Anyone feeding Raw?
 

Hi - hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and is ready to start an amazing New Year.
We have decided to start the new year with a change of food and are looking for advice.
Bridget started an itching marathon in the summer and we've been battling it for the last 6 months. Originally our vets said it was an allergic reaction to fleas. We had a flea issue which took several months to resolve. Both girls were on flea meds but for some reason nothing seemed to totally get rid of them. We had the house treated twice and are finally "flea free" and have been for 2 months....but the itching hasn't stopped for Bridget....Making me wonder if the fleas were the issue to begin with or it was just an easy diagnosis. The vets put Bridget on steroids so there has been some weight gain and she seems to have skin issues - for which the vet gave (sold) me a special shampoo - which doesn't seem to help. She also was sounding like a little kid with a cold and a stuffed nose, and chewing/licking her paws.
I had always fed the girls cooked chicken breast (boneless/skinless) with green beans, along with some kibble, Lifes Abundance was the last kibble she was on. We quit the Life's Abundance and put her on Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato. She wasn't thrilled as I think she missed the meat - and you just can't buy venison in the stores :( So we thought we'd try Bison and sweet potato (Limited ingredient diet). And I was able to buy bison here in the stores (at about $12 a pound)...she loves it - her stuffiness cleared up - but is still itching. I understand it can take months for a total change to be noticed.
My sister in law is a huge advocate of Raw and has had me reading about it - it sounds perfect - but I'd like to hear from others who have tried and either liked or disliked the raw. I'm leaning toward the frozen brands....Bravo!, Primal, Natures Variety, Honest Kitchen - but will prepare at home if necessary.
I've talked to several people who said they liked it and that it was wonderful - but if it's so great - why are we all not doing it? There must be some con's as well as pros and I need to hear them all.
Thanks in advance to everyone for any and all the comments. I've tried to search but am only finding posts from years ago - I'm hoping for some recent comments.
Thanks again -

I’m not all that convinced it safe for Yorkies. Studies show that athletic dogs react to cholesterol differently than couch potatoes, and raw usually is all meat and bones so it has lots of cholesterol. What does that do to the heart over time? I don’t think it’s all that natural either, wolves in the wild eat the stomach contents of the prey, and most prey are vegetarians so they wolf is getting some grain. Also, the strongest and most aggressive get the best and the smaller more docile get what’s left over and this makes evolutionary sense given what studies show about how athletic dogs use cholesterol differently.

My concern for Joey is not to find the best food, but a good healthy food that has been tested for safety. That’s really all I want for myself, I don’t need to eat the best food, I need to eat good healthy food. Also, I’m concerned about the meat they use in raw. Lots of meat has hormones added and even if the raw food company doesn’t use hormones and only uses organic meat, chances are they use a slaughtering company where both types of animals are slaughtered. One study I read, said that the organic meat had as many hormones as the non-organic meat because it was contaminated from the slaughter house. Cooking destroys hormones, but with raw there’s no cooking and I’m not sure what an overabundance of hormones can do long term, but it is thought to be dangerous, and there is evidence to suggest it can lead to disease.

I might give raw a chance if I had a large breed very active dog, and I think prey model would be something I might try. I don’t think prey model is safe for small dogs, too much of a choking hazard and intestinal blockage problem. Lots of people do it and are very happy with it. Another option, that some people like, is grinding you own food, and then you would at least have a choice to wash the meat off and make sure it had little surface bacteria and hormones. Even better is some people have access to hunters, and you could safely process the meat if you’re so inclined. I would never feel that safe with the store bought frozen patties; I guess I don’t have that much confidence in dog food companies. Ten years from now, we’ll know much more about the raw debate, but it does have some safety issue that concern me, I really want the safest food, not the best.

I used to feed raw but became dissatisfied with the quality of meat I had access to.

Did you try using Revolution to help with the itchies?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I agree with Nancy. I have a friend that has been feeding her Iggy Prey Model raw. She got a nasty bacterial infection and was super sick. My friend thinks maybe she had a bad batch of meat she was feeding at the time.. However, she is not really sure what caused it. She does still feed it and so far so good.

For me personally I have never been comfortable feeding raw. I read about it but it wasn't for me. She has horrible food allergies and was just diagnosed with Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth or (SIBO) so I have to be so careful with what she eats.

I have to say, Prescription Diets have completely done wonders for Taycie. I was at my wits end trying to find something that would help with her itchy skin and runny eyes and sensitive stomach. With in weeks of her new diet, I noticed she had eyelashes were growing back. She is also completely tear stain free since July since I have using her RX diet. If I do decided to change her diet I would be Homecooking for her and contacting a Board Certified Nutritionist.

I've been feeding Lexie prey model for 6 months now and have never looked back. Positives i've noticed are a softer/shinier coat, huge reduction in eye boogies, smaller poops that are almost odorless- this is a big factor for me it shows that her body is utilizing more from what she is eating. She is fed a natural diet of whole fresh human grade meat/bone/organs that i prepare for her so i know exactly what she is eating. No by products, no fillers, no over processing, no chemicals just fresh meat much of which is grass fed. Not to mention all that lovely crunching she does on bones will keep her teeth pearly white.

You would have to decide whether you want to follow a barf or prey model diet. Barf feeders believe wolves in the wild eat the stomach
contents of their prey while prey model feeders believe that they don't. Research shows that they will generally consume all but the hide, some of the large bones and skull and the rumen (stomach contents of ungulates) of their prey.
However veggies should be lightly cooked/finely chopped/pureed if you wish to go the Barf route. Taken from Orijen White Paper "For dogs and cats, a Biologically Appropriate food would include a variety of fresh meats in a high-protein, moderate fat and low-carbohydrate diet." Raw animal fat is good for dogs and I have learned that cholesterol is generally not an issue.

Why are we not all feeding raw? Many people are paranoid when it comes to feeding raw meat. Another reason is the convenience of kibble. Many vets don't know much about it, aren't educated in that area and therefore dont recommend it - they have much more to gain by pushing foods like Science Diet. Or in few cases a dog's health problems might interfere with a raw diet. All in all it's not my business what others choose to feed because we all make the choices we see best for our pets. After all i used to feed kibble myself, both Orijen and Acana and if asked would encorage one to consider a higher quality kibble above others.

Lastly, a raw diet is safe for dogs of all sizes. Their digestive systems doesn't differ from breed to breed.

I don't have much experience with premade raw so maybe someone else will chime in on that. I fed Stella and Chewy's for a very short time and Lexie did love it though. I'm sure your Bridget would do great on a raw diet:)

Very well said. The 2 reasons that caused me to switch from 50-50 Acana + PMR to 100% PMR were:

1. To strengthen my pet's immune system after he had heartworm treatment.

2. To maintain his teeth, which still needed a 2nd dental even after feeding 60-40 PMR + Acana. Now his teeth are finally plaque free and I feed the 25 pounds of Acana that I have left to the stray kitties. They love it.

I don't feel vets push Science Diet. I emailed a Board Certified Veterinary Nutritionist and my RX diet was recommend by her. I then when to my Vet and told her what I wanted. We then discussed it and decided to put her on it. I think the important thing to remember is what works for one dog will not work for another.

I didn't say all vets. I said many, including my past vet who sent me home with a huge bag of Science Diet Puppy formula when i brought Lexie in for her wellness check. My current vet also has Science Diet food on display but knows that i feed raw is and fine with it.

^ oops typo "and is fine with it".

I have been feeding pre-made raw for about 4 years now, and I just love it. I use mainly Primal and Natures Variety. Stella & Chewy is nice too.

Wylie is 7, Marcel is 5, and Pfeiffer is 2. Their teeth are gorgeous. I also give them non-consumable raw bones, which do wonderful things for their teeth. My favorite ones are from Whole Foods - and they're called "bison back" - I have the butcher saw them into smaller pieces. The bones end up being about 4 inches long, small enough to carry around - and to clean teeth, but large/tough enough to not consume the bone itself. Prey Model feeders use consumable bones, but mine do better w/ non-consumables.

I also give other types of chews, but I love the raw bones.

Many/most of the pre-made raw sources are free-range, and this is something I prefer as well - vs. factory farming. Small things like that mean a lot to me.

I have been feeding raw for 8 years. My Brooke Lynn is 14 months and was started on Puke-a-nuba puppy but we switched her to raw when we were done using her kibble for training.

One very important thing I've been told by a holistic veterinarian is to NEVER feed RAW and KIBBLE together - this can result in bacterial infections in the gut.

We were making our own food, which was a chore since we had 4 dogs, but recently started making a move over to SMALL BATCHES - it's a small local (to us) company which makes their food (literally) in small batches, no mass production. Might not be available to many of you (sorry). Their food comes in bags of frozen burgers or sliders - the sliders are perfect for our small dogs, 2 ounces per mini-patty. The one we have on beef gets those. The two we have on turkey share the regular size patties.

Years ago, we fed Granddad's, which we were also happy with. Their food was frozen in a tube. We sliced it and defrosted it a little at a time. It was great. The delivered (another California company) and might be more widely available by now.

The biggest risk of raw food is to you, not your dog. If you handle their raw food, your digestive tract is much longer than theirs, and you are much more subject to e-coli or salmonella, so diligent washing of hands, surfaces, knives, dishes, etc - is very important. We have had no problems but are very careful.

Whether you feed raw or homemade or kibble or canned or whatever - the most important thing, in my mind, is that you buy the best quality you can afford. Human grade is my priority. If it isn't human grade, you do not want to know what it is, but suffice it to say it may contain euthanized animals, animals that died from illness, and parts of animals you would never feed your dog knowingly - basically, garbage.

I am also feeding pre-made raw to all 3 of mine. Nature Variety or Primal and sometimes Stella and Chewies. They have all done wonderful on a raw diet.
I have never had and issues and it has been 2 years !
Good luck with your food quest!!

Raw doggie food.
 

I had to hand feed Emma when she was a baby, she was so picky. The breeder had her on Spots Stew, a dry food that is supposed to be healthy. One afternoon we were visiting at a friends house and we stayed longer than I anticipated and Emma needed to eat...my friend said she can have some of Izzies food. I cringed when she opened a tray of Caesars and gave her a couple of tablespoons of it. Now she wanted wet food. I went through many different kinds of organic, all natural, grain free. We were changing dog foods weekly! I found Stella & Chewy's Raw and purchased bison, duck and a couple of other ones in frozen pattys. Put a patty in a snack sized zip lock in the fridge to thaw and feed it to her the next day. She got tired of it. I got samples of Stella & Chewy's Raw freeze dried. It is made with farm raised meats plus fruit and vegetables. No grain, added hormones or antibiotics or artificial preservatives, sugar, salt or coloring. She loves it! I don't have to worry about it going bad... My very finicky bengal cats became use to seeing it and smelling it every day and eventually tried it, now they are on the diet also. Occasionally I give her a tablespoon or so of a wonderful wet food called paw licken chicken by a company called WERUVA. It is human grade food. I only shop at a whole food dog store, the reason for this is I lost my mini schnauzer Annie of 16 years to pancreatitis and I feel she would have avoided this if she didn't eat the junk at the pet stores. My very strong opinion only.. I don't mean to challenge others points of view. My friend at the beginning of this story...her dog had food allergies,she itched and her hair started to fall out. The vet put her on steroids and special diet (science diet physicians formula.) The girl vomits and is over weight now. From personal experience I would send you to the web sites for both of those companies. Your baby will be so healthy you won't believe it. My girl has been happy to eat this for the last 6 months, I change flavors and she loves it. She can growl at the kitties if they get fed first! :)

I currently feed Bravo! Raw and my boys are thriving. I've used Nature's Variety and Primal as well. I stopped using NV when I learned they were outsourcing some meats from China. I had to stop the Primal b/c my Snickers got bored of it. We are loving the Bravo! My boys also get only freeze dried raw treats and freeze dried food for supplemental feeding/snacks.

My boys only itch when they get the occasional mat. My boys love to eat, have lovely coats, and Snicks teeth are flawless. Reesie has some teeth issues but with regular maintenance, are fine, he needs a baby tooth pulled. Snick had LP surgery in 2009 and I contribute some of his rapid recovery to raw. My boys are gorgeous:) little to no eye gunk and are extremely healthy. Vet said Snick's body weight and maintainable is perfect.

It is not cheap, but I wouldn't have it any other way in terms of choosing a diet.

Let me know if you have any questions. I feel everyone is not doing it for the same reason humans are not all eating organic, it's expensive and there are easier, other, cheaper, effective methods to ea that work just fine and is what the majority do. Also, raw not proven to be the best or better diet. It's your personal choice.

:)
Vivian

I feed my yorkie raw meat. Love it. He is a healthy dog, no problems. No itching, beautiful coat. Yorkie is like other dogs, just smaller. It will be a coach potato if you make it one!

I agree! I know a lot of big dogs who are much better couch potatoes than Jackson is. He's very much so active. I don't feed him raw because I am lazy and also a college student who rarely cooks for myself. All the planning and prep and storage of raw is just not feasible for me right now. When I did feed pre-made raw for a brief period of time, I couldn't even remember to put it in the fridge the night before to thaw it out :rolleyes: and that's, like, the easiest of the easiest having it pre-made for you... LOL! I also travel a lot with him so it's simply not convenient to have raw. I'm not really against it nor for it. It makes sense to me, but for some reason, I still wouldn't feel comfortable doing full out PMR.

Maybe I should have explained this better and you're correct there is so much variation in the Yorkie breed, but some are genetically truly lap dogs and some are much more active. If they are extremely active, like let say a Dalmatian or a Grey Hound, they too would process cholesterol differently. My foster is truly a lap dog and Joey although much more active, is not running and exercising all day. He’s lucky to get a 15 minute run. I don’t think the owner has as much control over the activity level of the dog as genetics. I agree though, It’s possible to make a dog lazy by overfeeding and under exercising (or a human for that matter).

While some dogs are genetically going to be lazier than others, of course, I do think it's possible to teach a dog to enjoy activity and exercising.

As a puppy, I always encouraged Jackson to try new things. A tree log on the ground? Hop up on it. Snow? Let's go check it out. Water? Slowly encouraged him to try it... Sure, maybe some of this is natural to him, but had I never encouraged him to get in the water for example, I don't think he ever would have because I never would have tried and he never would have really known any better.

I think if I had gotten him as a puppy and decided it was too cold for him to go out in the snow, or the water was too dangerous for him to try, or something was too high for him to jump on, that, well... he wouldn't have. And he would have been a dog that probably would have learned to enjoy sitting on a lap or lounging around the house all day. But I did not want a dog like that so I molded and encouraged him into the dog that he is today.

For example, Buddy, my dads long haired Dachshund mix, enjoys activity when I am there. He always wants to join us on our walks or will engage in a game of play with me when I encourage him, but because my stepmom (his owner) allows him to gain weight and lounge around all day, he's also very content to do that because it's what he's been sort of "taught" to do.

I guess my totally off topic point is that yes, I do believe dogs are individuals and some will naturally enjoy things that others will not -- I do believe that early socialization, training, can play a huge part in the way the dog acts as an adult.

As a side point, Greyhounds actually tend to be very lazy pet dogs! They will lounge around on the couch all day if you let them.

I think it's possible to modify the behavior, but I really believe that there are huge differences between breeds. Didn't know that about greyhounds, I guess I assumed they were always jogging. :D How about West Highland Terriers? I wanted one of those, but heard they were so active, I'd never be able to give them enough exercise.

Totally going OT here, but had to chime in. My brother has a Whippet, as does my sister. Still in the sighthound family, basically just a smaller version of a greyhound. Whippets are incredibly FAST...but they are lazy. Younger brother and his pup live with us. Dallas (Whippet) sleeps/rests almost all day. He is young, incredibly athletic, and in perfect shape...but unless he running around outside in a park, he's lying in his bed or on the couch. Levi, my Yorkie, is MUCH more active than the Whippet.

Sorry, OP!

That's another one I assumed was very active, very interesting.

I'm curious to read these studies about cholesterol activity in athletic vs. non-athletic dogs. Do you still have those links handy?

Also, the cholesterol content in a well balanced raw diet vs. high protein kibble should be relatively similar, should it not?

Sorry I can’t find the exact studies, and the search function on YT isn’t working for me now, I have linked two studies before, in previous threads., but I keep getting, “Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage” :p


Anyway, I think you may have misunderstood me. The studies weren’t being done to benefit dogs per say, but the studies were being done on rats and dogs. Athletic dogs was a term I made up, and to me, dog/wolfs that have to hunt their own prey fall in this category, although there are other dogs that are almost as active. The studies were being done to benefit humans and they were saying how athletic humans use cholesterol differently than couch potatoes. There’s quite a few studies out there that say this, I don’t even think this is controversial, but perhaps you do, but basically they conclude eating high quantities of protein and fat isn’t as unhealthy for athletic as it is for couch potatoes. There were also studies that said the same thing when it came to fatty liver disease, those too were meant to benefit humans, but done on rats and dogs. Now I understand that some raw diets are no higher in protein and fat than cooked, and they contain vegetables and other things, but there are some raw diets, prey model, for example, which some say is much higher in fat and protein, and although this is a favorite of many, I personally would like to know if it has any long term effects upon heart disease. You say it isn't any higher in cholesterol then cooked or that it should be similar, but what I read was that it was much higher in protein and fat are you saying this is wrong? Anyway, these things haven’t been studied, and although people here say my dog has been eating it for 5 or 10 years and is doing great, I don’t think that’s the same as long term study. I just don’t feel like it’s safe enough to assure me that it’s the best choice for my dogs. I’m not criticizing people who are using it, I think that will give us more information long term.

This really isn't the most detailed article, but it's a place to start:

What Does High Cholesterol mean for Dogs? | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

For my pet, as his carbohydrate requirement is zero, he gets plenty of fat in his diet for energy. If I do not feed him enough fat, I can tell immediately by the texture and sheen in his coat.

One thing I failed to add in my post above. I do not equate cooked fat with raw fat. I would never feed my pet any sort cooked or processed fat under any circumstances. That is strictly my opinion, however, that is the stance I take.

Here’s one that talks about exercise and a fatty liver Exercise Prevents Fatty Liver Disease According To New Study

Here’s a study that talks about the connection between Exercise & Cholesterol, Exercise Prevents Fatty Liver Disease According To New Study.

The point of these studies is that an organism that is extremely active, and I would call a dog who has to hunt for his prey extremely active, can eat a diet that would be unhealthy for others who aren’t as active.

My Zoey eats raw. She loves it and as the others have stated, their poop is so small and almost order free. I feed Nature's Variety. Tried Stella & Chewy's but the fat content was extremely high. The vet is not crazy about it only because of handling raw meat but I am very careful.

Stella & Chewy's has 2 products. One is a freeze dried raw product and due to it's conversion on a dry matter basis, the fat content ranges from 25 to 35 percent.

To make a valid comparison, you need to convert your Nature's Variety raw to dry matter.

I am using the Chicken Formula (found here: Nature's Variety: Instinct Raw Frozen Diet for Dogs and Cats: Chicken Formula | Nature's Variety ) for demonstration.

To determine the amount of protein on a dry matter basis, divide the reported amount of protein (in this case, 13%) by the total amount of dry matter (32%).

Then, multiply the result by 100.

Dry Matter Protein Content = (13/32) x 100 = 40.00%
Dry Matter Crude Fat Content = (6/32) x 100 = 18.7%

Normally, the higher the fat content, the lower the protein content and vice versa.

I agree with you, the NV is suprisingly low in fat and at the same time has a decent amount of protein.

Oh Nancy I never thought you were! I know you well enough. :) I was just genuinely interested in reading those studies.

Oh gosh, I appreciate you saying that, thank you so much.