Bare Minimum Vaccines???

[gemy]

Originally Posted by KathyKelben

Junebugs mom I agree totally with you, and up here in Canada we (the "weird" ones) don't always give heartworm meds. either. A lot has been written by the clued in vets about how difficult it is to actually get heartworm in most areas. Thank you for speaking up.

Kathy actually while "relatively rare" it is my understanding the incidence of heartworm is on the rise.

And you have now just met some-one who had a dog contact heartworm, and go through that very poisonous treatment to clear her of the worms.

ANd she had missed at least 2doses of the preventative heartmeds. The cost to treat the heartworm? $2000 approximately. And the very real risk to her life.

[gemy]

I titer annually for Distemper and Pavro. I only give bordatella if I absolutely have to.

I titer every 3yrs now for Rabies.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Not all small breed clubs have the 12 week 'rule'.

The ACVB has different ideas about early socialization than the YTCA. Since the former group are DVMs board certified in canine behavir I have to take their advice over a group of hreeders, many of who obviously know very little about vet med. yorkie breeders may know yorkies, but I highly doubt any good toy dog hreeder sees more small dogs than a small animal vet.

I am going by articles I have read by animal behaviorists and such that shows it is better for puppies to stay with there moms until 12 even sometimes with bigger breeds but smaller breeds mature and grow slower then larger breeds. Vets can not know every breed and what is best for every breed in fact vets don't always know that much about reproduction besides the basics unless they chose that as a specialty. I have been told by a vet that the breed club and breeders know what is best by there breed then he does.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I am going by articles I have read by animal behaviorists and such that shows it is better for puppies to stay with there moms until 12 even sometimes with bigger breeds but smaller breeds mature and grow slower then larger breeds. Vets can not know every breed and what is best for every breed in fact vets don't always know that much about reproduction besides the basics unless they chose that as a specialty. I have been told by a vet that the breed club and breeders know what is best by there breed then he does.

Actually large breeds mature slower than small breeds. How-ever small breeds for sure have low weight issues, with the heightened risk of hypoglycemia.

My breed is not considered fully matured until at least 2years old, and in fact in some lines closer to 3yrs old. And this is a large breed.

Like everything, proper puppy raising, correct stimulations and exposure and training of the litter with-in the breeders home, is very very key.

I got my boy at 12 wks and just 2lbs. But he was already used to a leash. Having his nails clipped, bathing, blowdrying etc. There is no way on Gods good earth, I would have taken him at eight wks old!. Oh yes and he was crate trained and very well socialized with dogs and ppl. We have had no problem with bonding.

And 12wks old is a recommendation from the YTCA, it is not a hard and fast rule. Breeders with healthy and large pups might choose to let a pup go at 10 or 11 wks old.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

When she was saying how she got Jackson at 9 weeks yes it was because people will think ok well this person got there pup before 12 weeks so it must be fine but in reality good breeders don't let small breed pups go until 12 weeks.

That is way too broad of a statement. Again, not everything is so black and white. Some good breeders would be willing to let a larger dog, who is weaned and ready to go, go at 9-10 weeks instead of waiting until 12. Selling a Yorkie at 10 weeks doesn't just... automatically = omg bad breeder. I have spoken to a few very reputable Silky breeders who were willing to let their pups go by 10 weeks. They are not by any stretch of the means a bad breeder.

But we're going wayyy off topic here.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Britster

That is way too broad of a statement. Again, not everything is so black and white. Some good breeders would be willing to let a larger dog, who is weaned and ready to go, go at 9-10 weeks instead of waiting until 12. Selling a Yorkie at 10 weeks doesn't just... automatically = omg bad breeder. I have spoken to a few very reputable Silky breeders who were willing to let their pups go by 10 weeks. They are not by any stretch of the means a bad breeder.

But we're going wayyy off topic here.

Personally as far as yorkies go I think all reputable breeders follow the breed club and are a member of the breed club and there rule is 12 weeks. Reading what I have on it and hearing all the stories from the people who got there pups early and most of them having biting issues and then listen to the people who go there pups a 12 weeks I think it shows 12 weeks is best. I would guess if the silky club (which I have never looked at) does not mention it or have a rule of it then maybe it is not such a problem with silky's.

[107barney]

Taylor your view of "reality" isn't the reality some of us experience. For me, I'll obtain pups before 12 weeks. My dogs could acclimate to any situation because they have been very well socialized since 8 weeks old. And the DVMs that Crystal refer to have a position statement saying the very opposite of your contention of what articles that you've read supposedly say. And reputable breeders make a judgment call about when the pups can go home. There's no sense for a weaned dog at 3 lbs to say with it's mother when it can come home go its new family of other dogs and people and start puppy class immediately. You keep repeating things like they are gospel, and not all of us follow the word of whatever it is breed club you're referring to. Just like bully sticks break teeth but you had to experience that go believe it, there really are breeders out there who indeed are very good and would hand off a pup to an experienced buyer under the right circumstances for the right amount of cash in hand.

As for the general views on this thread, heartworm meds must be given monthly and yes you should test annually regardless. It's simply not true to say the occurrences are rare in Toronto - the very climate would tell me that it's probably a lot like the northeast and that means there are Mosquitos. It only takes one. And I remember when Gemy's dog underwent treatment and our hearts all broke with her. Regarding vaccines, in my view it is over vaccinating to give lepto when the vaccine doesn't cover emerging serovars and has great potential downsides. I do not believe in administering Benadryl prior to vaccine in dogs that have not had a prior reaction.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Taylor your view of "reality" isn't the reality some of us experience. For me, I'll obtain pups before 12 weeks. My dogs could acclimate to any situation because they have been very well socialized since 8 weeks old. And the DVMs that Crystal refer to have a position statement saying the very opposite of your contention of what articles that you've read supposedly say. And reputable breeders make a judgment call about when the pups can go home. There's no sense for a weaned dog at 3 lbs to say with it's mother when it can come home go its new family of other dogs and people and start puppy class immediately. You keep repeating things like they are gospel, and not all of us follow the word of whatever it is breed club you're referring to. Just like bully sticks break teeth but you had to experience that go believe it, there really are breeders out there who indeed are very good and would hand off a pup to an experienced buyer under the right circumstances for the right amount of cash in hand.

As for the general views on this thread, heartworm meds must be given monthly and yes you should test annually regardless. It's simply not true to say the occurrences are rare in Toronto - the very climate would tell me that it's probably a lot like the northeast and that means there are Mosquitos. It only takes one. And I remember when Gemy's dog underwent treatment and our hearts all broke with her. Regarding vaccines, in my view it is over vaccinating to give lepto when the vaccine doesn't cover emerging serovars and has great potential downsides. I do not believe in administering Benadryl prior to vaccine in dogs that have not had a prior reaction.

I believe extremely strongly that reputable breeders follow the YTCA just like you extremely believe otherwise. Most people buying a yorkie puppy are not experienced owners. In the case of an only pup that is when the 12 weeks rule is most important because there are no other dogs to teach the dog. Everybody is going to believe what they are doing for there dog is best. If you had watched a family pet goat die of Lepto you may also feel different about the vaccine. I certainly am not going to believe a regular person who has not gone to vet school over my vet that I talked to for over 45 minutes just about Lepto and the vaccine and I will not be made to feel like I am over vaccination my dog and being a terrible pet owner by getting Lepto. Everyone views are different and EVERY one is allowed to post there views on things.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I believe extremely strongly that reputable breeders follow the YTCA just like you extremely believe otherwise. Most people buying a yorkie puppy are not experienced owners. In the case of an only pup that is when the 12 weeks rule is most important because there are no other dogs to teach the dog. Everybody is going to believe what they are doing for there dog is best. If you had watched a family pet goat die of Lepto you may also feel different about the vaccine. I certainly am not going to believe a regular person who has not gone to vet school over my vet that I talked to for over 45 minutes just about Lepto and the vaccine and I will not be made to feel like I am over vaccination my dog and being a terrible pet owner by getting Lepto. Everyone views are different and EVERY one is allowed to post there views on things.

You say that, but you get awfully pissed off when people disagree with you. Don't believe me about lepto, I could care less what you do with your dog. I don't need to watch a goat die to realize lepto is useless and again based on my conversations with board certified internists, the vaccine doesn't cover the emerging serovars. You didn't believe me about bully sticks cracking teeth either so I'm not surprised. You're right EVERYONE can post their opinions and I'm not going to be made to feel bad for purchasing my dogs before 12 weeks of age or conducting business with YTCA or other breeders who choose to depart from the gospel you keep quoting. There will always be a breeder ready to give me a dog and certainly to sell me one. . It's not your business what age someone wants to but a dog at, or from whom. And if I recall correctly, you blasted me for what you thought was double dosing on flea meds but I disregarded your uninformed and erroneous belief.

[gemy]

Taylor life is not so black and white, it is made of shades of grey. THe YTCA recommends a 12wk guideline. It is just that a guideline and a recommendation.

It is still breeders choice to place the puppy when the puppy is ready to go home. Some breeders might keep some pups until 16wks old, some might let go at 10wks. The absolute timing is only one, and only one factor, that goes into creating a reputable breeder.

I admire your passion for the YT, but there is still a wealth of knowledge to slowly accumulate about this breed.

I have learnt something from everyone here. And I continue to learn.

It is a great forum, with many passionate folks. Don't let your passion blind you to other points of view that just might differ from what the YTCA recommends.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by 107barney

You say that, but you get awfully pissed off when people disagree with you. Don't believe me about lepto, I could care less what you do with your dog. I don't need to watch a goat die to realize lepto is useless and again based on my conversations with board certified internists, the vaccine doesn't cover the emerging serovars. You didn't believe me about bully sticks cracking teeth either so I'm not surprised. You're right EVERYONE can post their opinions and I'm not going to be made to feel bad for purchasing my dogs before 12 weeks of age or conducting business with YTCA or other breeders who choose to depart from the gospel you keep quoting. There will always be a breeder ready to give me a dog and certainly to sell me one. . It's not your business what age someone wants to but a dog at, or from whom. And if I recall correctly, you blasted me for what you thought was double dosing on flea meds but I disregarded your uninformed and erroneous belief.

What you see as pissed off is not, its just how your reading it. I can quote the source I use all I want just like every one else does just because you don't like my source of what there saying doesn't make it wrong or false.. If someone brings up age/ says there puppy's age then yeah its out there so can be every ones business. Ignore me if you don't like what I have to say because I will never shut up. Just because you don't agree with something though doesn't mean you can call it misinformation. If you are using two products that contain the exact same flea med in it then that is double dosing if not then its not. I can find a breeder who will sell me a 6 week old teacup too but that doesn't mean its right. Lepto may not cover all strands but it does cover the main strands. Some will always be better then none in my book.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

What you see as pissed off is not, its just how your reading it. I can quote the source I use all I want just like every one else does just because you don't like my source of what there saying doesn't make it wrong or false.. If someone brings up age/ says there puppy's age then yeah its out there so can be every ones business. Ignore me if you don't like what I have to say because I will never shut up. Just because you don't agree with something though doesn't mean you can call it misinformation. If you are using two products that contain the exact same flea med in it then that is double dosing if not then its not. I can find a breeder who will sell me a 6 week old teacup too but that doesn't mean its right. Lepto may not cover all strands but it does cover the main strands. Some will always be better then none in my book.

I too will never shut up. And don't tell me what to do, I'll ignore who I want and respond to who I want. As for Lepto, no it doesn't. Lol, sounds like another convo with your vet is needed.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Taylor life is not so black and white, it is made of shades of grey. THe YTCA recommends a 12wk guideline. It is just that a guideline and a recommendation.

It is still breeders choice to place the puppy when the puppy is ready to go home. Some breeders might keep some pups until 16wks old, some might let go at 10wks. The absolute timing is only one, and only one factor, that goes into creating a reputable breeder.

I admire your passion for the YT, but there is still a wealth of knowledge to slowly accumulate about this breed.

I have learnt something from everyone here. And I continue to learn.

It is a great forum, with many passionate folks. Don't let your passion blind you to other points of view that just might differ from what the YTCA recommends.

I'm not going simply with what they say but by how many people come on here posting about there puppy they got before 12 weeks normally 8 or 9 weeks old having biting problems as well as the ones who have died simply from hypoglycemia. I am also remember those who in posts have said the major differences between there first pup they got at 8 or 9 weeks old and then the one they got at 12 weeks or a little older then 12 weeks and how much easier and less problems the puppy was. Most people who are getting yorkies that we see here that are new have never had a yorkie before and don't have other dogs so they have no idea about hypoglycemia or are yorkie "experts" or have another dog to help teach the puppy things. I prefer 12 weeks for many reasons and I feel there are times it is more important then others but I still feel it is important. Most people have to go to work and I feel a pup under 12 weeks is to young to be left home all alone for 8 hours.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I too will never shut up. And don't tell me what to do, I'll ignore who I want and respond to who I want. As for Lepto, no it doesn't. Lol, sounds like another convo with your vet is needed.

i don't expect you to shut up and I never told you what to do I just suggested if you don't like me or my opinions to ignore them. Yeah I'm not going to argue with you about Lepto anymore its stupid and I trust my vet and I feel like I am doing what is best for my dog just like you feel you are doing what is best by your dog by not getting it! There will always be vets found who are all for Lepto and vets found who are not for it. I to have done my research and it does cover some of the main strands!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

i don't expect you to shut up and I never told you what to do I just suggested if you don't like me or my opinions to ignore them. Yeah I'm not going to argue with you about Lepto anymore its stupid and I trust my vet and I feel like I am doing what is best for my dog just like you feel you are doing what is best by your dog by not getting it! There will always be vets found who are all for Lepto and vets found who are not for it. I to have done my research and it does cover some of the main strands!

I suggest another convo with your vet, and perhaps ask him to contact the specialists who are actually seeing the cases. They can tell him and you what serovars are creeping up in your area so that you know if you're just vaccinating for nothing. I don't need your suggestions on how to use YT, there is a user guide for that and I've been a member since 2008 and know how to use the ignore function.