All you RAW feeder's - I'm in the club! :)
 

I'm switching to a raw diet, but doing it "home made" (prey model) and Alice and my Akita convinced me this morning :)

I used to use NV but it got too $$$$

So, I've researched how to use meat and some bones and organs from a butcher shop and grocery store along with ground egg shells and a few other supplimental ingredients and I'm now 100% convinced this is the way to go and it will actually probably save me money since their kibble is really expensive and alot of what I need I can get from the local butcher for very cheap if not free.

This morning, Alice and my Akita didn't want their kibble (like usual) so in the middle of my researching I remembered that I still had a good slab of venison in the freezer from my Dad's hunting trip this winter. I thawed it out in hot water and sliced some up for the 2 of them and - they devoured it WAY better than they do the pre-made raw patties I've tried recently. In the almost 3 months I've had Alice, I've never seen her eat ANYTHING with that much enthusiasm! (this is a dog who doesn't like COOKED chicken) She even ate it right out of the "dreaded, scarey bowl" :p.

I feel kind of dumb actually for not understanding this before, Miya and especially Alice were trying to tell me something;) - they're not meant to eat "dog food". No wonder Alice would sniff and walk away looking at me like, you expect me to eat what? It just makes sooo much sense with all the "picky eaters" on here. The dogs understand what they're supposed to eat and we just don't get it.

So that's my raw food excited rant :) - no more picky eaters, no more fat cats, more more dry skin. Even the best of the best kibble can't compare to what nature intended :) Seeing picky Alice eat that raw venison so happily was definatly the deal sealer for me :) Duh LOL

If you're having a hard time with a "picky eater", try a raw diet, start with pre-packaged such as Nature's Variety or Primal or just give a little piece of beef or chicken that's you're making for dinner BEFORE you cook it and see what happens :) You may just have a "lightbulb" moment like I did :) There's TONS of information online about it, so if you're nervous, read up, you'll change your mind and your picky eater will thank you :)

Here's the site where I learned the most if anyone's interested:
www.pet-grub.com/

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Good to hear! Sasha was the same way when I introduced her to Primal. I was nervous because I had tried NV with her in the past and she ate it for a few days and then wanted nothing to do with it which was money lost for me because I had just bought a big bag of it. A few years later, I began to notice quite a few members on here raving about Primal and how wonderful it is. I started reading up on it and went to their website to see if there was even a store around my area that sells it, which of course I got lucky and there was. They offer a sample pack which has 4 different protein sources, 3 nuggets each. Tried that first and she loved them all and shes been eating Primal ever since. I buy two 4lb. bags with each bag being a different protein source and it lasts me close to 3 months which is amazing. However, I still do give her kibble at night for dinner since she used to be super picky and has always loved Blue Buffalo Wilderness kibble. Still, the smallest bag of kibble lasts almost 2 months. It's such a good feeling to see your dog eating their food willingly. I love watching Sasha eat and be satisfied lol. :D

No stores here sell Primal:( but I can get Nature's Variety and one other brand (can't remember the name, but they didn't seem to like it much - Alice wouldn't touch it). I've used NV in the past, never with Alice though, but it can get sooo expensive with 5 mouths to feed (especially since one of them is 75 lbs. lol) so that's why I looked into "homemade". It's simpler than I thought - the main thing you have to add is calcium (egg shell "powder" is best) to aid in the breakdown of the protien (pre-packaged has enough in it) and make sure they're getting some bone and organs, so it's good to know I can "afford" to feed raw :). I'll probably use some NV also, just because looking at the ingredients it has a few "extras" in there and I really like that their food has the Montmorillonite clay in it (has something like 50+ trace minerals in it). Ahh, finally though, no more "begging" Alice to eat :D It was like a miracle this morning lol

Alice sounds like Duke.

Duke never really liked kibble and frankly wouldn't eat it half the time.

How that we are on raw, he LOVES to eat. haha.

Good luck with the switch!

I would love to be able to feed Lexie homemade raw because just like your babies when i put down her bowl of kibble she sniffs and just looks at me. Eventually she'll pick at it and eat but probably only because shes hungry and that's all thats there. I get the feeling she doesn't mind it but shes not over the moon about it. The other day i gave her a small piece of raw steak i was preparing and she wolfed it down and even cried for more!. Because i don't have time to prepare homemade i'm gonna start feeding her NV raw, depending on how she does i might switch her completely. We don't have Primal here either and hopefully price wise it will be fine because she's my only pup :). Glad you found something you're babies enjoy eating and is so good for them

As a fellow Ontarian, I just want to mention that I use pre-made raw from here in Ontario. The company is called Bold and Raw...Raw Food Supplier For You Dog or Cat Not that I have any concerns about American dog food, but I figure if I can buy local, that is better. My girls have both been on it for about a year, and I really love it. If it is not available in a pet store near you, they will deliver to your door (or they used to, the company is really growing). You should check them out!

Congrats! We switched this week too. Im doing premade as none sell locally and I am not ready to do prey model.

Thanks I checked them and wouldn't mind giving them a try but it seems like they only have 2 protien sources right now, chicken and turkey. Lexie's fav is beef and lamb. Hopefully they'll have more selection soon it would be nice to buy locally

I know they have rabbit (I've used it), and I know they have Elk and Beef tripe...maybe they have not updated their website. But I've gotten the rabbit and have seen the elk tripe and elk bones at my local raw supplier. They are also great if you need to ask questions. I asked about fat content in one of their foods and received an e-mail back within 36 hours...thought it was pretty good turn around time.

:) I'm actually going to do both (pre-made and "homemade"). Even thoug I've researched it, I don't know if I can handle full on prey model right yet - kinda freaky lol plus I'm just worried I'm not going to do it right (the whole meat/bone/organ ratio). So I picked up some NV patties at a petstore and some of their turkey necks and I'll combine that with the venison I have and chicken from the store.:D

Great choice. Im with you on being scared to get it wrong. Im doing stella and chewys lamb patties for now and the ordering primal online. she is happy with her raw but it seems such a little bit so she keeps beggjng for more. Lol

Apparently it's easy:rolleyes:, you just have to make sure it's 80% meat, 10% soft edible bone, 10% organs. My thing (for now anyway) is, I've always given them raw chicken and turkey necks once or twice a week to clean their teeth, but I only let them go to town on that outside. It's obviously not possible to feed them all outside twice a day (especially the kitties;)) so I need and easier way to get the required bone in there. As far as organs, lol I don't think I'll ever be able to feed a raw liver blah lol. Freeze dried liver treats are a good replacement for that though:) I wish I could afford to feed them all just the NV patties, since that's all balanced, with the twice a week raw bones for their teeth and (apparently) "mental" health LOL (something I read;)) since that would be so much easier. I'll figure out a good system eventually that works for them as well as our pockets:D I've also thought about using the nature's variety instinct kibble for one meal per day or at least every other day to cut down the cost (this goes against what some "prey model feeders" will say), but the NV website explains that much research has been done to prove that feeding both raw and grain free kibble or canned is fine (I still won't mix it in the same meal though, I'm not convinced it will digest properly) and Alice is fine with this as long as each meal is different and I really rotate (raw breakfast, some kibble w/ canned for dinner and a different protien source of the canned each day). I think they'll be really happy that way too, getting something different each meal and they'll still get the benefits of raw and a completely grain free diet and enjoy eating:D

Which online co. do you get the Primal from? I've looked at Petfooddirect.com since they have NV and Stella and Chewys at better prices than the store here, but the shipping for frozen is outrageous, so it's not worth it.

Going raw I read another thread that you have to supplement them with vitamins?
So you can't just feed them the raw meat, occassional egg, etc... is there a good thread about going raw?

Little Pooter LOVES raw steak, but with his sensitive stomach I've been to scared to try him on an all raw diet. I know Tikka would just love it though she's got the stomach of a 200lb man at a hotdog eating contest lol!!

You don't have to give any suppliments as long as you have the meat/bone/organ ratio (80%,10%,10%) right. You can't only feed raw meat and not give the bones or organs. If they don't get the bone they won't get enough calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the raw meat which would be bad for their kindeys and they will get loose stools. The organs have a lot of the other vitamins in it they need (that's why you usually see liver as an ingredient in high quality kibble). If you use pre-packaged frozen raw dog food, it has the right amount of ground bones and organs in it. I read that if you are feeding raw meat only with out any bones, you have to suppliment with ground egg shells for the calcium but that won't help with the loose poops. It's also good to have about 5% veggies and certain fruits in the diet because "prey" would have that in their intestinal tract that the wolf would eat. The veggies have to be very finely ground though for the dog to be able to extract the nutrients from it, otherwise it'll just come out the same way it went in:p and be useless.

Some people use the "green" tripe of beef, lamb or elk in stead of veggies/fruit. And although I haven't done a lot of reading on the Prey model, that would make sense, as the tripe is the stomach lining which apparently wild carnivores eat first. My girls love tripe...I haven't yet met a dog who doesn't...but the smell is very very off putting for the humans :DMy raw food store sells the green tripe, raw for dogs/cats...but I've also served Tripet canned tripe, it's very good for picky eaters in general.

Stella and Chewys is an awesome brand of frozen or freeze-dried raw dinners. Tiny LOVES them! Totally worth the $$. Try on line for decent discounts. :aimeeyork

I've been toying with the raw diet for months now. First, Nicky didn't like it (I would give them 'a taste' from the meat I was cooking--raw) Nini did like it. Then Nicky got Pancrititis and I decided to wait until he was better. He's better now and I'm back into looking and researching.

A couple of weeks ago I gave them a piece of chicken bone (raw) and Nicky got a bit constipated---I freaked. I tried it again with just a piece of raw chicken, nothing happened, but I'm scared. Has any of your babies had any negative reaction the first times you fed raw?

Maybe I was jumping the gun and shouldn't have given them the chicken bone? I was afraid of the pre-made thinking that I may miss a vitamin or something if I didn't feed straight raw.

My other problem is convincing hb, he's sold on what the vet tells him :( So, I've decided to start slowly with pre-made behind hb's back. I just gotta figure out how to do it :D

Apparently too much bone can cause constipation and too much meat can cause diarrhea. I had an issue because I "jumped the gun" too, but in the opposite direction that you did lol. I gave them all raw venison with no bone and Alice and my Akita had wicked diarrhea. Totally my fault, Alice wouldn't eat any of her Orijen kibble (now I realize she was just sick of getting it for every single meal:rolleyes:), so out of despiration and an 'idea' i gave the raw meat. Should have researched first or went with pre-made.

You'll have to watch with the pancreatitis too, can't give too much fat. I've read alot of pancreatitis success stories on the NV web site though;)

I've researed both (prey-model and pre-made) extensively in the past few days and I think we're mainly going the pre-made route, especially after my 'mistake'. If you're going to do it prey model, you have to get the meat/bone ratio right and also give some organs (like liver) sometimes. After I researched and learned my mistake, I bought a whole chicken (it has to be under 100mg. sodium) and cut it all up into portions - let me tell ya, that was TOO much work for me and not to mention, umm gross lol. Some people have no problem at all doing it that way and maybe if I only had large dogs and could just give them big pieces, it wouldn't be as much work. Soooo, I've decided to go mainly the pre-maid route and just give them raw meaty bones outside once a week for dental health.

I also researched the different pre-maid companies and I've decided to go with Narure's Variety - they do something called HPP, which kills any bad bacteria but leaves a majority of the good ones (one of the main reasons raw is so good for pets). The pre-made is also "complete and balanced" - well, I know the NV is and it's AFCO approved, so you know for sure you're not missing anything. I've been rotating the raw with the NV Instinct (grain-free)kibble and cans to keep the cost down, but they're all still getting raw at least 1 meal per day. This isn't the cheapest way to go, but it's definatly the easiest and cleanest and I don't have to worry about messing up. I've been feeding them all this way for a week and everyone's happily eating (including Alice, even when i give the kibble since it's not every meal:D) and no problems at all.:)

Prey model is wonderfull if you can handle it and are dedicated, but you have to reaserch first and get the ratios right. I learned a TON researching (and with some awesome help from Wyle's Mom:D), so if you have any questions, let me know:)

For anybody interested in learning more, this was VERY informative, plus you can just sit back and listen instead of reading and reading;):

Watch the Raw Webinar!

Alice, sorry if I missed it but how many dogs do you have? And do you buy the medallions or the chubs, how long does 1 package last for your yorkie

I have been feeding mine RAW for over a year now, I too went through the whole getting the balance thing correct and it was quite a challenge to get it right and it really depends a lot on just watching how your doggies react and their condition.
Now I am to the point I supplement Ziwi Peak with a small amount of meat and bones this seems to work very well as I do not have the same amount of time I had before to source all the components for a strictly RAW diet. IMO this is a good balance of nutrients and they still get to eat meat which they love, Ziwi peak does recommend feeding bones as a add on. Mine are very partial to stew meat with pork coming in 2nd, chicken (this is what they started on) they kinda push around a little now but will still eat it.

Thank you ! :thumbup: I think I will go the pre-made route too. I've seen videos of someone I befriended on FB to learn about raw feeding and I couldn't even watch most of the videos.

What I saw her baby and her other friend's babies eat, scared me lol. What if my babies start looking at my neighbors rabbit in a weird way :eek: :D
But seriously, I couldn't feed my little ones that way, not only disgusting in a sad way, but broke my heart (baby pigs, baby deer, rabbit, etc). I couldn't cut any of those up, I think I'd faint...

When I gave my little ones the chicken bone, and then the piece of chicken, they didn't want to eat their kibble at all. I think they were holding out for more of what I had given them before :rolleyes: How do you manage to give raw for breakfast and kibble (sometimes) with can for dinner?

I think once my little ones go raw, they'll never go back to kibble (???) But, then again, if they don't want to see kibble ever again, I'll cross that bridge when I get there, right?

I just talk to someone about NV and he said he'll help me out with choosing the flavors, etc when I see him on Saturday (they know me--panicky, freakout-easy furbutt parent)

:cry: I just spoke with a service team at NV because on the video they said it may not be good for dogs with Pancreatitis. The lady on the phone confirmed it, I can't feed raw to Nicky and I can't make him watch Nini eat raw while he's on kibble :(

We don't feed raw (yet) but we always give Sugar her kibble first. When her kibble is gone, she gets a spoon of canned food (yum yum). Most meals she gets both, but once in awhile she leaves some of her kibble and we just start back with the next meal: finish your kibble (dinner) and then you can have dessert (yummy canned food). Just like kids, except it's extra important to be consistent.

Ya know what's weird about doing that, Alice got to a point before I started the raw where she wouldn't touch kibble at all and was even very picky about canned. Every since I started the one raw meal a day, she gobbles the kibble right up for dinner like she never did before, staight out of her bowl even:D!. I did go raw exclusively for a few days first though where she had no kibble at all (she wouldn't eat the kibble anyway), but once I intergrated the kibble back in, she eats it wonderfully, I don't even need to mix the canned in every day (I've just been doing it to keep them from getting bored since I buy the 30# bag and it lasts a while). I did switch her from Orijen to NV kibble, but I'd offered her NV kibble before giving any raw and she didn't seem to want it.

Idk, something about it being a different "form" at the different meals of the day works perfectly for both Alice and my picky Akita. As long as they get that raw for breakfast, they're good to go with kibble and maybe some canned for dinner. I don't know why it worked but it did and beautifully, no more pickyness AT ALL. Every NV product I've offered them since adding the raw, they ate great, it's crazy, but I'm thirlled that I don't have any more "eating battles" lol.

I can't remember what you originaly said - did you only give them a small piece of raw steak or something? Maybe that's why, because they didn't get the full meal of raw? Idk, these little dogs are so funny about their food. lol

:( I thing remember reading a testimonial on there about a pancreatitis case doing well on, I think the organic chicken one? I could be wrong though. I'd imagine they wouldn't want to advise you to do anything to compromise your dog's health. You'd probably have to get the guidance and ok from a vet nutritionist to do it a certain way and only certain things.:( Would he be allowed to have on of their kibble formulas? Of course you'd have to ask your vet, but I only ask because I know all their kibble has a small amount of raw freeze dried coating on each piece of kibble, so maybe they could still get the benefits from raw that way?? Idk though, you'd have to check.

Absolutely right. I have seen no evidence to indicate that the raw diet is bad for pancreatitis. What is bad is the high fat content in most or all prepackaged raw food.

While I'm not suggesting that this is a good option, if you are set on feeding raw, prey model with extremely reduced fat may be an option (could be formulated by a veterinary nutritionist, but some of them are really against it, so it's not their favorite thing to formulate...). Even then though, with raw chunks of meat, the fat may be difficult to pick off. So it could still be risky.

Besides one Yorkie, I also have a 75# Akita and a 30# Beagle plus 2 cats lol:D

I started with the medallions because they're the easiest to portion out (especially for a Yorkie or other small dog or a cat). Now that I'm getting used to each of what their individual amounts looks like, I can get the more economical chubs. (I may even get a little kitchen scale to help me)

The medallions are 1 oz. each and there's 48 in a bag for around $20. The chubs are 32 oz. for about $8. So, the chubs are less $ per oz., but it's a little trickier to figure out the portions without a scale. The only other thing about getting the chubs, you have to be sure you'll use it all within 3-4 days of thawing the whole thing (I will with my little zoo here:)) unless you can figure out a way to cut it while frozen, but good luck with that lol.

I'll just use Alice for an example to give you idea - Alice weighs 5 lbs. and is still growing so she gets 2 oz. (or 2 medallions) in the AM and aprox. 1/4 cup of the grain-free kibble PM.

Sooo, for a 5 lb. Yorkie, if you fed ONLY the raw, 1 bag of medallions would last about 12 days at aprox. $20.

You can imagine this would get $$$$ feeding my crew, especially the Akita, so that's why I use the kibble for one meal, it's cuts the cost greatly (the kibble is actually cheaper than the Orijen I was using and they seem to like it better). Cost is also why I was originaly going to go with prey-model, but for right now, that's too much work, I'd rather pay the extra $ for it to be easy:D

LOL, I feel like a NV sales rep LOL, they should really give me a job. hahaha

:thumbup: I think the story I read only used the organic chicken formula and was directed by their personal vet to do so. I guess that formula is significantly lower in fat?? It's also MUCH more expensive though.

I didn't read all the testimonials, I'll have to go back and search for it. The lady at the NV said that I could use Prairy kibble, but to check with my vet first :( Will do, but with a nutritionist vet. I made the appointment for the 14th. Hopefully, she'll help me with this.

I don't think that I'll risk it with the prey model, it's too scary for me that I could make Nicky's condition worse :( I\'ll wait to see what the nutritionist-vet tells me, hopefully there\'s a way around it.