Two months and still having issues :(
 

Well two months ago today, Harley started throwing up and had diarrhoea.

I'm sad, cause once again today he threw up and had diarrhoea again. I'm just frustrated. I've run blood tests, stool samples, urine samples, and they all come back clear. All the vets also managed to miss the fact that he had fleas, which I'm now dealing with, I think they're almost gone.

I finally relented today and put him on the crap food the vet recommended (I didn't want to two weeks ago cause I felt that switching him for a 3rd time in 3 weeks wasn't going to help the situation). I'm mad cause we think he may have an allergy and the vet wants him on a food with chicken in it :mad:. But the vet wont comment any further until I agree to put him on Medical (which they conveniently sell). I'm very pro-local, and sustainable companies, and don't agree with RC at all. I can't really afford to consult another vet cause well I've used my insurance for GI issues. :thumbdown

Sorry just need to rant. I want a normal dog, I'm frustrated cause while I love my baby, I bought him to show in agility. I bought him from a reputable breeder, so I wouldn't have these issues, and now I have a sick dog that can't go outside let a lone to dog class. He's also not as happy cause I'm keeping him away from other dogs (his immune system isn't great, plus he's lost too much weight for his normal exercise). I can tell he also misses our training :(.

I just want him to be better, so we can go play outside again. He looked happy on Thanksgiving, I let him play outside cause my mom lives in the country and there are no other dogs, so no risk of the usual viruses. He liked that.

All blood tests are normal including bile acids test?

RC is not bad...

Any xrays done?

My little Jilly had very bad stomach issues all of her life and could only eat one good without roaring illness - Science Diet Sensitive Kibble. It saved her life and it was the ONLY food she could ever eat - ever. She never got any table tidbits or other treats or anything or she got very, very ill and nearly died. But I made her kibble various ways in the microwave or baked it, made her various treats of all kinds from the kibble and she lived to be a little old lady - only sick if some visitor or well meaning friend slipped her people food or something. She could never eat anything but that one food and as long as I was very strick about it, Jilly stayed well w/only the occasional bout of upset. I loved her with all of my heart until the day she went to the Rainbow Bridge so you can love them more than life even if they are not hale and hardy. I would give anything in this world to have her back, here with Tibbe and me, with her tummy troubles and all. I sure pray your little baby finds a way to get past this, but even if not, you have been given a special little life to look after and it is such a privilege to have a Yorkie, isn't it?

No xrays, the vet said it's irritable bowel syndrom, and that an xray is useless. My boyfriend has decided that if he gets sick on the new food, the vet is useless. At that point we're consulting a new vet all together. So the vet thinks we need to do trial and error with food to fix him. :(

I've done 3 sets of blood tests with different vets. All clear (well the very first one showed bacteria, which was treated by two antibiotics).

I really hope the RC works. Like I said it's not my first, second, or third choice in food.

It frustrates me cause for the past 2 years he's been able to eat ANYTHING. He was on high quality food and was supplemented with some fresh/canned human grade fish to snack on (I researched what he could have and what amounts, so he wasn't over fed, or too high protein). He only ate grain free treats, and usually high quality ones.

He's eating the wet Medical that I have, the closest vet was out of the dry food, and until I get my car back Monday (repair shop) I could only go to this vet. So I bought him some canned. He doesn't like it, but is eating it occasionally.

We were on vacation when he originally got sick (got sick the day before we left, still sick when we arrived), that's why he's seen 3 different vets. 2 were at emerge, and then the other one isn't Harley's real vet, she is just the first vet that could see him right away last time he was sick (at my normal clinic).

My Rosie has IBS so I understand what you are dealing with. I too have to feed a vet recommended food. She is currently on Science Diet I/D. I have tried so many different foods but this is the one that Rosie is able to be successful on. As long as she is on the I/D, we are able to manage her IBS very well. I buy the dry and the wet and mix them at feeding times for Rosie. Although it was not my first choice in food either, it is what works for her.

Rosie came from a good breeder too. One I know personally who does her best to have good quality puppies. And I know people that have others from her that are just fine. I think on IBS it is just one of those things. Luck of the draw I guess. My question for you is why is there issues with the pup going outside? And immune system issues? Are they saying this is related to the IBS? Did the vet mention that things would improve?

We all hope for the best for our babies but sometimes it just doesn't turn out that way. I lost one to diabetes, one to cancer and have one now that has CHF, dementia. With all the shots, special diets, care, money etc. I would give anything to have them back. My vet said most people would have already put them down but if they are in pain thats one thing but I believe like I have said before, it takes a special person to take care of a special needs dog. I have had Tina for 14yrs. and I love her dementia and all. Believe me, its one of the most trying, most tiring jobs I have ever had. She is one handful to take care of. Just love your baby and care for them, no matter what. Its something you will never regret. They don't chose to be sick and they are always so commited to us and loving. Hope your baby gets better and everything goes for the good, but just love and take care of that baby.

My breeder suggested that I calm down his social life, the vet and my trainer didn't disagree. Mainly because he's been soo on and off and his usual social ritual is rather hectic. We visit the local dog shop weekly to buy food and visit his best friend (a poodle who works there:D ), we attend dog classes weekly, and competitions in the summer, plus we walk in the park next door several times a week. I live in a high traffic dog area, so we all thought it best that he stay away from that for a bit. Plus my neighbours have dogs, that I suspect aren't vaccinated. Also he had fleas 3 weeks ago, so we didn't want to take him out til he's clear to protect other dogs.

Yeah, it's tough. I'd give anything for him to just get better. I'm tired of the vet sucking me dry and not being sure what the diagnosis is.

She keeps flip flopping and it's stressing me out, but unless he takes a turn for the worst I can't really afford another vets opinion. I'm stuck trying what I'm told.

I hope the food fixes the issue.

Do you all think he's ok to socialize safely? I also fear that if he plays at his normal energy level that with him losing .5lb (he weighed almot 4 before getting sick and is now 3.5) that he wont be able to gain any weight back.

Did you do any testing to confirm the IBS? I was told the only way to know for sure was a biopsy, which is too difficult to do on a small dog.

Gizmo is on perscrption food for his stomach issues. It seems to be common in smaller dogs and dogs in general. Many of the holistic and organic dog foods have a very high fat content which can cause belly trouble in even the most well bred dog.

I know there's alot of controversy about vets selling things like Science Diet and they get kick backs from it. But, it's hard for me to reason that theory when they too feed their dog SD. On that note as well, I tried every diet for Gizmo: Raw, Orijen, NB, TOTW, Blue, and the list goes on. He has done so much better on SD then any of those foods. Little to no eye matter, poops well, and literally scarfs his food with no tummy troubles.

I'm not preeching that every owner should put their dog on RC or SD, no. But, I don't think people give it the credit that it deserves. Especially if they don't have a dog that has a sensative stomach.

I'd try the RC, be sure to give it at least 10 days. Because, like you said, you've switched this dogs system 3 times with different food, which can cause more problems if there are GI issues.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I know with human IBS the only test they do is a biopsy and colonoscopy to rule out any cancers. And IBS can be hereditary.

BabyGirlRosie (or Crystal), yell at me if I'm wrong but isn't IBS diagnosis basically determined through GI habits?

I was wondering about that... cause my vet keeps writing GI symptoms on the diagnosis for my insurance papers. If the vet would make up her bloody mind that it is IBS I'd have more insurance coverage. Instead I'm now out. If he gets another tummy issue from now until July I'm screwed.

I thought there has to be a way to fully diagnose the problem. If those of you with dogs with IBS know of tests that helped, please let me know what to ask for in case I consult a new vet.

He's eating the RC, I've decided to drop my personal values on this one and hope for the best, maybe this will solve all the problems. My biggest fear is that he'll refuse to eat it. He was on SD when we were on vacation, cause that's what emerge gave him so that my mother in law didn't have to cook rice and hamburger. He then refused to eat it. I hope the RC gastro diet tastes more appetizing.

Can you get some canned as well? I know my vet put Giz on Science Diet W/D canned and dry and my vet let me warm up some chicken broth and pour it over the food. This helped it be more appealing.

I wouldn't recommend you do it without asking your vet first.

With regards to asking a vet about IBS, I would track bowl movements, when the happend, what they looked like, how much/little, etc. So you can bring it to your vet.

When your baby had bloodwork, was anything elevated? I see they didn't do an xray which I'm kind of shocked at. I thought an x-ray would be done to simpl rule out a blockage.

It was the canned he refused to eat. I couldn't get dry food yesterday of the Medical, so I got a can, knowing that he needed something to eat for the weekend until I can get to a vet Monday that carries the dry food. At least they have both a canned and dry which are the same formula, so it shouldn't upset him to switch between that.

I have a book that sits next to his toilet system, so I mark down everything now. I track when he eats, exactly how much, how much poop comes out, it's consistency and color. I'm weighing him weekly, and checking his temp periodically. I also have Zantac on hand which I've been instructed to give if he needs some tummy settling. I give him the occasional syringe of pediatric electrolytes too if he's not drinking much and his gums loose color. I record all of this in his "dog log". I also keep track of giving him Hi-Cal too. I've been doing this consistently for 2 weeks, I got tired trying to guess things while at the vet.

In the blood work, the first set, just his white blood cells, which I think the vet said was from bacteria. They went down after being given an antibiotic. The most recent blood test we tested everything, and it all came back normal. I believe she said that one thing, possibly the kidneys or liver (not sure) was off a bit, but she said the second parameter was perfect so it wasn't a sign of anything wrong. Which makes sense, every dog's levels are different, I know he usually has a slightly lower temperature than the range (only by a small decimal and it's consistent when he's healthy).

My vet did not do a biopsy on Rosie. He did blood work each time to rule out pancreatis. When her issues continued, she was put on the Science Diet and diagnosed with IBS.

Very well said. The EXACT reasons my Rosie stays on Science Diet. It is what works for her and her issues.

A clean biopsy rules in IBS (different from IBD). A biopsy with inflammatory cells makes IBD possible. It can be done in small dogs. When symptoms are present, it is sometimes considered best to go ahead with it if they can't be controlled quickly because some scary things can be ruled out this way. And also some intestine cases are treated with prednisone, but on the off chance that a lymphsarcoma is present (highly doubtful), giving pred like this would make chemo less effective. Because it's been going on for so long, this is very very likely not the issue. There are some other serious intestinal problems they can get that can be dx'ed with biopsy, but if bloods are perfect, most vets won't rush into it. And you can do it on small dogs.

The fecal was run out-house?
Lipase/amylase always normal and/or cPL done just in case?
When treating for the bacteria, what drug was given and did it improve symptoms?

I'm not entirely what was done with the fecal sample, I brought in a baggie which I believe they tested (this was at emerge during the first episode) But they kept him for 2 days so it's possible they ran one on a sample they collected. I don't know what the second thing you asked is. I think this is what's frustrating me is some of the vets aren't telling me what they're testing for exactly or what the results mean.

When he came home from emerge during the very first episode he was given metronydazole and liquid Zantac, which worked until it was clear from his system. He got sick about a day after his last dose.

The second eipsode (that night when he got sick again) he came home 2 days later after being on IV's, plus the following: Metronydazole, Panacur, Batril, Fortiflora, and some gastro protectant with 3 very long names. They gave the Panacur as a precaution in case the fecal came back showing something. The Batril and Metro cleared him up for about 2 weeks after his last dose, but when we arrived back home and started to switch his food he got sick again.

He's had the metro once again two weeks ago, and three weeks ago the vet saw him and gave him a shot of something. This most recent batch of issues happened about 1 week after his last dose.

Also about 2.5 weeks ago we discovered he had fleas. He was on Sentinal, because I asked the vet to give me something to cover worms and fleas, and that's what they gave me. No one explained that I should also use a topical, and that Sentinal is just flea birth control. He's now on Revolution, and we wash the bedding every 3 days. The vet admitted that the fleas could have caused some of the above problems. But we don't know how long he's had fleas for, cause we thought his itching was allergies until we found a flea crawling on him. Now we don't know if he has allergies or not.

Sorry for the ramble. Figured I'd give the full story.

Ugh, food transition doesn't appear to be sitting well. It's only day 2, so I'm going to give it a week before I panic, but he's got pretty bad diarrhoea... I hope it levels out after a day or so, maybe the hard food will help once I get a hold of that tomorrow.

He was super gassy last night, and it was a similar gas from when he used to eat these chicken dental chews... I just hope that's not his tummy saying he's allergic to the chicken in it. If this doesn't sit well I'm calling the vet tomorrow for one more opinion. After that unless she says something brilliant, I'm consulting a new vet.

If the pup still has diarrhea I think I would pull the food until you talk to the vet. Mine always suggests that so the tummy can "rest". Still give water of course. I know many don't like Science Diet, but why don't you ask about the Science Diet I/D. It really works for Rosie and her IBS. Just a suggestion. I would call the vet as soon as you can. Sending prayers and hugs for your little one. Keep us updated.

I agree. If this is IBS or sensative tummy, SD seems to be what my dogs have done good on. Cammie was on I/D for a form of acid reflux and Giz is on W/D...

I'm not a vet, but maybe some white rice would do good by his belly tonight. That and some canned pumpkin.

Pumpkin can do wonders! :) I know from previous experience! BTW, isn't it you that freezes it? I need to know what you do?

We put it in a microwavable tupperware container and freeze it. That way, since we get it organic, it still has a shelf life for emergencies.

Ok well he's feeling worse.. so I'm pulling the food. I noticed last night he was SUPER gassy, which smelled similar to his gas last time he ate a dental chew (which contained chicken). I've ruled that this food ISN'T going to work, cause of the chicken. He's his health has declined since he's been on this food.

My vet only sells the Medical (RC) and I don't see her suggesting SD, only because she's very closed minded. I'm still considering it but really don't know which to choose, only that it MUST NOT have any chicken in it.

I talked to someone today who told me about their little yorkie who had IBS which was caused from allergies. They told me the foods that their little girl couldn't eat and what food they selected. The dog she described sounded identical to Harley. They told me that they did 2 years of trial and error until they found this food. I'm considering trying this one, but am now really confused. I'm mad cause I trusted the vet and now she's made him sicker.

I don't know what to do now. My gut is telling me to try this food by Versus. My brain is saying call the vet... but I don't trust her anymore.

I'm torn whether to give him pumpkin, because he's never had it before. I've heard it does good, but seeing my goal was to only give him one thing and one thing only, I'm scared to try it. He's had rice before, doesn't like it much, but I think I'm going to fast him for the night anyway, and let his tummy clear.

My poor boy.

This is only my opinion. But if you don't trust your vet any more than it is time for a new one. To me, trust in your vet is vital. Do you have an ER vet you could go to? If he is that much worse I think a vet visit is imperative at this point. I am so sorry you are dealing with all this. It is hard I know. If you have the organic pumpkin I think you would be ok if you give a teaspoon or so. It really does help my Rosie girl.

Sadly I trust the ER vets less. :( They have recently done a few things that were really wrong and really dangerous with a friend of mine's yorkie. The dog nearly died because the vets do not specialize in small dogs (or have common sense as it appears). Their choices were terrible. It's a bit lawsuit battle now. :thumbdown

I'm in the process of shopping for a new vet that I put my trust in, but feel it's useless to throw my money away on consulting another vet until I know I want to stick with them (I've run out of insurance money and my emergency fund). Can you see why I'm frustrated and confused. I don't know who to trust anymore, and I'm not knowledgable enough to make decisions. :(

I don't think he's at a point that the vet can do anything for him, other than send him home with recommendations for food, so I'm going to try the pumpkin and stabalize him. (I've gotten good at that sadly). I've got a bit of Zantac, so I'm going to give him that too. That'll buy me time to pick my next choice in food. If he gets worse even still, well then I'll have to bite the bullet tomorrow and take him in.

I feel like I'm back at my mom's barn where we had 3 vets refuse to travel to us (they were too far away for emergency response) so we had to learn all the equine first aid ourself. I thought I'd be able to find a vet I trust in the city but I guess I was wrong. :confused:

That is just terrible. I don't trust the ER vets as much as my regular vet but I can not even imagine not trusting my regular vet. That is a hard call. I hope Ladyjane sees this thread and can give you some advice. As far as right now, I would pull the food and let the pup's tummy rest. I would be glad to send you some of the I/D food to sample if you would like. Just PM me. I have can and dry both. I am just not sure if it has chicken in it or not. But we could find out. It really has worked for Rosie. Also, do not give treats or anything else. I do understand your frustrations. I don't know anything about the Zantac. Hopefully someone here will have some experience with that as well. It will be very important that the pup does not get dehydrated. Is Harley drinking water? Keep a check on his gums to make sure. Again, I am so sorry. I would start looking for a new vet ASAP!