No problem. I'm all for safer treatments but need proof. The "Standard" treatments of giving same doses to Great Danes and Yorkies doesn't fit well with me. Need to be weight limits imo

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by using ACV instead. I do know that if it is a replacement for the parvo vaccine, there could be horrible consequences. This is not standard of care, is not supported by most vets, and is not scientifically proven. It seems to be based on anecdotal evidence which should be extensively questioned.

Even if we are talking about doing one year boosters and then using ACV in lieu of yearly vaccines, I'm not sure what the point would be. Dogs can get parvo even if vaccinated, but that is not common, So I trust that the vaccines that my dogs have received are protective and there are no further steps I need to take to stop them from getting the disease. And no, I don't vaccinate yearly...nor do I trust breeder given vaccines for many reasons.

And it is commonly transmitted from feces to mouth. ACv on the skin could not prevent this.

That why I said you need to trust the Breeder. It's simple to give shots. You can get simple training. Ppl give themselves shots all the time.= Diabetes, antibiotics ect. Not hard. You just need to know and trust that the breeder is doing this. There's alot of good breeders but the not as many as the bad. JME

i think it is a matter of doing what you're comfortable with. Giving SQ injections and SQ fluids is not hard. I have done both for my dog. I would personally have all breeder given vaccinations redone in most cases. It does not have to do with trust for me. It has to do with veterinary medicine and who is or is not practicing it.

True. But giving vaccination is very easy. Starting a lawn mower or driving a car is harder imo. So you get the dilemma of over vaccinating or hoping the breeder did it right:confused::confused::eek::eek:

Yup. The least of my concerns would be putting the needle in.
I would sooner overvaccinate unless maybe I could get the brand, the supplier, the temp ept at/shipped at, the exam findings right before the vaccine, a statement from the vet that breeder knew exactly what they were doing, etc. And I'd still really hesitate. I'd ask breeder not to do this and instead take pup to a vet.

Nope I also givr ACV in their water.
No parvo boosters given here, none of dogs were with me prior to their pups shots so they all got the initial parco vac.

I do give ACV instead of boosters, like I said we only do the rabies vac once every three years as it is mandatory.

Confessiona of a vaccine junkie is an excellent read, to each their own make informed descisions weighing your risks.

Wish there was more research.

My first pup was vacinated and later in veterinary ICU and atill died of parvo.

I'm not saying anything against the innitial pups shots, I've necer had experience making or thinking about that descision.

I would want a vet who follows the Dodd schedule at least after reading about it on YT

To each their own. ?giving one vaccine is not necesarily protective. And not doing vaccines passed about six months of age is also not necessarily protecive. Some brands are not trustworthy.

Last I knew Dodds recommended nosodes for heartworm preventation and has some other opinions that are questionable. Again, to each their own. I personally don't follow her persay..but even she does not recommend just puppy vaccines as far as I know.

Well if you give shots. You know the shot package has a supplier,serial # and expiration date. And a sticker to put on all the puppies individual health records. My pup came with all this information and a Bill of health from the vet. wellness exam of the bitch checks for common genetic defects ect... Good breeders put alot into there dogs. My breeder had 5 in the litter and only sold 2. they breed for themselves. Not to sell. So I truly believe they put alot of effort into having healthy dogs . JME/JMO

Obviously, you are misreading...I would want PUPPY s**ts on Dodds schedule not too early not combination etc...however I ONLY do rabies boosters, I do not follow Dodd..I follow vac junkie and holicic homeopathic methods unless legalities warrent otherwise.

Thank you all for the info and the links. Going to shop around for a new Vet.

Some breeders do put a lot into their dogs. There is no question about that. Sticker or no sticker, it does not supply all the information I would want. And it also means the probability of missed exams is high. I just do not believe this is an area where a breeder should try to cut costs even if that means passing the cost to the buyer. There are many variables with vaccines and
i would want a vet firectly overseeing the process.

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As for DoddsI'm not saying that I disagree with her protocol or that I agree with it. I'm saying she holds enugh beliefs that are questionable that what she says on any topic I will extensively question. I don't care what other oeople do for their dogs. But since there are opinions in this thread about vaccinations that I find very concerning, I am posting the other way to look at things.

I agree to the point dogs should have all the "needed" shots the first year. Boosters can be spread out and not every year. The vaccinations became the norm for dogs because they were dying from diseases. But for some vets its a way to make $$. If the breeder has proven to give the pups shots. I wouldn't get more to soon. the Shots can be deadly themselves and many dogs do get bad reactions from them. I find that when you do something yourself you put more care into it. If i was going to build a house I would over build it. Better than any professional Home builder. They will do the minimum requirements. If I was to care for dogs I would give the extra. Because I would do it for love of the dog. Some Vets lose this and it just a way to make $$. Just like having your first child. You was everything that it touches. After the third you just brush it off. I'm not talking skipping exams. My dog has 2 exams before it was 11 weeks. I can see a breeder saving cost when it can. It all adds up when you have multiple dogs. Breeding and showing dogs cost alot more than you make. There alot of stuff you can find by over vaccinating.= auto-immune system disorders, allergies and even cancer. If one truly is worried they should have blood drawn before and test before the vaccinate. I'm going to research my Vet's and see how easy this is. May cost a little more but to me it would be worth it. JMO

i would not vaccinate yearly. Actually, my yorkie has not been vaxed for DHP in several years. My dog did have a severe reaction to a vaccine and I do soetimes see reactions when spending time at veterinary hospitals.

Breeders really should have inj benadryl and steoids on hand which I doubt most do.

I no longer do titers because of. the discrepancy of humoral vs cellular immunity and what shows with testing. They were a waste of money for us.

[quote=Ellie May;3984337]i would not vaccinate yearly. Actually, my yorkie has not been vaxed for DHP in several years. My dog did have a severe reaction to a vaccine and I do soetimes see reactions when spending time at veterinary hospitals.

Breeders really should have inj benadryl and steoids on hand which I doubt most do.

I no longer do titers because of. the discrepancy of humoral vs cellular immunity and what shows with testing. They were a waste of money for us.[/QUO I so agree that vets shouls be the only ones giving vaccinations.

I know many breeders and owners feel otherwise but I think only a medical professional should give injections dock tails crop ears or remove dew claws if for nothing else having the needed materials for a what if readily availible

fwiw a monkey can give shots. If you ever had a shot what the difference? Take a day class and you can have somebody give them to you.

Exactly...as someone who went tgrough daily then weekly blood draws for a year I can attest to just about any one being able to get a flibotomy certification, I alwats say uou get one poke and it better not bruise me, I have rancher family &I friends who give their own vacs to all livestock.

I'm just saying IMHO its not the poking its the injection of highly dangerous materials that concerns me.

It's phlebotomy. And monkeys don't draw blood. Phlebotomists do. Phlebotomists do not administer shots. Shots are either intramuscular or subcutaneous. Phlebotomists must hit a vein. If you hit a vein during a shot, you've done it wrong. So having a phlebotomy certification has nothing to do with administering shots.

And, while we are talking about ACV, it does noy say on the link that it's a cure for parvo.... It states:


Apple cider vinegar has excellent antibacterial and antifungal properties that give the immune*system a good boost, arming your dog with the strength to ward*off pests like fleas and ticks and also diseases like parvo virus in dogs and parvo in puppies.


It never says to use it as a cure or as a preventative. It says to use it as an antibacterial and anti fungal which makes no sense because parvo is a VIRUS. That's like prescribing an antibiotic for a cold. In fact, the page I pulled the above from has a link about parvo and they even suggest getting your dog vaccinated.

Hmmm bad link google it acv killa parvo on surfaces same as anomia.

[QUOTE=McheleM;3984607]It's phlebotomy. And monkeys don't draw blood. Phlebotomists do. Phlebotomists do not administer shots. Shots are either intramuscular or subcutaneous. Phlebotomists must hit a vein. If you hit a vein during a shot, you've done it wrong. So having a phlebotomy certification has nothing to do with administering shots.[/QUOTE

Thanks for correcting my spelling! Cnonaidering I dropped the course go figure...notice tgwre was implied sarcasm in my analogy of those who draw blood...and no use of the word monkey made by me...I guess some analogies are too much of a strech for some people to apply...

Nevermind...the USDA has banned any such clains of any disease or illness being cured by ACV so all sites promoting such can only make vlains now on its aiding or potentially benneficial qualitues...they cannot use the word cure or make claims if it being an effective cleaning agent that kills the parvo ir anyother virus or bacteria, it can only be noted as having antibacterial qualities.

Curently the USDA also literally owns the word organic and many previiusly labled orgabic mothers avc are now being relabled not specifying organic unless they have been evaluated to making only USDA evaluated statements on its usage...not sure why but there are some FDA law suits between acv manufacturers.

I have personal experience with a parvo puppy. He spent 10 days at the vet and we thought we would lose him. When you google parvo and how to "kill it", bleach pops up. There are antiviral sprays you can purchase as well. Ammonia doesn't kill it either according to google. Anyone can always find something online to prove their point, however it doesn't make the I formation accurate and true.

I've read where you can use ACV to kill group beta strep in pregnant women too, but it doesn't mean I would ever suggest to a GBS+ pregnant woman to skip on the antibiotics and use the ACV instead.

I get being natural. We are mostly natural, but common sense comes into play as well. Someone told me to quit eating red meat and to drink some kind of herbal tea to get rid of cancer. My research tells me otherwise. Common sense says to go with what works and what is proven.

Okay then...well whatever I beleive in ACV.
As far as the other claims they just sound so silly common sense should prevail on that.
For the record I passed on radiation therapy and took a nonfda approved treatment to cure my cancer after chemo drugs andfor surgeries failed me twice.

Congratulations.

I don't think there is a point to this any longer, but whatever.

It is not simply sticking the needle in. That line of thinking is part of the reason why I think breeders should not be allowed to do it. It is ignoring the anatomical, physiological, biochemical, immunological, toxicological, and pharmacological aspects of the process. If a vet trusts a breeder and believes they have enough knowledge to vaccinate, that is fine. That does not necessarily mean that I will also trust said breeder. I've read about breeders given vaccines on YT after learning from their vet - and their medical knowledge really concerns me. I'm also fairly certain that most don't keep injectible Benadryl or steroids on hand because these things are rx only.

I give certain injectibles to my dog and am trusted by her vet. And I still do not vaccinate my dogs. I do not see the point. I'd rather have a vet on site when these types of drugs are given.

Well, I guess if a monkey can do it, I should not waste my time applying to vet school. I'll just go spend my time learning in the primate enclosure at the zoo.

I too will never be giving vaccines to my pups. I do at times do certain injectables...but not vaccines. My education and background have helped me understand that it is not in my pups' best interest. While vaccine reactions are indeed rare, they can occur and I am not going to have anything like that happen on my watch in my home. Sure, a monkey can stick in a needle in, but can a monkey save my pups life? Not a chance .. even I could not do that. Best left to the professionals imo.

To each his own...as for breeders doing it, it is about bottom line (money) and that concerns me greatly....but, I am not in the market for a puppy so I won't be dealing with it firsthand.

I don't think vaccines are anything to monkey around with. And, there is no indication that a breeder is or is not a good one simply because he/she is administering the vaccines rather than a vet. It also has no bearing on whether the breeder is putting a lot into their dogs or not. Some may be, but others be cutting corners to maximize profit margins.

Okay, I'm going to have to disagree with you once again...:)...go to school! :thumbup:

Although, having the ability to throw pooh at people and get away with it-I can see the appeal! :D