I guess I'm hoping to hear BEFORE it kills any dogs, and maybe some are just getting sick. Is that expecting too much?

That would be the ideal, that the food would be tested before it is packaged and sent out to kill.

You all know so much about all of these companies that I have never heard of. :)
Thank you for sharing all this information-it is nice to become more informed. I will be taking more time to research all of this so that I stay informed but it is hard to know about all of them...there are so many!!

My mom was talking about how she is not used to this "special" diet for dogs because when she was growing up they only fed their dogs table scraps and when they didn't have enough table scraps they would cook up some oatmeal and feed that to them and she said their dogs lived long and happy lives. BUT when she was growing up they ate most of their food from the garden and the food wasn't full of antibiotics and steroids like the food is today. It was much simpler back then.

Yeah people did give their dogs table scrapes, but people ate healthier too. It's really hard to give a dog a balanced nutrition using just table scrapes, because dogs need so much more calcium than humans. People did give the dogs bones as it supplies calcium and there were a lot of casualties with this habit. That’s the first vet warning I can remember, as a child “No chicken bones.” Then eventually, “No steak bones” a bone had to be bigger than your fist, and then next,“ No soup bones.” I guess the rule now is, “No cooked bones?” However, since no company is testing, we often find out too late that something is dangerous. Another thing to remember is that yorkies seem to have a very deligate digestive system compared to most breeds.

Expanding on this topic....it is a matter of testing each batch of each product, and knowing what to test for. There are many known problems to test for, salmonella for instance. I would imagine there are some things that are unknown or cannot be anticipated.

I'm still looking for a master list of recalls going back to the 1990s or even earlier. If anyone knows of one, please share.

Here are a few of the biggies:
1995 - Nature's Recipe - About 1-million pounds of dry dog and cat food. Pet owners complained that their pets were vomiting and had lost their appetite. The problem was a fungus that produced vomitoxin contaminating the wheat.
1999 - Doane Pet Care - Over a million bags of corn-based dry dog food that had been contaminated with aflatoxin. Products included the Wal-Mart brand, Ol' Roy and 53 other brands. There were 25 dogs that died.
2000 - Iams - 248,000 pounds of dry dog food that had been distributed in 7 states. There was an excess DL-Methionine Amino Acid, a urinary acidifier.
2003 - Go! Natural - Circumstantial association with some dogs suffering from liver disease; no cause was ever found.
2005 - Diamond Foods - a similar recall as Go! Natural. Moldy corn contained a very bad fungal product called aflatoxin. There were 100 dogs that died.

Holy Crap.

Both Lucy and Ringo are on BB. I finally found a food Lucy likes with a medium to low protein level. (She eats the Senior version).

I'm not sure what to do; sit back and see what happens I guess.

What does Iams do that is cruel? I couldn't bring myself to watch the video.

BB also had a recall not long ago because of vitamin D toxicity. I think MSU discovered it. Animals were getting sick.

Interesting that BB says there are no serious side effects to an overdose of vitamin D. It's a fat soluble vitamin, and as far as I know there can be very serious issues with it.
Blue Buffalo Recall - Vitamin D



Michigan State University Diagnostic Center for Population and Animal Health issues statement of concern about vitamin D toxicity associated with diet; Blue Buffalo issues recall

Diagnostic Center for Population and Animal Health

Looks like it may have even caused kidney damage in some dogs, so to say there are no serious side effects tells me they either wanted to make it sound like a small issue or know nothing about medicine (or both which is likely).

Please say it isn't so :-( I'm going to hope it is just a rumor because that is why we switched to Blue. My girls were on Evo before. They're doing great on Blue and love it even more than the Evo.

Just spent a few minutes googling and nothing comes up about it.... soooo.... I'm being an optimist and hoping it's not true...lol.

Now I had the opposite reaction with Rhett. BB is the only one he can consistently tolerate without tummy troubles. I think it all comes down to the feeding the best food that your dog will tolerate.

I wouldn't worry about it yet just keep an eye out for it and if I find out anything I will definitely let you know. There is a chance P&G won't buy BB or change the ingredients but the problem is that they if they do you will just have to be careful because when they bought out Iams they changed it and didn't put out any information and then dogs got sick.

I wish I had not watched the video! :(

Here is a little blurb from the website:
Animal Cruelty Allegations

In 2002 and 2003, PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) conducted an undercover investigation at Sinclair Research Center, a laboratory contracted by Iams Pet Food.
The investigation uncovered horrendous, inhumane acts of cruelty to dogs and cats.

The investigator found dogs who had literally gone crazy from intense confinement in barren, steel cages and cement cells. The purpose of the "research" was to observe the effects of solitary confinement on a dog!

Many dogs were debarked, while others were left on a filthy floor after chunks of muscle had been hacked from their thighs. Many extremely sick dogs and cats were simply left lying neglected in cages, dying slowly and painfully, alone. No veterinary care or pain relief was provided.

Iams representatives toured the facility, witnessed the events and ... turned a blind eye!

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) investigated PETA's complaint and cited the laboratory for about 40 violations of the Animal Welfare Act. Sinclair paid a penalty of $33,000.

P&G denied any involvement in the scandal. However, once again, after intense publicity and extreme pressure from PETA, P&G's public relations machine went into damage control. They agreed to begin conducting in-home tests for food and nutrition experiments and even built a separate website designed to explain P&G's version of the "facts".
On another occasion, Iams/Eukanuba also fought the release of information from a university study in which a painful disease was induced in dogs.

In a 2001 Petfood Industry Electronic Newsletter, Diane Hirakawa (Senior Vice President of Iams’ Research & Development) makes an admission, stating, “The lesson learned here is that kennel studies are not an appropriate way to test feeding guidelines because most kennels represent a high-stress … environment. Naturally, in such an environment, dogs may need to consume more food than they would in a home setting.” - IamsCruelty.com.

However, Iams allegedly still keeps up to 700 dogs in their Dayton, Ohio laboratory for non-invasive nutritional studies. It refuses to give PETA representatives access to the lab and also refuses to end invasive experiments on non dog and cat studies.

Yes at this point it is only a rumor so hopefully it won't happen but I just wanted to make sure people are aware. :)

Hi.. I have not been on YT in a long time but was told about this thread and felt to add my babies story to it... please think twice before feeding BB. I lost my precious Sammie Sam due to kidney stones and my precious Berri just had surgery for the same and had way to many crystals in her tract that were not normal plus she is 5yrs and Sammie was 3 to young for this problem. The vet confirmed that BB was the problem !!!!! That is all I had been feeding my dogs do not get table scraps. I have the proof and so does BB and this is not the first instance as they have claim forms and they email them to you. Also after letting many others know what has happened to my babies I have been bombarded with emails on how BB has made others sick and how Vets had advised not to feed it... when you google BB cause Kidney stones you may not like it... but do as you wish I for one will not risk the lives of my other babies ... good luck to all of you that continue with this kibble

FYI Sammie and Berri became ill within months of each other.

I'm so sorry to hear this. :(

Ordinally I'd question if it was the food or what (because pups can get kidney failure, etc. from toxins). But we already know their vitamin D toxicity issue was causing kidney damage.

BB does have nutritionists on staff and they do have veterinarians on staff (however, they are holistic vets and honestly I would not let a holistic vet touch my dogs). They do not have a veterinary nutritionist. I have to wonder how much experience any of them has beyond just telling an owner to feed xyz kibble or working with nutrient profiles. In other words, I don't believe any have the perfect experience to create a diet that most dogs will do well on.

I think they also skip out on feeding trials, so there was no chance for these things to be caught before marketing the food.

There is just something that I do not trust about this company anymore and my dogs will not be eating it.

Saying that vitamin D overdose has no major side effects, lol, good one. Shows me their vets are top notch.:rolleyes: Or their marketing dept...

Are feeding trials considered animal cruelty because the dogs involved are potentially being put at risk? Where do the dogs come from that are used for the trials?

I am very sorry for your loss of Sammie, and for Berri's illness.

I don't know where they come from, but would assume medical research beagles play a part.

Yes, some would consider it cruelty because animals could get very sick. I'm not sure there is a way around it though. Sad as it is, I'd rather a medical beagle get sick from a food than my family pets.

If a company thinks their food is so great, then their should be no risk to the pups. Sadly, they just assume it's okay. There are foods that do not pass AAFCO feeding trials. It's not a great system, but certainly much better than nothing. The old boots and motor oil meeting the guaranteed analysis profile and thus being approved by AAFCO may be true, but when put in a feeding trial, those types of ingredients would not pass digestibility testing. I'm surprised more people aren't in favor of trying food from companies who do feeding trials first.

Old boots and motor oil...had not heard that one.

Fromm's website says: "Animal feeding testing using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Fromm Family Four Star Nutritionals™ Chicken À La Veg™ Dog Food provides complete and balanced nutrition"

Is this the same as feeding trials?

From Pet food - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Dog and cat foods labeled as "complete and balanced" must meet standards established by the AAFCO either by meeting a nutrient profile or by passing a feeding trial. Cat and Dog Food Nutrient Profiles were last updated by the AAFCO's Feline Nutrition Expert Subcommittee (1991-1992) and the Canine Nutrition Expert Subcommittee (1990-1991), respectively. The updated profiles replaced the previous recommendations set by the National Research Council (NRC).[13] The NRC published new recommendations in 2006; AAFCO is currently (2010) in the process of updating the nutrient profiles.

Products that are substantiated to be "complete and balanced" by feeding trials bear the label statement "animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that (name of product) provides complete and balanced nutrition." The protocol requires that 6 out of 8 animals complete a 26 week feeding trial without showing clinical or pathological signs of nutritional deficiency or excess. The cats' or dogs' general health is evaluated by a veterinarian before and after the test. Four blood values, hemoglobin, packed cell volume, serum alkaline phosphatase and serum albumin are measured after the trial and the average values of the test subjects must meet minimum levels. No animal is allowed to lose more than 15% of its starting weight.

Products that are formulated with ingredients to meet the established nutrient profile would include the following statement. "(Name of product) is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Cat/Dog Food Nutrient Profiles." There are two separate nutrient profiles - one for "growth and reproduction" and one for "adult maintenance". The nutritional adequacy statement would include info on which life stage(s) the product is suitable for. A product labeled as "for all life stages" must meet the more stringent nutrient profile for "growth and reproduction". Products labeled as "intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding" do not need to meet either profile.

The "Family Rule" allows a manufacturer to have a product that is "nutritionally similar" to another product in the same "family" to adopt the latter's "complete and balanced" statement without itself undergoing any feeding tests. The "similar" food must be of the same processing type; contain the same moisture content; bear a statement of nutritional adequacy for the same or less demanding life stage as the lead product; contain a dry matter metabolizable energy (ME) content within 7.5% of the lead product's dry matter; meet the same levels of crude protein, calcium, phosphorus, zinc, lysine, thiamine (and for cat foods, potassium and taurine) as the lead food; and meet or exceed the nutrient levels and ratios of the lead family product or the AAFCO Nutrient Profiles, whichever is lower. The label statement on the similar food can be the same as the lead product if the ME is substantiated by the 10-day ME feeding study.[14]

Critics of the AAFCO standards argue that such requirements are too lax. Generational studies conducted by researchers at University of California, Davis have shown that some foods that pass AAFCO's feeding trials are still not suitable for long term use and estimated that of 100 foods that pass the nutritional analysis, 10 to 20 would not pass the feeding trials.[15]

Although maximum levels of intake of some nutrients have been established because of concerns with overnutrition, many still lack a maximum allowed level and some contains large disparity between maximum and minimum values.[16] The NRC accepts that despite ongoing research, large gaps still exist in the knowledge of quantitative nutritional information for specific nutrients.[17] Some professionals acknowledge the possibilities of phytochemicals and other vital nutrients that have yet to be recognized as essential by nutritional science. With such broad guidelines and loose feeding trial standards, critics argue that the term "complete and balanced" is inaccurate and even deceptive. An AAFCO panel expert has stated that "although the AAFCO profiles are better than nothing, they provide false securities."James G. Morris and Quinton R. Rogers Assessment of the Nutritional Adequacy of Pet Foods through the Life Cycle. J. Nutr. 124: 2520S-2534S, 1994."

OMG I just watched that video! Only part of it that was all I could stomach! It made me so sad! I will never buy P&G again or anything Iams. ALso will let everyone know how they are so cruel to animals.

Yes, if the AAFCO statement on the bag says feeding tests or feeding trials, then their were AAFCO feeding trials done on the food.

It is far from a great system; however, I don't think that is any excuse to skip it. Unless they have done better feeding trials with OUTSIDE vets (not within the company), then AAFCO has to do.

Thanks Ellie and Maximo

Ellie I did not know of the issues with BB as I had been feeding it with no issue so I thought but then it hit us like a tornado and I am to blame as I should have researched it better. I wish I had stayed with RC or Solid Gold. The vet is totally behind the fact that BB has caused this and well we have 2 vets and they had a meeting and will be looking it to it more. all I was to do is warn all that BB can be lethal as it was to my Sammie.. so far Berri is ok. BB said they will replace Sammie and pay all vet bills on both dogs, big deal you can't replace love.... I keep thinking of when we had our poodle and 3 other childhood dogs all lived to be 14-16 never sick just one broken leg and all they ate was purina dog chow, since back in the day we didn't have all these designer dog foods....maybe Purina knows what they are doing after all

I agree, can't replace love. :( Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

:thumbup::thumbup:
Now I am totally confused what to feed.
Currently feeding Fromm's Chicken A La Veg.
Mickey is pooping all the time (only feeding 1/2 c day) and Max is going big piles. Gas issues for Mickey.

Have a bag of Nature's Variety Prairie Chicken and TOTW Sierra (both unopened).

Was going to get a bag of SD Ideal Balance and sales clerk ran over and told me SD is bad food and to get the NV.

I never listen to the sales people in stores- sorry, but what kind of training is necessary to work in a pet store? Zero.

I make my own decisions regarding food (with my vets input) and then just walk in and buy what I want, if a sales person tries to steer me towards something else, I smile politely and say "thank you for your advice, but this is what my vet recommends".

I am very sorry to hear that. That is extremely distressing.

I'm sorry I feel for you, it was so hard to find a food that Joey liked and did well on. Of course, the reviews even confused things more. I don't think a food should give a dog gas, I mean if a food has more fiber than a dog is use to, it might take a week or so to get use to the added fiber and this could cause gas, but if it's going on longer than that, I'd find another food. Gas is a sign that they are not digesting the food, for whatever reason. Large piles of poop aren't a good sign either, I think there might be too much indigestible fiber in the food. I mean, are they getting enough nourishment, if they can't digest so much of it? Poop is basically what our bodies can't digest and don't need, a little fiber is good, it keeps the intestinal tract in good order, after all, we don’t want our dogs pooping pellets, but it may be too much of a good thing.

I would not listen to the sales clerk either.

Sorry to hear that the Fromm is not working for your kiddos. Do they eat anything in addition to their kibble? My boys eat that same food and if I add anything to their diet, they have problems. When it is pure kibble, they are great.

I hope you find something that works for you.

Really? I can't think of anything sadder than being stuck in a cage being tested on so someone else's pet doesn't get sick.

How do you suggest we test? First of all, dogs don't necessarily hate kennels, and kennels can be humane. Also, if a food isn't giving a dog proper nourishment, it's much better that they would be learned in a clinical environment where they are constantly checking blood samples and doing tests. At home you might not learn that the dog is severely malnourished until it's too late. I would hope the labs would be filled with dog lovers who ensure that dogs are being treated appropriately. I think we all should be against inhumane experiments, but not all experiments are inhumane. If the lab doesn’t test, you are the experimenter.