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I imagine RC is scientifically fine. It did not work for my pup because of chewing issues when she was tiny so even though it was breeder recommended I had to change her to wet food for a while. Once she was better at chewing I searched for kibble that I felt good giving her. Common sense tells me that a dog should have meat as the first ingredient. Yes, they can live with corn and rice and a little meat by products thrown in, but WHY should they?

Vegetarians survive, some even thrive on the diet they choose but most are very careful about getting protein in other ways. It is their choice.

We are making the choice for our dogs and if you are fine with a variety of ingredients that make up for the pure clean protein of meat, you should go for it. I look for dog foods with a short list of pure ingredients with recognizable names. That's just me. Best wishes to all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4499731)

Quote:
"Obviously RC is getting word that a lot of us are no longer happy customers (I know I wrote them stating so), hence the RC Rep showing up here for the first time in all these years I've been on YT"

I have been a customer of RC for over 35 years. I am in constant communication with them over all that time, for a variety of reasons and questions and explanations....and begging for product accessability! While I did mention YT and all the people that were upset with the label change, believe me, if anyone from RC chose to show up here, they did so out of the kindness of their hearts, not to try to salvage the company's bottom line!

The handful of "disgruntled" people on YT that are unhappy with RC, does not even amount to a drop in the bucket, as far as keeping RC afloat and selling dog food! This is a global dog food company....they sold dogfood for at least 10 years all over Europe, Asia, Canada, etc., before they came to the USA.... RC certainly does not really have to waste their time trying to "save their business" by coming on this forum, trying to educate people and perhaps answer questions they may have about dog food and the myths surrounding the ingredients. I know YT has a huge following, but to presume that RC came here because they were in a financial bind "since so many people on YT were now looking elsewhere"...I just wish we were all THAT important to anyone!!!....and I actually dont really believe there are actually that huge number of people that have been feeding RTC, have had no ill effects from feeding it, their dogs love it and thrive on it, and because the ingredients label moved positions of some ingredients, they kick this great food to the curb and jump into the frey of trying to find another dog food that their dogs do as well on, like as well, etc. It is just halariously funny to think this RC rep came here with any other intention other than trying to educate and clarify and explane to some people why the changes were done, what they mean, etc.

I appreciate the people that have accepted her gracious contribution in the spirit it was given, rather than insulting her, calling the company unethical, and insinuating the only reason she showed up is because this forum has some how injured/affected their bottom line! This huge, huge company has terrific customer service, and responding to a question or complaint is simply to provide that customer or handful of customers with clarity, not a desperate attempt to "save" the company from ruin! Like I said, this company is global, they sell to millions and millions of people all over the world, and they have been a huge, booming business, producing a product that many, many people are exceedingly happy with.......the few people on YT that are not happy and thoroughly disgusted with the "horrific" changes made by RC, are not going to be swayed by the contributions of a nutritionist....fault will be found with anything she says or does, and reasons why she has come to help will be misconstrued and misjudged.

It is rather amusing that some of the people that are so very concerned about telling abusive, negligent pet owners what THEY are doing wrong and are so appalled with breeders and others that try to educate and inform these people, will quickly insult or try to discredit a professional that is offering unsolicited advice and help about nutrition and the product/company she works for, with no concern SHE will get "her feelings hurt and run away into the shadows, never to return". She is the only one that has ever come to this site and done that....There has never been a vet or a nutritionist, or a researcher or a scientist that has bothered to show up and offer their time or expertise to anyone on YT for any reason. Thank you Ashley, you really are appreciated by soooo many more on here....I will call them "The Silent Majority"! They may not agree with you, but they will ask and think about it and learn.

I would love for an independent nutritionist to explain certain things, but when someone works for a company, they are under no obligations to "teach" or educate anyone. They may say that's their goal, but they want to sell a product. That is the bottom line.

Lets hear Ashleys' definition of Brewers Rice:

Quote:

Brewers Rice:
Brewers rice is essentially broken white rice. The more “visually” desirable whole white rice pieces are sifted from the broken white rice pieces to be used in the human food chain. The remaining broken pieces contain identical nutrition to the whole white rice pieces. This is used in the brewing industry or in the pet food industry.

Brewers rice primarily consists of starch; an energy providing nutrient that is also essential to the structure of kibble. It also is a source of protein. You can read more about the different types of rice here: The "Sticky" on Rice / Nutrition Corner / Your Pet's Nutrition / Home - RoyalCanin

Let's hear an independent definition of Brewers rice:

Quote:

Brewers' rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice. (AAFCO definition).[1] Brewers' rice is a processed rice product that is missing many of the nutrients contained in whole ground rice and brown rice thus reducing the quality
Brewers' rice and second heads are one of the many byproducts that rice milling creates. Second heads are milled rice kernels that are one half to three quarters of the original kernel. Brewers' rice is a milled rice kernel that is one quarter to half the size of a full kernel. Second heads, depending on their quality are used to make rice flour. "If the quality of the second heads are poor, they will be sold for pet food or dairy feed. Brewers rice is sold for pet food and dairy feed exclusively."[3] and, despite having little nutritional value is found in approximately one third of pet food sold in the US. Brewers rice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ashley definition and the independent definition are very close, but certain key facts are left out of Ashley definition, like it has "little nutritional value." She is correct that kibble needs some type of starch in order to retain it's shape, but why not use a nutritious grain? Also, Brewer's rice is now the number one ingredient, it's no longer chicken meal, should the number one ingredient of a food offer only calories?

So you think you are going to get good solid answers, and I think Ashley is under no obligation to do that and will mislead as much as possible.

According to Ashley, chicken by-product meals is as expensive, if not more expensive than chicken meal. Do you really believe that's true? Please do some independent research on this. Just like I tell people do to their homework when choosing a breeder, you have to do your homework when choosing a food, you can't just rely on the name of a company anymore, companies change hands all the time and their goals and mission change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4500106)

[/b]

I would love for an independent nutritionist to explain certain things, but when someone works for a company, they are under no obligations to "teach" or educate anyone. They may say that's their goal, but they want to sell a product. That is the bottom line.

Lets hear Ashleys' definition of Brewers Rice:

Let's hear an independent definition of Brewers rice:

Ashley definition and the independent definition are very close, but certain key facts are left out of Ashley definition, like it has "little nutritional value." She is correct that kibble needs some type of starch in order to retain it's shape, but why not use a nutritious grain? Also, Brewer's rice is now the number one ingredient, it's no longer chicken meal, should the number one ingredient of a food offer only calories?

So you think you are going to get good solid answers, and I think Ashley is under no obligation to do that and will mislead as much as possible.

According to Ashley, chicken by-product meals is as expensive, if not more expensive than chicken meal. Do you really believe that's true? Please do some independent research on this. Just like I tell people do to their homework when choosing a breeder, you have to do your homework when choosing a food, you can't just rely on the name of a company anymore, companies change hands all the time and their goals and mission change.

Very salient and informative...thanks for digging this up. To me, it's like how people don't generally fully invest in the opinions of DFA (dog food analysis site), but they do in a Vet Nutritionist. I can't fully invest in/trust the opinions of someone who works for the company and then they're analyzing the very products they themselves sell, whether directly or indirectly. There is an undeniable conflict of interest there.

I'm not saying it's not valuable to have a pet food industry employee here, my gosh...wish we had one from EVERY company here! But I am saying there is a very clear conflict of interest and we should always keep that in mind.

It's no different than our YT rule about those members here who SELL pet food - they are not even *allowed* to promote their own food in this section! It's considered a conflict of interest and we consider that to be misleading to our members. I should actually check w/ Admin to make sure that they are comfortable w/ even having a food's rep here, or if they see it as too much of a conflict and/or as "selling/marketing" their own food. My guess is it will be okay though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4500131)

Gosh....I hope they allow her to continue. She is clearing up definitions about different terms and explaining terms, just as anyone that gets on here and tries to explane terminology as it appears on dog food labels, or posts articles from vets and other nutritionists about such things. Articles defining or clarifying specific things having to do with dog food, myths, holistic options, etc., I suppose would be the next to go. I guess they can shut her down, and then perhaps all discussions or recommendations about dog food from different companies and nutrition from different ingredients in all dog foods, will like wise be banned, as will all recommendations for specific dog foods or types of dog food from members....raw, home cooked, Rx foods, etc. Such a shame if such input is seen as "conflict of interest", rather than exchange or infusion of knowledge from qualified, knowledgable sources.

As long as no one comes on here and starts selling their brand of dogfood, or their brand of vitamins or teeth cleaning solutions, or treats, etc., it would be a shame to shut down their input. Those that gravitate to holistic dog food, or raw, or home cooking, or any store bought dog food should be able to speak of the benefits of the option they choose for their pets. I do not agree allowing any product to be referred to as "crap" or "trash" by anyone.....that is strictly a personal opinion and is actually not valid, unless it is PROVEN to be unhealthy or toxic to our pets. Posting pet food recalls is a good example of providing examples of a particular food or treat that has either caused untoward reactions or could possibly be in danger of causing an issue for our pets.

I can not imagine anyone sharing definitions or providing clarification about ingredients about a product, being a "conflict of interest" just because that person happens to be a nutritionist, as long as she is not promoting her product or comparing her company's dogfood over another brand....and she specifically said she was not going to compare brands or promote RC...she was just going to discuss and clarify any confusion or questions regarding ingredients in (any) dog food. She has done only that! But it is what it is.........

Nothing the rep said made a difference to me.
I am not going to feed my dog by-products and PAY the high amount I pay for RC when there are other foods that do not use by-products that are cheaper in price.
I would like to hear why the rep. feels this is right. Paying MORE fo foods that contain cheap by-products? No sense to it.
I'm still trying to make sense out of HOW the change to by-products is better for my dogs. :aimeeyork:aimeeyork
I can feed Hills Ideal Balance or even Science Diet kibble if I want a BIG company with lots of researchers on staff that does not use cheap by-products. There are many more companies to chose from as well that do not use by-products.
For now, I have started the transition to Fromm Chicken because the protein is the same source (chickens).
That's my little consumer opinion. :) You have lost my $ RC
:mad:

People that are absolutely determined they will not feed ANY brand of dog food, no matter what anyone says, regardless of their qualifications, should not even consider doing it. There are hundreds of choices made available to every single consumer out there. You make your choice that best suits you and your dogs and you live with your choice. I am afraid the feelings of mistrust and outright resentment for what this rep was trying to do, has reached a level where she will be wasting her time and efforts. I know if I were so dead set against a particular dogfood, or any product for that matter, rather than continually ask questions or challenge that rep, I would go to my OWN "trusted" source and go with what they tell me. There is NO point in this nutritionist wasting her time to try to explane the answer to your question.....nothing she would say would be right to you. I have found that continually challenging, confronting and then ridiculing the reponse I get from anyone, is non productive and a waste of time. A more favorible and productive result for you would be to contact a nutritionist from your favorite choice of dog food and ask them your questions....only then will you be satisfied with the answers you get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4500193)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: I agree totally with this...all of it!

Ashley, I would certainly not blame you if you left us, but I would hope you would not since there are many people who would love to hear what you have to say. I especially want to know about the auto parts...LOL. I hate that people cannot simply ask you questions in an educational way rather than try to discredit you and assume you are trying to sell a product, but; to quote Judy, it is what it is. This is the way of online forums...sadly sometimes you just have to say the short version of the serenity prayer and move along. I would love to know where you may lurk online if you are on other places such as Facebook. I used to love reading my vet nutritionist's page but sadly it is no longer there. :(

Ashley, thank you for coming here to share your knowledge about nutrition. I also want to thank you and RC for offering your line of prescription food so we have an an alternative to Hills prescription food. We chose to feed our Yorkie the RC Hepatic diet instead of the Hills that our vet sold. We asked for a prescription and picked it up at Petsmart, which we also like the convenience of being able to pick it up at Petsmart.

I never understood much about nutrition and I pretty much rely on what people recommend on here. I appreciate the way you are explaining nutrition in ways that I can understand. I am learning a lot. I also appreciate others who are respectfully disagreeing with Ashley so I can see another point of view and make my own decisions.

I can say though that I am grateful that RC offers a line of prescription food because my pup needs it in order to stay healthy. The problem I have now is that my healthy dog wants to eat her prescription food too.

Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein

Ashley, I would also like to thank you for coming here to share your knowledge about nutrition. I feed the RC Prescription Hydrolyzed Protein due to various allergy issues. :thumbup::thumbup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4500199)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: I agree totally with this...all of it!

Ashley, I would certainly not blame you if you left us, but I would hope you would not since there are many people who would love to hear what you have to say. I especially want to know about the auto parts...LOL. I hate that people cannot simply ask you questions in an educational way rather than try to discredit you and assume you are trying to sell a product, but; to quote Judy, it is what it is. This is the way of online forums...sadly sometimes you just have to say the short version of the serenity prayer and move along. I would love to know where you may lurk online if you are on other places such as Facebook. I used to love reading my vet nutritionist's page but sadly it is no longer there. :(

If Ashley has gone, I will find out if she has a Facebook page or how we that enjoyed and appreciated the time and effort she took on this forum, can continue to communicate with her...I know RC has an extensive library of nutritional information that I received as a breeder.....I THINK, I BELIEVE, they also have a news letter they send out....that old senior memory thing waffles between what I have actually read and what I wish I had read!

I will ask my friend that does my website and all my techy stuff, to put that information when I do get it, on my Facebook thingie and anyone that is interested in reading the information for their own learning curve rather than to launch an assault on this womans integrity, can get the information there or PM me on this site, let me know you are interested, and I will try to provide it to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4500243)

[/B]

If Ashley has gone, I will find out if she has a Facebook page or how we that enjoyed and appreciated the time and effort she took on this forum, can continue to communicate with her...I know RC has an extensive library of nutritional information that I received as a breeder.....I THINK, I BELIEVE, they also have a news letter they send out....that old senior memory thing waffles between what I have actually read and what I wish I had read!

I will ask my friend that does my website and all my techy stuff, to put that information when I do get it, on my Facebook thingie and anyone that is interested in reading the information for their own learning curve rather than to launch an assault on this womans integrity, can get the information there or PM me on this site, let me know you are interested, and I will try to provide it to you.

Ashley just went home from work for the weekend- on her last post she said goodbye for the week and that she looked forward to chatting again (presumably when she returned to work) next week :daisy:

just read this thread in it's entirety and...

:D Speaking from a third person point of view, We are a bunch of hens. Lol. A bunch of inquisitive, informative, challenging,logical, idealistic, argumentative, complacent,stubborn, appreciative, and sometimes distracted hens. Oh, and opinionated. We are definitely opiniated. Makes for good conversation when we're all declawed. That is all...:D

Re: Happy monday!!!

Hello YT parents... and Happy Monday :aimeeyork!

Hope there are no "case of the Mondays" (Office Space reference ;)) out there. It's a pretty cold morning here in Guelph... barely above the 0C mark. I even had to scrape my back window!! :eek:

I must say you are all very sweet for your comments... but I haven't gone anywhere! I was "off-line" for the weekend and came back to a flood of great posts/discussions etc. that I'm excited to jump back into.

To clarify for everyone: I am openly communicating that I work for Royal Canin. There are enough "trolls" roaming the internet from companies that I wanted to be up front with you about where I'm from. I don't want you to feel I'm sneaking around your forums. I'm actually staying in this single forum I created. I completely understand there are many other discussions going on in YorkieTalk world, but to be fair to all the YT parents, I created my own thread so specific discussions from myself would remain here, and not take away from the discussions you are all having elsewhere.

I completely respect that people will not believe me no matter what knowledge or support I share. You are free to have your views and opinions on nutrition.

Anyways... I'll be back with the much anticipated response to my Friday challenge soon!

Ashley

Ashley I have a question for you....
You said that excess protein is eliminated in the stool. My dog eats a home cooked grain-free meal of 45% protein and 12% fat and 12% fiber. I haven't noticed any stool issues other than they are very small and really don't smell. Personally, I believe that grains fill the toilet for both people and pets so im trying to understand your generalization.

FWIW, I appreciate your disclosure that you work for RC. I think it does put us on notice that your philosophy and delivery of information in that light. I still think it's great to have you here.

I have to agree with Nancy on the cost of byproducts versus muscle meats. Boneless chicken breast at my local big chain grocery store was $3.99/lb (sale price) and a hearts/gizzard mix was $1.60/lb. I frequently buy chicken spines for very cheap for soups and the poultry farm doesn't even charge me for chicken feet. I guess I could buy your explanation more if the price of the formula correspondingly decreased based on the new ingredients of cheap broken rice and byproducts. I don't disagree that the food could still be quality. I don't think chicken backs and necks produce any less quality stock than a bone-in muscle meats, but I will indeed spend less on those items. Did RC drop the price of the food to reflect this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opium88 (Post 4500567)

Lol :D - LOVE it - you've captured it perfectly.