Originally Posted by Teegy (Post 4421369)

I also read all the comments from readers, pros and cons are given and similar points that you all yourselves make.

Elli May, the explanation my vet gave me regarding dosing of the vaccines was that if he doesn't give the entire amount the pharma company doesn't guarantee it, as I had asked him to split it. I asked him so if my dog dies of an adverse reaction to the vaccine do they have an guarantee on that.
What else can you tell me about vaccines in regards to mounting an immune response and can you point me in the direction of a good source for this. Thanks

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 4421375)

When he told you that he couldn't split the vaccine did you decline to vaccinate?

Originally Posted by Teegy (Post 4421282)

There is no dispute that heartworm disease can kill.
The article outlines that we need to question the state of our dogs health and immune system. Consider what is regularly put into it's body and honestly believe they are 100% healthy.
There are too many dog foods loaded with lab created equivalents to the natural enzymes and minerals in a natural diet. Look at all you do to your dog every year with vaccinations. The proportions are the same of that given to a dog of 150 pounds. Unlike heartworm meds that are dispensed by weight. Do we vaccinate ourselves annually.
There has to be long term effects. Just like the toxins in smoking damage your lungs. And alcoholism tends to destroy your liver.
There will always be those who have lost pets to the disease and those who never medicated and never lost a pet.
I appreciate that most of you err on the side of caution. I know loads of people who don't and have never had issues all the years they have had dogs.
So they will swear by not giving it as much as many will swear by administering it.

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 4421378)

Not to go off topic here but if a vet ever even suggested splitting a dose, I would contact the state and file a complaint.

Originally Posted by Teegy (Post 4421369)

I also read all the comments from readers, pros and cons are given and similar points that you all yourselves make.

Elli May, the explanation my vet gave me regarding dosing of the vaccines was that if he doesn't give the entire amount the pharma company doesn't guarantee it, as I had asked him to split it. I asked him so if my dog dies of an adverse reaction to the vaccine do they have an guarantee on that.
What else can you tell me about vaccines in regards to mounting an immune response and can you point me in the direction of a good source for this. Thanks

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4421264)

Same here for Tibbe. I'd rather him chance the reaction than him chance having his tiny heart full of those horrible things, coughing so hard, so short of breath, weak and diseased - and then to have to suffer - and I mean suffer - through those poisonous treatments which can kill them also. Our Animal Control Shelter told me that virtually all of the dogs that are brought in after running loose for a while will develop heartworm. It was hard hear and hard to believe but then I wondered why they would lie about it. It's such a horrible disease and terrible series of treatments. Having only seen one animal go through it was enough.

We've been fortunate enough to have made the change from Interceptor to Heartgard with no ill effects, though the change sure scared me. Tibbe loves his Heartgard, though I have to break it into two pieces as he would likely choke trying to swallow that one big chunk whole. He wolfs both halves down like a treat and it is easier to give than that tiny Interceptor pill was.

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 4421417)

I would start with a good immunology textbook if it is of interest to you. Heads up though, these are very hard reads. You can look at human vaccines to confirm that this is not just a vet med thing. Children and adults sometimes get different vaccines entirely, but other times they get the same dose of the same vaccine. It is all about immune response.

If a half dose of any med is given it won't (and should not) be guaranteed.

Originally Posted by Teegy (Post 4421440)

Megansmomma I asked the question during the annual bloodwork 6 months earlier he had given the vaccines

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4421235)

I think it's absolutely great to question the norm and the "way we do things". Otherwise, we'd never advance from anything to anywhere else. So hopefully this thread will muster up some good discussion.

To augment this discussion, I've attached some incidence maps from 2007 and 2010 below.

I'm in Arizona...you can see that our incidence is very low. Regardless, I choose to treat my kiddos rather than risk them getting heartworm. Ivermectin is a broad spectrum antiparasitic that I feel is much less toxic, monthly, than the risk/toxicity of getting the actual disease and the subsequent treatment w/ arsenic.

Here's a little story. About 5 years ago, we found a GORGEOUS female black lab stray in our neighborhood - beautiful temperament, trained, purebred. We tried to find her owners for weeks, to no avail. Some friends ended up adopting her. At their first comprehensive vet check, they found out she had heartworm...which is/was an utter shock given I can't imagine a dog contracting it here in our dry, non-mosquito DESERT where we live. But, she had it. What are the chances? SO SLIM to none. I cannot tell you how glad I was that I happened to be treating for the just-in-case heartworm disease. The lab, Ella, went through just horrendous treatments to get rid of it - it was treated w/ arsenic, which is typical. Some will say that the "slow kill" version of treatment is effective, but there is also evidence/thought that it is not. Either way, they elected to go the arsenic route as recommended by 2 different vets.

Personally, I don't ever want to risk my dogs having to go through treatment for heartworm disease.

Sure, every med has potential side effects, and every med on the planet will likely and unfortunately result in some very rare deaths. In terms of Ivermectin, any severe poisonings due to it seem to be related to a gene anomaly in that particular dog. For my dogs personally, I don't observe any side effects whatsoever. Can some effects be happening, but not observable? Sure. But again, the risk/benefit outweighs the risk of getting the disease for my dogs.

As far as the warning that if ingested by humans, a doc should be seen immediately: I need more information. It could be that on ANY dog/animal med, it's required to have that disclaimer (I don't know). It could be that, genetically, heartworm meds metabolize differently in humans than in dogs. So, unless I know more about that part -- it really means nothing to me presently.

I respect the choices of others to do what's best for their pets and who knows, maybe someday I'll be against heartworm meds bc of new information...but for now, I'm for the prevention of heartworm that these meds offer.

Originally Posted by Elliott (Post 4421467)

Question: This has always worried me living in Nebraska...lots of mosquitos. Elliott when he had his shots Rabies...etc.. he has had such severe reactions, vomiting blood almost lost him twice was in hospital for several days both times. Vet suggestion not to vaccinate him. We have not given him any shots for the past 4 years. He does have MVD. When he had his last two surgery's he had some problems with sleepy meds suppose it was how his body is processing the drugs. I am terrified to give him anything for fear of losing him but worried more about him getting heartworm...does anyone have a dog MVD that treats for Heartworm?

Originally Posted by Elliott (Post 4421467)

Question: This has always worried me living in Nebraska...lots of mosquitos. Elliott when he had his shots Rabies...etc.. he has had such severe reactions, vomiting blood almost lost him twice was in hospital for several days both times. Vet suggestion not to vaccinate him. We have not given him any shots for the past 4 years. He does have MVD. When he had his last two surgery's he had some problems with sleepy meds suppose it was how his body is processing the drugs. I am terrified to give him anything for fear of losing him but worried more about him getting heartworm...does anyone have a dog MVD that treats for Heartworm?