I believe it was the fat and protein but I don't want to misquote her. I'm impressed that a Fromm rep recommended one of their lower cost products though, at least a lower cost than the no grain that I was asking about. When I made the call, I was already sold on the grain free, just called for some details(kibble sizes) and verification. My next call was going to be chewey.com to place the order. LOL I had it all written out on my little list! LOL Fromm's honesty impressed me.

Thanks for the added points, they help a lot!

Good to hear
 

How big is that kibble and is it flat or fat...:)

Welllll
 

What kind are you getting then???:)

Fromm does have a few grain-frees that are a bit lower in fat and calorie. I believe the game bird and the salmona tunalini are a bit lower in fat than a few of the other GF's.

Nancy, I was thinking chewy.com may just have the wrong ingredient list or outdated, as sometimes they do, but it does seem the RC site has that ingredient list as well. :(

Yorkshire Terrier / BREED HEALTH NUTRITION? / Dog Products / Products / Products / Home Royal Canin USA - Royal Canin

Shame when foods change when they're not broken....

Two rice as the first ingredient and no more real chicken, just by product? Plus corn AND corn gluten meal? Like you said, byproducts themselves don't even particulary bother me, but it's how it's all used or formulated together and this ingredient list is a big :thumbdown

Thank you, Wellness is on the short list due to ingredients and kibble size. Kind of waiting to hear from Yorkiemoms rep to see if RC is still in the running. Not happy about the by product and rice hull element. Don't we get enough of that at Mickey D's? LOL Fromm Four Star(with grain) is on the short list also per the advice of the Fromm rep concerning my pups age and size.

I've only had this old guy about a year and a half, never thought I'd enjoy such a small dog so much, couldn't say no when my better half asked about accepting him, just want to do what I can to keep him as healthy as is feasibly possible.

I------DON'T-------KNOW! LOL I was very excited last night when I found/stumbled upon a yorkie specific formula at chewey.com. Now, not so much. Even, more frustrated that RC had a reasonable ingredient list but changed it to it's present formula. This is still a thread for opinions on RC's Yorkie specific dry dog food, all the comments have been great! While Yorkiemom gets her info, I need to look closer at Wellness and Fromm. I ruled out Acana as I stated, same manufacturer of Orijen, Gucci didn't like it. It may be due to Orijen kibble size and shape... Gucci, 11-13 years old, 5 pounds, swallows kibble whole. He never puked it, he enthusiastically ate the first bowl of two of their recipes, after that.... I had to play games with him to get him to eat the remaining 12 oz of each of the two recipes. So I gave it time, it just didn't click for him.

A note to RC and other premium pet food manufacturers: Since you charge a premium price for your product, you better be putting premium ingredients in there! We're watching you! :D

We have only recently been on royal canin. I think it has been two months now? Lilah is nearing 2 yrs old and is 4.5 lbs and I feel she is a bit skinny for her stature -the vet said yes a bit skinny but nothing to be scared about and she is maintaining her weight and has been consistent with it so we are good, I have had her at the same vet since she joined us at twelve weeks old. We are on rc puppy even though she is over a year because honestly we tried royal canin as sort of a last ditch effort. I work in the pet food industry and I didn't like the label. I am more inclined to a grain free diet, I have participated in raw feeding and I have spent a lot of time decoding labels and learning about ingredients. Her breeder used rc, so many yt members wholeheartedly endorsed rc, it is long standing brand and I had tried so many different foods with lilah! I mean it to, I could order from a vast variety of options. Natural balance, first mate, Zignature, honest kitchen, we raise farm animals and have home fresh raw- the girl wouldn't finish a can (yes! A can of wet food!) before turning up her nose (not a freshness issue) if she would even take the first bite, sigh. We couldn't make it through a four pound bag without tossing it, couldn't finish a can without passing it to the barn cats. Just thinking about the stress I felt wishing my dog would eat something is...well, maybe almost enough...to forget how nasty offal is even though we processed chickens here last weekend. When lilah got her first bowl or royal canin she was so happy, she crunched it all up like childhood puppy memories were wrapping her in a hug. I wondered if this gusto would continue on to the next meal...it did. I know the bags are 2.5 lbs but she finished the first bag of food she has ever finished in her life. And then we got another. I was thinking that since I had gotten her to eat the puppy food maybe we would move up to adult- it is actually making me sad and nervous to see...well, like yorkie mom hesitating. Dangit! I know those ingredients are 'crap', I can read a spread sheet and I know that is what that means but man...it was so well endorsed by my peers as to see my girl eating! Wow, that has made me smile. Yes more poo and softer poo but no other adverse effects thus far. I don't think I can see her go off her feed again...when animals attack my livestock they eat the insides out first, maybe by product meal isn't the villain that high end grain free pet industry has said that it is?...idk mark, rc has felt like a godsend for us but things that seem too good to be true often are....

Wow that was long- life story personal food bio anyone? Lol, um...sorry.

It's beginning to sound more like a game show to me anymore......
And I wonder what's behind door number 3??
Surprise it looks Like an elephant , sounds like an elephants, and even moves like an elephant!!! BUZZZZZZ...it ain' no elephant

Then you are left t o determine weather you even want it in the first place,

Oh myyyy I'm weary of searching too it when they tire of what they eat it's time. To move on
Good luck!

I was really surprised when I first started preparing to find winnie and bring her home as to how many yorkie peeps highly encouraged royal canin....I can't remember which one but I was reading one breeders directions on bringing your pup home....in the same blurb she stated "never feed your pup food with corn or corn meal as its hard to digest" and then...."I will send you home with royal canin and recommend you continue with this. I feed all my yorkies RC and have for years" .... it astounded me. What shocked me even more was the price of RC for a 2.5# bag!!

I get what you mean, thanks. Summarized, we want to see our pups enjoy their food. We want their food to be nutritional and keep them healthy. Apex predators, coyotes, wolves, cougars in their natural environment favor eating organs prior to eating flesh. Organs contain higher nutritional value per pound. AND maybe most important of what I think you were trying to describe: RC's old formula/ingredients seemed borderline already even though it was scientifically sound. Now that they have changed their ingredients, it's time to reevaluate whether or not you'll be using their product. This is not something you want to do because it is such a pain in the arse to find something that our pups eat enthusiastically and will keep them healthy.

Is that about right? Cause that's what I got out of what you wrote and I feel similar although I had not been using RC Yorkie 28.

If my dog, Gucci, was younger, 1-9 years old, this is exactly what I would have done yesterday and why: I would have selected 4 out of the 6 different flavors of the Fromm Four-Star Nutritionals Grain-Free. I would have ordered those 4 from chewy.com in the 4 pound bags to reach the minimum dollar amount to qualify for free shipping and no tax in most states. It would have been what appears to be a quality ingredient, nutritionally balanced dog food to my doorstep at slightly over $3 per pound. There would have been a variety to choose from and rotate through for my dog, he and I could actually have a little fun trying the different varieties and even mixing them to hopefully keep it interesting for him. Fromm indicated that since the formulas of the 6 were similar, it would be unlikely to have transitional discomfort moving from one food to the next. I believe the bags are resealable and would stay fresher a little longer than some dog foods that are out there. That was my plan until the Fromm representative I talked to indicated Gucci is a bit too old for their Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free. Maybe it'll work for someone else. I have to keep looking because my dog is old. That's ok, just is what it is.

Mark- Maybe a call back to Fromm to find out exactly what they didn't think was good about the grain free line? Even though the protein is higher, it's not any higher than many other brands so you need to know what protein level they think is best? Or was it other ingredients?

I am not a believer in his rating system but lots of information at Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor. I know he is a dentist, not a nutritionist...blah blah blah, but he is doing this because he loves dogs. You can compare protein levels, read notes etc. There are always good and bad reviews but it may lead you back to a Fromm rotation of their 4 star line (not the grain free).

We have been very happy with it. Another Ali favorite is the Freshpet (in your grocery store) Roasted chicken. She loves it almost too much, makes her a little crazy every time I walk towards the refrigerator.

Look at 3 and 4 star foods. The 5 star foods are probably too high in protein for your little guy. Also read the ingredient list and note controversial items in RED. Good luck and Happy Researching!

Wow! See, I'm new to yorkies and small dogs. All of this is surprising! Chewy.com has that at $13 + shipping.... IDK.. between 6-7 dollars a pound. worth it if it keeps the pups healthy of course but yes the information is conflicting, there are very good foods that don't quite follow what is considered to be the healthiest of ingredients. Maybe that's why a large % of yorkies enjoy the food. LOL I'm not quite ready to stuff my head into a bowl of kale yet either! LOL

Good advice, it was about a 20 minute phone call, I don't recall EXACTLY the reasons. Too rich or "hot"(if you're familiar with horse feed) is what I got out of it but she didn't use those words.

I have referred to Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor in the past. I liked the way the info was laid out, the info on ingredient splitting and descriptions of ingredients. It's a good learning tool.

Yes, I still need to look at the other 5(grain inclusive) formulas available of the Fromm Four-Star Nutritionals Dry Dog Food. The issue there is the size and shape of the kibble. Gucci doesn't chew his food. I think so far the chicken and the salmon a la veg are candidates, but, that is far short of what I was hoping for in a selection or variety.

When we first got Gucci a year and a half ago we, or more correctly, Robyn, purchased dozens of different foods at local stores trying to find a healthy food Gucci would eat. Ended up with Nutro Natural Balance for seniors, a small round pellet type kibble. That was good for a little over a year, he no longer eats it, so what do we do, gotta find something. The small round pellet kibble is where I need to limit our search to... the Fromm grain frees are all small round kibble(or close enough)... LOL...but the grain inclusives are not....

I know I was hoping that Chewy was wrong too, the Food Advisor is often wrong on ingredient lists, but I found the same thing at RC.

Yes, so many of us here have said, If it ain't broke don't fix it, when talking about switching foods, and here RC goes ahead and changes things drastically.

Yes, that's the way Joey went after his food when I first got RC and since he was being very finicky with everything else, I was thrilled I found something he liked. I just wanted to reintegrate, I thought the old ingredients were good and I too have recommended it many times. I'm angry because it's a change that's really not labeled on the bag prominently and it's definitely inferior, price hasn't gone down though, in fact, I paid more. The thing about a inferior diet, is it may not catch up with her for a while. Does your bag say Yorkshire Terrier 28 or just Yorkshire Terrier? The ones that say 28 are the old formula.

Hi Mark - I've heard nothing but good stuff about Fromm, and they seem like a super good company! People who feed it here seem to rave about it and really stick with it.

Ack, that's gotta be so frustrating when he likes it at first and then nothing. If you don't/can't return the food and don't want to waste it, you could try sprinkling Parmesan cheese on it and see if he'll eat it...may work...?

I happen to like Wellness more, especially CORE. But I'm sure there are others who will say the total opposite, lol...it just goes that way w/ food topics.

We tried Royal Canine and my girls weren't crazy and would pick at their food and only eat if really hungry. Moved to Fromm for 6 months and put up with mushy poops and itchy skin but they liked the food.


We are now on Annamaet and they inhale it. It's a little higher in protein and fat but for now it works for us.

We have been on puppy so far, I was shooting for 'enticing' and now that she has gone through a couple of bags I was planning to try out adult and cross my fingers. The first four ingredients of puppy are: chicken by product meal, brewers rice, chicken fat and corn. After reading through this thread I decided at work today to see if 28 is still available through our supplier- said in stock for 2.5 lbs as well as ten pounds! I mean, it's the computer so idk but I place the weekly order from that company tommorow and I am seriously thinking of ordering multiple bags (rc is not a stock item at my store). Maybe yorkie talk members could write a letter to the manufacturer urging to retain production of 28- do you think it's for a lack of sales or the belief that they can pull the wool over the consumers eye and phase out better ingredients? I am genuinely in distress at the idea of having to watch lilah go through this again- I was already worried she might reject the adult, sigh.

I agree with you.
I feed Stella & Chewy's frozen and freeze dried raw food. I personally would not feed kibble either. It would be really concerning to me to see Brewers rice, brown rice, and chicken by products listed as the first three ingredients in the food. But beyond that the whole process of making kibble is not sound.

I posted the response I received from RC corporate, explaining dropping the numbers, etc.....it is in the other thread titled, " My Reps response to me......."'

Here's the separate thread including Yorkiemom's research on the RC formula change:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...sponse-me.html

Thanks! It is frustrating, I read the labels, try to do the right thing, he seemed excited, then nada. Banging my head against the wall.:eek: With all the fillers, RC might still work, I was excited to see they had a yorkie specific feed... but... who knows at this point. I'd really like to feel good about what I feed him.

Mark Fromm Grain Free is wonderful . I used Salmon Tunalini . I got it for Galen. This is one of the foods on my top ten !

Galen is very picky Liddle Sheat ! . . . I have tried more foods then I know what to do with . He would eat for a month and then nothing. . . Jenny suggested freeze dried raw. .

I am feeding freeze dried raw now. . . Primal Lamb, turkey and Duck. Stella and Chewy Surf and Turf, Pheasant, Venison and also Rabbit. He loves it. . I switch back and forth between the brands. He also gets a different flavor each meal. I am sticking to it. It is great to travel with. He loves it !

I get it from Doogiefood.com . . They have the best prices on them. They have great prices on a lot of food. And I get coupons emailed to me. . .

Mark if you have more questions please PM me

Thanks! I'll keep those in mind, might try them later, I have an idea of what I'm headed for. While I was at that site that you provided, I found what Gucci used to like, for about a year then just stopped liking and brought about this search: Nutro Natural Choice Toy Breed Senior Chicken, Whole Brown Rice & Oatmeal Formula Dry Dog Food - free shipping at doggiefood.com
Nutro Natural Choice Toy Breed Senior Chicken, Whole Brown Rice & Oatmeal Formula Dry Dog Food 4 lb Bag

I rechecked the ingredient list:
Chicken, Chicken Meal (source of Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate), Whole Brown Rice, Brewers Rice, Rice Bran, Pea Protein, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Whole Grain Oatmeal, Natural Flavor, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Soybean Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Zinc Sulfate, Marigold Extract, Meso-Inositol, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Decaffeinated Green Tea Extract, Spearmint Extract

Wish he still liked it, the ingredient list doesn't look half bad compared to some others. Although, I can't blame him for being bored with it... CHICKEN EVERY DAY WOULD SUCK! LOL

I'm going to try a variety of a single brand, sorta rotate through the various flavors of the similar formulas.

Thank you, I thought it was a great response- but I still ordered four bags of rc 28 :) I value you input greatly and will be keeping my eyes out for your household evaluations with the new diet

I googled brewers rice & it's essentially a fiber...now, why would they add so much fiber, it's moved up to the top of the list, which makes up the bulk of the food...is beyond me.

It has no nutritional value...