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-   -   Canine Caviar (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-health-diet/257478-canine-caviar.html)

Ellie May 01-22-2013 04:26 PM

Canine Caviar
 
The other CC thread was closed before I had a chance to post the source of the information. Here it is:

PetDiets
PetDiets

The links won't make sense unless you read the other thread.

I had been wondering how CC could claim that their foods met AAFCO nutrient profile guidelines with a phosphorus value higher than the allowable limit. The AAFCO max is 1.6%. One of CC's formulas is 1.7% min. While looking at their site to get everything straight (was going to ask my dog's nutritionist how this could be possible) I came across something interesting. When clicking on the grain free varieties I went to the feeding guidelines page for each 'flavor'. This is where their statement of AAFCO certification is. I believe it is the Wild Ocean formula that is 1.7% min phosphorus. On the Wild Ocean feeding page it does say it meets AAFCO guidelines. Very confusing since that is not possible. At closer look it reads that their Chicken and Millet food meets AAFCO guidelines. They use their statement from the chicken type for all foods (which is not correct). So it appears that some are not approved but they have decided to make it appear that they are (unless I am missing something).

Probably doesn't matter to some, but to others it does.

Have a good evening, everyone.:)

Buster Brown 01-22-2013 04:35 PM

Thanks for the info. What does too much phosphorus do to compromise a dog's health? It is so hard searching for the perfect food. Between worrying about too much protein, too much fat, additives, processing etc etc my head is spinning. I have tried Eukennuba (breeder), Wellness, Taste of the Wild, Orijen, Arcana, Honest Kitchen, Ziwi Peak, Artemis Osopure, Canine Caviar ( he has stopped itching ) I am overwhelmed with what is the best for Buster.

Little mama 01-22-2013 04:39 PM

I was following this thread and actually called the company to ask for samples before I purchased cause Allie is so picky. I saw Riley DC had such great results with his allergies, I thought what the heck. I just googled phosphorus and something about kidney and renal??? They sent me for free ,3 1lbs bags of different flavors. Am i possibly giving Allie that could harm her in the long run?

RileyDC 01-22-2013 04:48 PM

My bag of wild Ocean said it had 1.0% Phosphorus... ??

It is no secret and they have been announcing on their
FB page that they are in the process of revamping their
website and they are not finished just yet so who knows?!

Buster Brown 01-22-2013 04:54 PM

:confuse8:I found these articles too much phosphorus and too little are both issues :eek:

Phosphorus - *Canine Clarity
The Calcium, Phosphorus and Vitamin D - *Canine Clarity

DogAware.com Health: Non-Prescription Commercial Diets for Dogs with Kidney Disease

Ellie May 01-22-2013 04:55 PM

Excess phosphorus probably doesn't affect healthy dogs at all )a vet nutritionist would be able to answer this). It becomes a problem when the dog has kidney disease and the kevel has to be closely watched. It doesn't cause kidney. It needs to be looked at if the dog has kidney disease.

BUT as the link above says (by a boarded vet nutritionist), many dogs that appear normal and have normal labs are in the beginnings of renal disease. Those lab values will not ekevate until 50the dog has lost 75% of kidney function. So some feel it is best to not overdo phosphorus in healthy dogs bc you never kniw if there is a subclinical problem.

This does not mean that CC is hurting dogs, etc. It means they may be overdoing phosphorus which is not good for dogs with subclinical kidney issues.

Some of the formulas have more moderate amounts, however.

As for the AAFCO discrepancy, I don't have much to say except it 'appears' that they are trying to make customers think that non AAFCO foods are AAFCO approved. Perhaps that is not their intent, but to me it looks like it may be. And unless I'm feeding a specialized rx diet, I would not feed a food (made in the US) that is not AaFCO approved. Taking that a little further, I prefer to feed foods that have gone through an AAFCO feeding trial, not just a nutrient analysis check.

I'm not telling people that they should nit feed CC. Hat is between you and your pups' vets. I think it is great that it helps allergy dogs. It will be some rormlas are fery limited intredient. Here is no one best food and no perfectly safe food. In fact, I think dog food in general is gross. lol. Some vet nutritionists will make commercial food recommndations for a fee if you are having trouble.

Ellie May 01-22-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster Brown (Post 4113647)
:confuse8:I found these articles too much phosphorus and too little are both issues :eek:

Phosphorus - *Canine Clarity
The Calcium, Phosphorus and Vitamin D - *Canine Clarity

[URL="http://dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html"]DogAware.com Health: Non-Prescription Commercial Diets for Dogs with Kidney Disease

Yup, it needs ti be balanced with calcium. I get nervous when companes put foods out there that don't meet guidelines other than the ones they set for themselves. It isn't like human food where we only eat a little of each thing, so composition is gery important (guaranteed anakysis).

Little mama 01-22-2013 05:03 PM

Thanks for explaining it in simple language!! I know I need to just pay the large amount of $$$ and figure out what she is allergic to , instead of just treating and masking symptoms, but for now this is another shot.

RileyDC 01-22-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 4113648)
Excess phosphorus probably doesn't affect healthy dogs at all )a vet nutritionist would be able to answer this). It becomes a problem when the dog has kidney disease and the kevel has to be closely watched. It doesn't cause kidney. It needs to be looked at if the dog has kidney disease.

BUT as the link above says (by a boarded vet nutritionist), many dogs that appear normal and have normal labs are in the beginnings of renal disease. Those lab values will not ekevate until 50the dog has lost 75% of kidney function. So some feel it is best to not overdo phosphorus in healthy dogs bc you never kniw if there is a subclinical problem.

This does not mean that CC is hurting dogs, etc. It means they may be overdoing phosphorus which is not good for dogs with subclinical kidney issues.

Some of the formulas have more moderate amounts, however.

As for the AAFCO discrepancy, I don't have much to say except it 'appears' that they are trying to make customers think that non AAFCO foods are AAFCO approved. Perhaps that is not their intent, but to me it looks like it may be. And unless I'm feeding a specialized rx diet, I would not feed a food (made in the US) that is not AaFCO approved. Taking that a little further, I prefer to feed foods that have gone through an AAFCO feeding trial, not just a nutrient analysis check.

I'm not telling people that they should nit feed CC. Hat is between you and your pups' vets. I think it is great that it helps allergy dogs. It will be some rormlas are fery limited intredient. Here is no one best food and no perfectly safe food. In fact, I think dog food in general is gross. lol. Some vet nutritionists will make commercial food recommndations for a fee if you are having trouble.

:thumbup: :thumbup:
it really is enough to make ones head spin!!!!

Ellie May 01-22-2013 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little mama (Post 4113660)
Thanks for explaining it in simple language!! I know I need to just pay the large amount of $$$ and figure out what she is allergic to , instead of just treating and masking symptoms, but for now this is another shot.

Food allergy testing is a waste of money. Envir testing isn't. An elimination diet with a hydrolyzed protein (rx) diet is generally the fastest way to confirm a food allergy.

yorkietalkjilly 01-22-2013 05:07 PM

Wow. Thanks for the info now I've got to read through it as soon as my eyes clear. Been online a while, eyes unhappy.

Little mama 01-22-2013 05:12 PM

The closest dermatologist to me that is any good is about 2 hours away and probably 500+ for the visit! Hopefully in the next couple of months I can do this. The last derm cost me 250+ only to say environmental and here's atopica. Which at first she did well on but then started to itch and chew paws again.

lexipoo 01-22-2013 05:22 PM

I just purchased the wild ocean for Lexi as she has allergies and licks her little feet all the time and has had some little red splotches like Riley and now I am wondering if I should not give it to her? Always something...ugh:confused:

RileyDC 01-22-2013 05:36 PM

I'm not worried about it!!

Riley's vet was fine with it. Actually very Happy! :D
I took the bag in to him... Riley had been eating
the Wild Ocean for two months.

lexipoo 01-22-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RileyDC (Post 4113692)
I'm not worried about it!!

Riley's vet was fine with it. Actually very Happy! :D
I took the bag in to him... Riley had been eating
the Wild Ocean for two months.

Thanks Theresa that makes me feel better :D I think I might call the their number and see if they can send a couple samples of the other flavors too. I ordered it from Chewy.com and they only have the large bags so it would be great if I could let Lexi try the others too...so happy Riley is doing so well, and have a good feeling it will help Lexi too! She is so finiky honestly, you would not believe what we go through sometimes to get her to eat...from going out side and knocking on the door (she will eat a little because she thinks someone is going to steal her food) or we put on a doggie on TV and she will eat some because she thinks he will steal her food...it's a constant struggle...lol she only weighs a little over 4 lbs and it makes me so nervous when she doesn't eat....but, then again she just turned 4 in November so she must be eating something...LOL


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