of those things that are left to interpretation. Some prefer a more terrier head like is shown in the Illustrated Discussion and some prefer a more baby face like you'll see in Loraine's Pastoral dogs. I would look at proportion. The muzzle should be in proportion to the rest of the head and body of the dog, lending balance without ever looking coarse. You don't want to look like a silky but not a chi either.

Now Tami....my dogs are from Pastoral, decendent from Johnnie and they don't have baby faces.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Now Tami....my dogs are from Pastoral, decendent from Johnnie and they don't have baby faces.

Most of the Pastoral line does have rounder eyes and a shorter muzzle. The heads are so consistent in Lorraine's breeding that I can usually pick them out as being Pastoral. The Ozmillion dogs have a certain look as well, a bit more terrier, you'll see that look alot in England. What I'm saying is it really is a matter of taste as to how long the muzzle should be.

[bjh]

There is a varied of 'looks' when it comes to the head. I am not stuck on any certain look, I like to look at the whole package. Some yorkies look like they have longer muzzles when their facial hair is tied up but once it is let down they look beautiful. I am still struggling with the down faced look. Sometimes I will look at a yorkie and think it looks down faced but other times it will not look that way.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

Most of the Pastoral line does have rounder eyes and a shorter muzzle. The heads are so consistent in Lorraine's breeding that I can usually pick them out as being Pastoral. The Ozmillion dogs have a certain look as well, a bit more terrier, you'll see that look alot in England. What I'm saying is it really is a matter of taste as to how long the muzzle should be.

They do have a pretty head......but, I don't agree with you about the rounder eye.

Go-Go is out of Junior Pastoral Junior League whose out of Johnnie and Charmer is out of Baxter/Pastoral The Blues are Back also out of Johnnie......neither one of them had a rounder eye....very almond shaped and not baby faced.

Cup Cake the lil girl she just finished has a softer head, but very almond eyes.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

There is a varied of 'looks' when it comes to the head. I am not stuck on any certain look, I like to look at the whole package. Some yorkies look like they have longer muzzles when their facial hair is tied up but once it is let down they look beautiful. I am still struggling with the down faced look. Sometimes I will look at a yorkie and think it looks down faced but other times it will not look that way.

I have a certain type that I like....but, am more of topline and movement person, but I do like a softer head.

My Go-Go does have a longer muzzle, you could really tell it when she was a pup, when her facial furnishings grew out the muzzle didn't look as long.

Down faced is very easy to tell. Look at a yorkie from the side profile....when it's head is level....the nose will definately show a downward slope....But, if you had the illustrated standard you'd really be able to pick them out.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I have a certain type that I like....but, am more of topline and movement person, but I do like a softer head.

My Go-Go does have a longer muzzle, you could really tell it when she was a pup, when her facial furnishings grew out the muzzle didn't look as long.

Down faced is very easy to tell. Look at a yorkie from the side profile....when it's head is level....the nose will definately show a downward slope....But, if you had the illustrated standard you'd really be able to pick them out.

I think some yorkies have a tendency to arch their neck when they are on a lead and sometimes that makes them appear down faced when they are not.

[topknot]

Nice discussion going on here. Good information.

Down muzzles - I hate this. Just not correct or appealing to me. Yes, you are right, some photos can seem like a yorkie has a down muzzle and then another photo taken of that same dog right after that first shot and the second photo does not show a down muzzle. It is always best to see a dog in real life to tell for sure. I think with the camera shots, it all depends on angles and lighting how it can through off a muzzle or not in the photo.

Bites -I would never keep a yorkie with an undershot or overbite. And I would never show one ever that did. When the pups are about 12 weeks and again at 6 months I take them to my vet and have their bites evaluated. My vet is pretty good and can tell by the jaw alignment is as to how the bite will turn out. Also at 6 -7 months, depending on the dog and size I take them in and have any baby teeth pulled. He is very good and knows which are the baby teeth. Never made a mistake yet. All my yorkies have scissors bite. I have not seen even, not that I can remember.

Eyes - love those almond shaped eyes - and love those long eyelashes you get on some - makes them look so doe like and sweet. Need that darker eye trim line around the eyes too.