Before spending hundreds of dollars on this, please do your homework.
 

Why would anyone want to spend $250.00 for a Vet. to send "your" vet. a dog diet? Then an additional $100.00 for a second dog. Please read VERY carefully........the Vet. is NOT an expert on dog nutrition! They only go by what is currently found to be ok for the dog. Read "exactly" what kind of checking they do first. Is this enought to make it worth the VERY high price: "This fee covers product research, review of medical information and a diet formulation. It also covers all questions you may have about our diet recommendations".

Save your money and put it into food for your family and pet. Go on line and check out recipes for dogs. Buy the book by Dr. Pitcairn's COMPLETE GUIDE TO NATURAL HEALTH FOR DOGS @ CATS.
I don't use any of the recipes in this book, but it's a power house. Here are some of the chapters:
1. We Need a New Approach to Pet Health Care
2. What's Really in Pet Food
3. Try a Basic Natural Diet........with Supplements
4. Easy-to-Make Recipes for Pet Food
5. Special Diets for Special Pets
6. Helping Your Pet Make the Switch
7. Exercise, Rest, and Natural Grooming
8. Creating a Healthier Environment
9. Choosing a Healthy Animal
10. Emotional Connections and Your Pet's Health
11. Neighborly Relations: Responsible Pet Management
12. Lifestyles: Tips for Special Situations
13. Saying Good-Bye: Copint with a Pet's Death
14. Holistic and Alternative Therapies
15. How to Care for a Sick Animal

QUICK REFERENCE

Common Pet Ailments and Their Treatments
Abscesses
Addison's Disease
Allergies
Anal Gland Problems
Anemia
Appetite Problems
Arthritis
Behavior Problems
Bladder Problems
Breast Tumors
Cancer
Constipation
Cushing's Disease
Dental Problems
Diabetes
Diarrhea and Dysentery
Distemper, Chorrea, and Feling Panleukopenia
Ear Problems
Epilepsy
Eye Problems
Feline Immunodeficiency Virus (FIV)
Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP)
Feline Leukemia (FeLV)
Foxtails
Hair Loss
Heart Problems
Heartworms
Hip Dysplasia
Jaundice
Kidney Failure
Liver Problems
Lyme Disease
Pancreatitis
Paralysis
Pregnancy, Birth, and Care of Newborns
Rabies
Radiation Toxicity
Reproductive Organ Problems
Skin Parasites
Skin Problems
Spaying and Neutering
Stomach Problems
Thyroid Disorders
Toxoplasmosis
Upper Respiratory Infections ("Colds")
Vaccinations
Vomiting
Warts
Weight Problems
West Nile Virus
Worms
Handling Emergencies and Giving First Aid
Schedule for Herbal Treatment
Schedule for Homeopathic Treatment
Additional Recipes, Snacks and Treats
Normal Vital Sign Values
Parts of a Dog and Cat

I take huge issue with your post because I know what site you are referring to. The consulting veterinarian is a world renowned expert on dog nutrition and a respected member of the ACVN. Please double check your facts because you are incorrect about the credentials of the site owner.

The money spent is well worth the nutrition consult. I've done the consults and they include a thorough review of the dog's medical history amongst other things.

Your constant disparagement of the very good advice I and others give here to consult with professionals who are experts in the field in favor of self-help quackery is tiresome, and you should know better. Your diet isn't balanced and the book you reference is laughable at best. I have read them all.

People who really care about their dogs will pay the fee and leave the guesswork to others.

I would spend DOUBLE that if it came to that to have the opinion of an expert. I believe you are referring to Dr. Remillard. Below are her credentials. If it is indeed her that you are referring to, I am not sure how you think she is not qualified.


Dr. Rebecca L. Remillard
Dr. Remillard has been awarded B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition from three different US Universities. She earned a Doctorate of Veterinary Medicine from the Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine in 1987 and became a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition in 1991. She completed a Postdoctoral Fellowship in Surgical Nutrition at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in 1993. She has been the Senior Staff Nutritionist since 1993 at the MSPCA Angell Animal Medical Center in Boston, a major metropolitan referral hospital serving more than 40,000 dog and cat cases annually.
Dr. Remillard is founder and president of Veterinary Nutritional Consultations, which has been incorporated in Massachusetts since 1993. There are approximately sixty individuals in the world with the combined qualifications of a Ph.D. in animal nutrition, a D.V.M., and Board Certification by the American College of Veterinary Nutrition (DACVN). Her interests primarily lie in the area of nutrient utilization as altered by disease processes. She continues to train veterinary students, interns, residents and provide continuing education to practitioners on the subject of canine and feline nutrition at international conferences.

She served on the Executive Board of the American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition (Home) (1999 to 2005) and the American College of Veterinary Nutrition (American College of Veterinary Nutrition) (2000 to 2006). She is considered a legal expert in the field of clinical pet nutrition, has conducted numerous clinical studies at several universities in the actual use of nutritional pet products, and has authored more than 50 publications in the field of nutrition for veterinarians. She has co-edited editions of a major nutrition textbook, Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, for veterinarians and veterinary students. These textbooks have since been translated into five languages for worldwide distribution. Dr. Remillard has extensive relationships with professionals in veterinary medicine. She has been conversing regularly with veterinarians worldwide as a Nutritional Consultant on the Veterinary Information Network since 1997, and therefore has a wide network of resources and experiences in the practice of veterinary clinical nutrition, which she brings to each individual consultation.
------------

My Cookie is on a homecooked diet that a vet nutrionist in Houston put her on. I happily paid her fee and my Cookie's life is being saved because of that diet! She has lymphangectasia and I would never trust a lay person to tell me what to feed her since I know that would probably kill her. WhatEVER that vet charged, I would happily pay.

I have a dog with epilepsy and there is no diet to help with epilepsy according to his neurologist.

www.petdiets.com
 

One more thing - please don't mislead.

The fees you quoted are for a SICK dog needing a customized diet from a professional. If your dog does not have medical problems then it is only $25 for the first diet, and $12 for each additional diet if purchased at the same time. I cant think of a much cheaper way to go quite frankly. The vast majority of pet owners who want to safely and scientifically home cook for their pets with a level of assurance that the diet is balanced properly can benefit from this very inexpensive $25 fee.

As for sick pets, I can't think of a better way to spend $250 if there is a sick pet who needs the proper help. My own dog Daisy has had an entire life changing and life saving experience from this veterinary nutritionist and she has saved me a lot of money, heartache and saved my dog from suffering as she was the one with answers when medical help couldn't meet her needs...and believe me, there were many experts and fees paid before this one.

Last I checked, $250 for an expert veterinary opinion was fair game. And most don't discount for a second pet! Obviously, there will always be people who are philosophically opposed to paying for expert opinions and want to do it their own lay person way but for those who don't there are very valid and reliable options out there such as this site. I recommend Welcome to Pet Diets to anyone who has a healthy pet or a sick pet in both cases I have personally used the service and am a highly satisfied customer.

All of us here have every right to voice our opinions as often as we want, and I will continue to try and help people save money and also to see that feeding dogs real food as opposed to commercial kibble is safer and healthier without all the added risks we see in the ever increasing recalls, and we all have the right to take what we need from them without the bashing some inflict.
I wrote that company and ask if there were experts in that field and where they got their degree. This is all I got in return:

You asked:

Are any of you "experts" on dog nutrition, and if so, where did you get your degree? I've been checking everywhere and have never found anyone who is an expert in this field.

Our Answer:

Please see the information on our "about us" and "founder" page.


Please send any reply or additional questions to: Petdiets@att.net

Rebecca Remillard, Ph.D., D.V.M., DACVN

And when I did check this out, this is what I found, and this only:

https://www.petdiets.com/Consult/default.asp

Now if you can read more into this, then let us know what it is.

I did not spend all this time typing out good information to deliberately upset anyone and I resent the implication. I will continue to post my concerns, and since they upset you, then don't open them.

Yes, and if you click on founder on that page you will find what I posted above regarding her credentials.

Here....this makes it easier:

http://www.petdiets.com/about/aboutvnc.asp

http://www.petdiets.com/about/aboutfounder.asp

The other day I posted a vet nutrionist from A&M...perhaps you missed his information. I will go find his and post it here. There are many experts in the field of animal nutrition. :)

Did you not see this on the website?
https://www.petdiets.com/about/aboutfounder.asp

And did you miss the part about it being $25? Your book surely must have cost about that, no?

This is Dr. John Bauer from Texas A&M. I have personally used him in the past for one of my pups that was in renal failure.

John E Bauer

Everyone needs to remember that sometimes a penny saved is a dollar lost. You really have to be careful when trying to save money especially when it comes to medical care for yourself or your pups. Often the cheap way out may end up costing more in medical treatments. I am not saying that all cost saving methods are unwise; but I do think that it is wise to really think long and hard about choices. Do your research and don't just believe anyone who comes along with advice.

Excellent advice :thumbup::thumbup:

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish can really cost you your bottom dollar in the end!

I see nothing outrageous about charging $25 for others to benefit from Dr Remillard's educational background and pet nutritional knowledge!

:thumbup:

Thanks for posting this! I didn't know about this book or the author, downloading it from amazon now. I am a firm believer in holistic/natural approach to healthy living (don't consider it "quackery" at all) and have benefited tremendously in my own personal health, and am on the side of believing we are drugging/vaccinating our furbabies/ ( canine and feline) waaaay too much and as a result they are developing more diseases, sicknesses, neuro issues than ever before. One only has to look in the S & I Forum here to see how many "issues" just so happen after a week or two or so after having vaccines/shots administered.... sorry I am rambling, ugh
Anyway, I looked up Dr. PitCairn and it seems he also has impressive credentials in his field and in fact is highly regarded by many traditional vets, and he was very involved in studies related to the effect vaccines have on our furry friends.
I think it is fair for each individual to read, research, talk, study and to come to their own conclusions on what we choose for our "kids".
This isn't about spending money or not for me, its about choosing what I believe is the best for MY babies.
Here is his credentials:
Dr. Pitcairn Bio | ANHC Education Programs

and another interesting read from another DVM:Timeless Spirit Magazine

To each their own.

I see nothing wrong with somebody who has DVM, PhD, MS, plus a Hopkins surgical nutrition fellowship charging $250 to create a highly specialized diet for a sick pet. In fact, it seems it bit low to me. That said, she is my dog's nutritionist and I have never paid near that amount. Both having a vet consult her instead or contacting her at her job site is a cheaper way to go. And for healthy animals it is only $25.

Many people on YT like Dr. Pitcairn. Again, to each their own. I do have his book (an older edition). Some of the advice in it just doesn't appeal to me and I will never accept this kind of thing for my furkids.

Because the book is old, I'm sure he has changed his mind on some things as veterinary medicine has advanced (like feeding onions, for instance). But there are some other things that really bother me. Some ways he suggests to cut costs are to feed vegetable cores and peelings, use bug infested grain, use slightly spoiled meat for dogs, and use leftover cereals, sandwiches, casseroles, gravies, etc. The recipes look fairly high in fat to me and there is no guaranteed analysis with them (so we don't know the % protein or fat in these diets).

So my opinion is that people turn to those who have spent years of their lives obtaining nutrition education, who have done peer reviewed studies of their own, who are highly respected among most veterinarians, and who are able to produce for exact recipes.

Hmmm, since I work for my money and pay my own bills, I can spend however much I want on what I want.

When you take care of my family and my pets, then you get an opinion on how I spend my money.

By the way, I found a much cheaper alternative to a mastectomy and chemotherapy.....there's a guy on craigslist who said he'll do my surgery for half the cost of that board certified Dr, and he can get some chemo meds online and save me a ton of money. I should probably save some money and go that route, right????

Do you and I'll do me
 

I dont usually get involved in heated debates but I'm going to go ahead and jump in this one. I have Dr Pitcairn's book and I settled on that after I fed a variety of so called premium food to my dog and he wind up having elevated liver enzymes. Half of the crap I fed him is now being recalled, I am beyond pissed. My vet probably isnt too thrilled that the vets at the university recommended this book. He wanted me to feed Giorgio Royal Canin, I told him no thanks, I have had enough.

Funny thing is after I started the home cooked recipes in this book, the once a month diarrhea, bad breath, and eye gook went away. Not only that, when I had his blood work checked again 6 weeks after eating a home diet, his liver enzymes went back within normal range. Its amazing how feeding food that hasnt had dyes and etc placed in it can bring a change in your dog. Nope, I'm not recommending everyone do it, thats your personal choice. I dont care what you do, I know what works for mine and I did do my research.

I love how some people equate holistic with "quackery". Funny how I dont remember Moses pulling up to a Walgreens to get a prescription for depression. People who blindly believe what anyone tells them without research isnt too bright.

Its kinda how the Dr told me 4 years ago, that my youngest son needs to be on Foculin for his ADHD, never mind the fact that kids are dying and sick from this crap. I went ahead and rolled the dice and tried it. My son was depressed, lost weight and cried about everything, I threw that **** out the window and never looked back. I'll have that doctor to know that my son now is an A student and isnt on that garbage he prescribed.

It also reminds me of how my Dr was convinced I needed to be on Prilosec for acid reflux, I gave it a shot, I should have listened to my better judgement, they say brittle bones is a side effect, I will have you to know that is the least of your worries. I started having chest pain and wind up going to the ER for what I was sure was a heart attack. Luckily I was fine. His recommendation I wasnt taking enough of the Prilosec. Oh really? I went home did some research. Turns out chamomille, lavender and catnip are pretty nice remedies for acid reflux and I dont have all the nasty side effects.

My point of this long post is simple, do your homework and dont think because someone, anyone has letters behind their name, they know it all, the people above had MD behind theirs, they were wrong. After reading countless stories of sick pets and what really goes in dog food, I have to believe there lies some truth in it.

The FDA is in it for the money, not to help you. They also want you to believe that the side effects of medication is in your best interest. I dont know if you're already depressed, the last thing you need is to be on something that makes you feel worse. Hell my grandmother was prescribed a medication where the first side effect was DEATH. Oh, ok. I told not to take that medicine, she's still alive. There is a reason why most ailments like AIDS and cancer has no known cure, the money is in the medicine, not the cure. Why cure you when they can make thousands off medication. I have watched two people I love die from cancer and it breaks my heart. My dad and my aunt should still be here right now.

After watching a documentary on what goes in human food, you will really have a hard time convincing, pet food is being made in these factories on the up and up. Thats just my take on it, take what need if any and leave the rest.

I think you missed the point of this thread....
There is no debate. The issue here is that the OP didn't do her homework, after telling others they should do theirs. She grossly misrepresented the website and its respected founder. When she asked that website owner for their credentials and their educational background, she claimed they were not nutritional experts and failed to look at the very impressive credentials that were found right within the website where she was directed to go. Re-read the early posts and you can follow along.

Furthers, she misrepresented pricing by acting like all visitors to the site need spend $250 when in fact the vast majority of visitors can spend $25.

By the way, the reference to quackery was not at all related to the book or to holistic approaches. To each their own. But, I will correct misinformation as I see it in an effort to help others to do things right.

I understand, I know some people get very agitated and heated when the food debate comes up. There was a post on here that stated, Dr Pitcairn, endorsed spoiled meat, sandwiches etc, I have the latest edition of the book, I have not seen anything like that at all. I know we all love our babies and some methods work better than others. I fully endorse a home cooked diets with supplements, I dont force it on others but I do encourage other dog owners I know to educate themselves on it. With all the food recalls that are out, it is getting scary.

What is too much depends on each person's resources. I see your post with good eyes. There's nothing wrong with getting educated about what's best for your pet. And many of us don't have the resources to spend an extravagant amount while we could find a decent nutritional plan just by researching.

I don't know what vet is being discussed here, I just know that, while there's some good vets somewhere, many are inept too. Healt care of our babes should be a synchronized relationship with vet & animal-owner. We need to get educated, listen to suggestions & make own decisions.

You just have to find what works for you and your pet and no one has the right to tell you your way is wrong or quackery

Well I do know the vet being discussed here as she saved my dog's life. My beautiful dog is turning 12 next month and I could never thank her enough or pay her enough for that. As for resources, it's really a matter of priorities, isn't it? Extravagant? $25? Really? If that's truly what one believes then if I'd my opinion they should own a goldfish and not a dog.

I find it a moral obligation to tell people things that are incorrect in an effort to help them, and done times pointing out quackery helps them receive the accurate information. It's an open forum and everyone has a right to their opinion. What I don't think people have a right to do is attack a vet when they have their facts entirely wrong!

I agree the attacks shouldnt have been both ways I dont agree with the titling of the thread either because I believe if somebody wants to pay whatever for a nutritionalist well thats their business and no one elses

I disagree that attacks went both ways. The vet writing the book being promoted isn't a nutritionist and his diets aren't scientifically balanced like a vet nutritionist balaces them. That's fact, not attack.

Thanks for the link. The $250 quoted covers dogs that have a medical condition, and/or dogs that are intact..... Funny to me that I need to pay quite a bit more for a diet for an intact dog.

I'm going to email them to see why.

The caloric intake for intact dogs may be higher. She may have to calculate manually for those dogs. That's a professional service with a professional price. But I'm not sure what her reason is, and am curious as to her answer. But it doesn't apply to me as all my dogs are altered.

Thanks for the link 107barney. My pups have no issues so far (whew!) but this is definatley worth looking into.

I home cook for one of my pups that I got from another vet nutritionist. She has lymphangectasia and I felt that home cooked diet would be best for her..she is thriving on it! She was diagnosed in December and is doing great! Diet is key in this condition.
Since watching her, I have gone to the above mentioned site for recipes for my healthy pups. I have yet to start them on it, but it is in my plans for them.

Linda how different are the recipes -the medical condition versus the regular diet?

I'm thinking about this for my cat, and my other two dogs. I'm hoping to use the same base meat, for the dogs, and then the "other ingredients" can be different. I'm just trying to figure out time wise, what I'm getting myself into.

When Zoey was sick, it was quite time intensive to cook for her separately from my other two dogs. Just remember that the big dogs eat about 2lbs of food a day each:D:D

They are different because the needs are. So you really do have to do them separately. Some of the ingredients are the same...some different. My Cookie is on Tilapia but it was not an option for my young healthy pups ( I think because of fat but I don't know???) . I am not really good with nutrition...that is why I rely on the vet nutritionists. Even if I did feel more knowledgable about it, I would still rely on their expertise.

It really is time consuming, but omg my Cookie is doing SO well.. I also home cooked a few years ago for my Cody who was in the end stages of renal failure. He did well on that diet.

My pups all vary in weights...and it is so hard for me to regulate the amount of kibble. I have found that with Cookie's diet, she stays right around the same weight. It's awesome! That is part of the reason I want to cook for the others...I will know exactly how much they need to maintain their ideal body weight.

Oh...but yeah...your pups are HUGE. hahhaha Lots of work there. :D