Canine Caviar The other CC thread was closed before I had a chance to post the source of the information. Here it is: PetDiets PetDiets The links won't make sense unless you read the other thread. I had been wondering how CC could claim that their foods met AAFCO nutrient profile guidelines with a phosphorus value higher than the allowable limit. The AAFCO max is 1.6%. One of CC's formulas is 1.7% min. While looking at their site to get everything straight (was going to ask my dog's nutritionist how this could be possible) I came across something interesting. When clicking on the grain free varieties I went to the feeding guidelines page for each 'flavor'. This is where their statement of AAFCO certification is. I believe it is the Wild Ocean formula that is 1.7% min phosphorus. On the Wild Ocean feeding page it does say it meets AAFCO guidelines. Very confusing since that is not possible. At closer look it reads that their Chicken and Millet food meets AAFCO guidelines. They use their statement from the chicken type for all foods (which is not correct). So it appears that some are not approved but they have decided to make it appear that they are (unless I am missing something). Probably doesn't matter to some, but to others it does. Have a good evening, everyone.:) |
Thanks for the info. What does too much phosphorus do to compromise a dog's health? It is so hard searching for the perfect food. Between worrying about too much protein, too much fat, additives, processing etc etc my head is spinning. I have tried Eukennuba (breeder), Wellness, Taste of the Wild, Orijen, Arcana, Honest Kitchen, Ziwi Peak, Artemis Osopure, Canine Caviar ( he has stopped itching ) I am overwhelmed with what is the best for Buster. |
I was following this thread and actually called the company to ask for samples before I purchased cause Allie is so picky. I saw Riley DC had such great results with his allergies, I thought what the heck. I just googled phosphorus and something about kidney and renal??? They sent me for free ,3 1lbs bags of different flavors. Am i possibly giving Allie that could harm her in the long run? |
My bag of wild Ocean said it had 1.0% Phosphorus... ?? It is no secret and they have been announcing on their FB page that they are in the process of revamping their website and they are not finished just yet so who knows?! |
:confuse8:I found these articles too much phosphorus and too little are both issues :eek: Phosphorus - *Canine Clarity The Calcium, Phosphorus and Vitamin D - *Canine Clarity DogAware.com Health: Non-Prescription Commercial Diets for Dogs with Kidney Disease |
Excess phosphorus probably doesn't affect healthy dogs at all )a vet nutritionist would be able to answer this). It becomes a problem when the dog has kidney disease and the kevel has to be closely watched. It doesn't cause kidney. It needs to be looked at if the dog has kidney disease. BUT as the link above says (by a boarded vet nutritionist), many dogs that appear normal and have normal labs are in the beginnings of renal disease. Those lab values will not ekevate until 50the dog has lost 75% of kidney function. So some feel it is best to not overdo phosphorus in healthy dogs bc you never kniw if there is a subclinical problem. This does not mean that CC is hurting dogs, etc. It means they may be overdoing phosphorus which is not good for dogs with subclinical kidney issues. Some of the formulas have more moderate amounts, however. As for the AAFCO discrepancy, I don't have much to say except it 'appears' that they are trying to make customers think that non AAFCO foods are AAFCO approved. Perhaps that is not their intent, but to me it looks like it may be. And unless I'm feeding a specialized rx diet, I would not feed a food (made in the US) that is not AaFCO approved. Taking that a little further, I prefer to feed foods that have gone through an AAFCO feeding trial, not just a nutrient analysis check. I'm not telling people that they should nit feed CC. Hat is between you and your pups' vets. I think it is great that it helps allergy dogs. It will be some rormlas are fery limited intredient. Here is no one best food and no perfectly safe food. In fact, I think dog food in general is gross. lol. Some vet nutritionists will make commercial food recommndations for a fee if you are having trouble. |
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Thanks for explaining it in simple language!! I know I need to just pay the large amount of $$$ and figure out what she is allergic to , instead of just treating and masking symptoms, but for now this is another shot. |
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it really is enough to make ones head spin!!!! |
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Wow. Thanks for the info now I've got to read through it as soon as my eyes clear. Been online a while, eyes unhappy. |
The closest dermatologist to me that is any good is about 2 hours away and probably 500+ for the visit! Hopefully in the next couple of months I can do this. The last derm cost me 250+ only to say environmental and here's atopica. Which at first she did well on but then started to itch and chew paws again. |
I just purchased the wild ocean for Lexi as she has allergies and licks her little feet all the time and has had some little red splotches like Riley and now I am wondering if I should not give it to her? Always something...ugh:confused: |
I'm not worried about it!! Riley's vet was fine with it. Actually very Happy! :D I took the bag in to him... Riley had been eating the Wild Ocean for two months. |
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That made me smile cause when Allie doesn't want to eat in the morning and I have to go to work, I have to pretend with a piece of foil that I'm going to take it away or start mixing/moving it around in her plate then she will eat! They sent me samples within a week of calling. Aye aye these kids!!! |
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Had a chance to read enough to think this isn't for Tibbe when he comes off Hill's. He's 5 1/2 and I wouldn't want to take a chance of enhancing an early kidney problem yet undiagnosed unless we were desperately fighting misery from wild, protracted itching or something else and the vet, nutritionist and I all agreed it would be worth keeping him more comfortable now and perhaps take a chance with the kidneys - if there were no other, better answers. Thanks again for your information and input. |
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Riley made the Canine Caviar testimonial page!! |
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LOL!! :thumbup: :thumbup: |
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Was just reading one of their brochures/papers (I wouldn't call it a White Paper since it doesn't really source anything) and HOLY CRAP, did you read/see this: Quote from CC: ""A buildup of protein waste products causes kidney or liver damage. High-protein diets often promote foods such as red meat and full-fat dairy products. Some experts believe a diet rich in these foods can increase your risk of heart disease. A high-protein diet may cause liver or kidney problems because the body may have trouble eliminating all the waste products of protein metabolism."" Those bolded parts are absolutely false / wrong. I'm actually shocked they not only put that chronic myth in there, but that *no one* caught it...???!! High protein diets DO NOT cause any liver or kidney damage in dogs or humans. There are a billion journal articles that cover this exhaustively (for humans and dogs); geesh, go to the Mayo Clinic website or any other reliable site and search this issue. Kidneys and livers work the same in humans and dogs. The only time excess protein might be a concern is if there is an already diagnosed health issue specifically tied to protein issues (ie, already diagnosed liver or kidney disease). And on that note, some vets are even saying protein restriction in liver/kidney disease isn't really needed (awesome article, a must read, very journal-sourced): http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/Myths_of_High_Protein.pdf For anyone needing an excellent White Paper about protein in dogs' diets, this one is excellent: http://files.championpetfoods.com/OR...hite_Paper.pdf If such a big mistake is in Canine Caviar's brochure, I'd be really concerned what else is wrong in there. It seems to be such a great food for so many dogs here, but I hope the company really knows what they're doing/saying. That type of oversight/mistake is not good at all :(. Hopefully it's not indicative of larger mistakes and untruths. I hope they correct it. |
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Call it what you will... They are a 5-Star Food in My Book for sure!! :thumbup: :thumbup: |
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BTW: That first Paragraph with some Bolded stuff is Absolutely TRUE!! I have an uncle and a cousin who are both on kidney dialysis. When our bodies digest the protein we eat, the process creates waste products. In the kidneys, millions of tiny blood vessels (capillaries) with even tinier holes in them act as filters. As blood flows through the blood vessels, small molecules such as waste products squeeze through the holes. These waste products become part of the urine. Useful substances, such as protein and red blood cells, are too big to pass through the holes in the filter and stay in the blood. |
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I don't believe in feeding Raw long term, however some do- That is their choice not mine. We all have different opinions and that is fine, I have a different opinion on why this thread was started, but I will keep my mouth shut. Thanks so much for the information Ladies, please let me know what else you find out! |
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:thumbup: :thumbup: Yep! And, Most Vets that I have come across Are Totally Against Feeding RAW. Riley's First Vet, at CityPaws here in the City was absolutely 100% Against Feeding RAW... |
So in my opinion which is just that, my opinion,this food makes me a little nervous. Another member mentioned that Canine Caviar canned variety contained Carrageenan Gum. I personally called the company to ask about this ingredient and got sent all over the place Canine Cavair claims to act like a cancer preventative,it states this on its about us page. But when I researched this ingredient, it seems that this is not a great ingredient and can be cancer causing. I was also hoping to try this for Levi, but have reconsidered. |
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As for why this thread was started, I have never known the OP to be anything but helpful to our dogs, dispense excellent, measured information, advice or opinions and try to get the whole story out about an issue. If there are any downsides to anything that might not be covered on one thread, I hope someone that knows about that, does start another thread to address those. I want to know both the good and the bad. |
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