Great information - Dog Food Advisor
 

I like using the site as a quick place to find a whole list of foods and their ingredients for comparison but I wouldn't take everything they say as gospel- look at their contributors- only one is a vet, the other two are a radio host and a dentist, a HUMAN dentist! So how do you know who is writing each review. Do you really want to take a dentists opinion on what to feed your dog?

I like these kinds of sites for ingredient comparison too. For me, the ratings just get thrown out the window. Very interesting to see all the makers of raw. I didn't know so many companies had these products.

They are telling me I'm going to an unreasonable extreme by feeding soy dog food. ?? If their dog pooped liquid on meat diets, I'm sure they would change their minds.

The foods with higher meat content get higher ratings. I don't want a dog food with so much meat in it because it's extra stress on the kidneys and liver (it has to be metabolized and nitrogen has to be eliminated by the kidneys). These brands also tend to have more phosphorous (because of the meat content). Some will be comfortable with that and some won't. I don't like the idea. The 4 and 5 star foods here, I'd only feed a handful of them and that is if some of ones with lower ratings didn't work. Some of these smaller companies also have questionable quality control and the foods can lack consistency. Most of these companies also don't do feeding trials, so the dogs that it's being tried on belong to pet owners.

alrighty then...:rolleyes:

I just posted on the Blue Buffalo thread hoping Ellie May could recommend a quality dog food that didn't cost a fortune. :confused:

I posted in a thread earlier about how I personally liked a food to have more meat in it. Now I'm seeing this post and you have me really thinking about things from this perspective.

I wanted to ask what feeding trials you feel a food should have? Are the AAFCO guidelines enough? What else do we need to be aware of as far as testing and good quality control procedures?

Sorry you're getting so many diet/food questions today, but like the others I value your opinion! :)

I posted in the other thread again.

No, I don't think an AAFCO feeding trial is enough, but that's about the best there is...

If a company didn't run one, why not?
If they don't have a vet nutritionist on staff (who went through probably at least 10+ years of school and are experts), why not?
If they don't do either of these things, I'm really concerned...

Some of these companies just have DVMs?? I love my DVM, but she ain't qualified to formulate a kibble for the nation's dogs! She tells me to talk to a vet nutritionist...

I just recently noticed the "better" kibbles with all the meat have the highest phosphorus %.

And even things like by products (I dont' feed them unless I have to - the thought grosses me out), really how bad are they? Why not ask the company what is included in those by products? Some of it is organ meat that has to be listed as that. It will contribute a significant amount of vitamins/minerals. So does less by products mean more synthetic vitamins? I don't have the answer to that and I'm certainly not going out to buy a bag of regular SD right now, but I think these new companies are expert at marketing and I'm not convinced that they are making meaningful contributions to canine nutrition with their possible lack of research. But that is JMO.

These are such excellent questions Bonny. I am impressed with petowners who want to educate themselves. I will openly admit that I found this information too hard as a younger pet owner to sort it all out. I decided to home cook for that reason. I still believe I can do better than any company for my boys by home cooking for them with oversight from my vets. My dog Daisy unfortunately is another story and almost every diet from all meat and bone to vegetarian have failed her. She does best on diets designed for liver compromised dogs that consist of ingredients that sound terrible! She's 11, and nearing the end of her natural lifespan, so I am less worried these days about perfect balance and ingredients -- I just want to keep her alive!

BTW, AAFCO guidelines are not the same as AAFCO feeding trials. Ellie May can probably better explain the differences but basically when a company says that a food meets AAFCO guidelines, it only means they have done that on paper. AAFCO feeding trials means that they have run a trial of the food on pets. Then of course we have our own feeding trials at home - can OUR pets tolerate the food? And, pets are individuals, any BC nutritionist will say that, so what works for one will not work for another.

Good point, the other review site, http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/about.html is even worse, no one has studied nutrition.
Yet people take their word over the word of their vets who at the very least had one class in nutrition and I can tell you that you learn a lot in one class! The problem with learning on our own, is people don't always plow through that which is boring or difficult or even worse, they may just not understand certain concepts. Nutrition is a complex science, and how nutrients work together is important part of it. Lastly, individual recommended amounts of nutrients are still by and large, estimates. The more you study nutrition the more you will learn, we still don’t know an awful lot, so they main thing we can do is find a “SAFE” diet for our dogs, not the BEST diet, but a SAFE diet.

I personally love this site Invalid Page learning about dog food, she has great credentials too!

Great info...thanks!

Thank you for the link this is really great info.

I wonder why it came up with "invalid page"? I'll try again: The Dog Food Project - Myths about Dog Nutrition

I saved it in my favs.

I've been reading on this site for about an hour and it's very informative. It sounds like she has extensive education and experience in animal nutrition. :thumbup: Thanks for the link!

I think the good thing about the site is that she teaches us how to choose a "good" food.

And in a way I think I actually understand. :)

I've only had one year of nutrition, and lots of years of science, and it's the first site I've found that I can agree with "most" of what she says. Still don't know if she's wrong or I'm wrong on a few points! :D

The Blue Buffalo was my thread! Hehe! :p But I'll post on here basically what I said there. I was feeding Gizmo 4 plus star foods on the dogfoodadvisor ratings and all that happened was watery eyes, upset tummy, losing weight, and a dog that just didn't enjoy eating. And it was upsetting. Both for Gizmo and us.

So, after posting a thread and PMing Cathy and talking to Crystal, I put Gizmo on RC and he's loving it. I think dog diets, like humans are individual. I mean a "premium" food is only "premium" if your furbaby isn't crapping every hour and basically getting depressed when it comes to eating it because he know's how his tummy will react.

Am I saying to run out there and buy Ole' Roy dog food? No, but if your dog can't handle the high protein counts then he or she can't. It would be like a lactose intolerant individual having milk shoved down their throat everyday and expecting to build a tolerance.

With that being said, Gizmo is on, according to dog food advisor, a 2 star food. But, who's to argue with the fact that he loves dinner and breakfest time, poops twice a day, has a ton on energy, doesn't have watery eyes, and his stomach is growling like it use to every night..

Just IMO.

Sorry you did not like my opinion- however, your sarcasm was unnecessary- if you believe it is a useful site, backed by quality research and professionals in the field- feel free to explain your reasoning and show us your proof- however an eye roll does nothing to support your side.

That link was just an "FYI." Take it for what it's worth. No, I do not have to explain anything to anyone, nor do I have to show any proof of anything to anyone. Geeeeeesh, I was simply sharing an article!:rolleyes:

I'm glad you did! It started a good discussion, I think. Even though we might have rambled a little off your original topic. Thank you. :)

Thank you so much:)!!!! I also think the discussions have been great! Every day on yt is a learning experience!!!

I agree, I think we can learn certain things from the site, and in my opinion, it's a better site than Dog Food Analysis.

I've always really liked the Dog Food Advisor site. Much better than Dog Food Analysis. I like how the author answers a lot of questions and comments, and always advises to go to a vet first and that he is not qualified to answer most of these questions that he is asked.

I still can't believe that most dogs won't do well eating meat. MOST. Obviously, if a dog doesn't do well on it... it doesn't do well on it. I would never force a dog to be eating food that was doing terrible things to his stomach. But, I'm pretty sure it's been known for all time since dogs have existed with humans that, well, dogs like meat. What did they eat before the creation of modern-day dog kibble in the 1950's (I believe Purina was the first to begin marketing dog food, and they also used scare tactics to get people to believe this was the ONLY way a dog can be fed)? I'm assuming most people gave their dogs meat... probably both cooked and uncooked. "Table scraps" and the like. However, I believe table scraps would be considered different back then as opposed to now. I think people food has gotten incredibly disgusting as well... our bodies sometimes can't even take the crap that we feed into it, how can we expect a canines to?

I dunno. I just don't believe there's enough research out there to say "this dog died young because he had X kibble, and this dog lived longer because he ate Y kibble". There are too many variables out there. I'll see so many times "Well my parents dog lived to be 17 on Kibbles n Bits"... but honestly, that dog could have just had really good genes or really good luck. It's really hard to say. There are folks who eat all organic, healthy, don't drink/smoke, exercise and still die of lung cancer at the age of 45. Then there are those who drink, smoke, are fat, and lay around, and live to be 100. I think we all can just do the best we can do and what we feel is right and gives our dogs the best quality of life while they are around.

Actually, I was considering using the author of this site to help me out and advise me about feeding Jackson.

Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: Main Page

The issue of meat has been bothering me too, Brit. The site that Nancy linked yesterday by the nutritionist had a really good explanation (I think) of meats/proteins/digestiblity that more closely matches how I'd always looked at the issue.

The nutritionist says "Protein is processed in the liver and any waste materials are filtered and excreted by the kidneys. High quality protein does not generate large amounts of waste that needs to be removed from the body, but poor quality protein which is difficult to digest does and thus puts stress on the kidneys. The liver needs water to process protein and as a medium to carry waste products to the kidneys, where they are filtered out and most of the water is reabsorbed." And "Many people cite old, outdated research that claims high protein percentages in the food are harmful to dogs and do all kinds of damage, especially to the liver. Fact is that these studies were conducted by feeding dogs foods that were made from poor quality, hard to digest protein sources, such as soy, corn, byproducts, blood meal and so on. From my explanation above, you now already know that it is a question of protein quality that affects the kidneys."

This helped me to understand that it's all proteins, not just meat that the liver and kidneys have to process. And that for healthy dogs, meats are much more digestible than other sources of protein which actually make things easier for the liver and kidneys.

I think it's like Crystal, Cathy and the others have said - you have to find what food(s) works for your dog because each dog and their needs can be so different. I just wish finding *THE* food didn't have to be so hard. :p

Honestly, I would not have any of those people advising me on my dogs especially my dogs who have issues. For me to feel comfortable, that person needs to be a veterinarian with clinical experience and expertise in nutrition. I can do it myself otherwise.

ETA: By this I mean someone who is an ACVN diplomat!!

Soy or no soy - interesting debate. I see no problem with a food that has meat protein totally instead of adding soy protein. From what I've read, I'm definitely not convinced that soy is going to hurt a pup. What I am concerned about is high protein diets (20-30% don't fall into this category) and what they do to BUN and things like that. I would not watch a BUN go up in a young dog over a high protein diet, but that's me. And the phosphorus from all this meat when most middle aged dogs have kidney damage already, I think it's best to be careful.

I don't know anything about this nutritionist except what I've read on the About page. Could be totally right about soy. Don't know. But I did see that she doesn't hold a DVM. She is not (and could not be) DACVN. She doesn't have a Ph.D in nutrition, etc. She is a bio major with a certification in animal care and feeding. We all get to choose what we are comfortable with. I'd sooner have my general DVM pick my pup's diet. JMHO.

BTW, the article sites by-products as being inferior. I agree that they are gross and some are less than nutritious, but some are very nutrient rich foods, so I couldn't say they're all bad.

Good point. By products include organ meats, don't they?

I agree with much the author of the site says, and she has good credentials and I think the site can teach the average person a little about nutrition. If it was about some type of allergy, I would be tempted to use her, but with something as serious as pancreatitis where I could LOSE Joey, I would want to go to an absolute expert. That means someone who has the schooling in both canine nutrition and disease. Ellie May gave the name of the Doctor at Cornell University who teaches nutrition and who does consolations for sick dogs, and that’s the sort of person I’d want to use. I just see this disease as something very serious.