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01-04-2010, 10:42 PM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Queens
Posts: 9
| Concerned Mama - Liver shunt I'm going stir crazy.. Xmas morning my boy (2 yrs 2 mon) had a seizure.. the first and hoping last... I rushed him to ER, and then we went onto blood work (showing his ALT and ALKP were extremely high) , and bile acid tests (pre and post both extremely high) and finally the ultrasound (noticed blood being diverted from liver). Mind you, Rocky has never shown any signs pointing to a liver shunt. He's normally very active, social, eats well (minus the occassional vomitting which the vets had said it wasnt cause for concern) On New Years Eve I began his medication (metronidazole and lactulose and a homecooked low-protein diet) .. so it's been about 5-6 days.. and I'm noticing now that he's exhibiting the symptoms of a liver shunt.. he seems unresponsive at times (never before) and he started pacing or circling as they call it.. and I really have to work to get him to play for a few minutes.. I informed the specialist who prescribed him the medication to which I received this as a reply "In terms of the behavior change, the only connection that I can make between the liver shunt, medications and this change is that perhaps his overactivity was a sign of hepatic encephalopathy (increased ammonia in the brain) and now that we're controlling that he has calmed down. As long as he is not significantly lethargic, I would not be concerned. Continue to monitor him and keep me updated. Overall though, I think these might be signs of improvement. " For some reason this is just not sitting well with me.. we have about another 3 weeks before we will be able to operate.. and I'm extremely worried and have a feeling this metronidazole s actually making him worse. Has anyone experienced this,who can offer some advice. |
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01-05-2010, 02:48 AM | #2 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I wouldn't be comfortable with that answer either, especially if he has acted the same for the last two years. Hepatic encephalopathy usually comes and goes (depending on how the liver is processing things). I wold be concerned about the unresponsiveness. What food was he on for the last two years and what are the ingredients of the homecooked diet including supplements? What is the lactulose dose and how many times a day? Metro is used extensively with LS, but problems are't unheard of... Could you go to Cornell for a consult? They are the LS experts in NY and probably the safest place to have surgery done there...
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
01-05-2010, 03:45 AM | #3 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Queens
Posts: 9
| For the past 2 years he's been on Caeser and Eukanuba.. along with the occassional homecooked me of boiled chicken and rice, or beef an rice. The LP Home cooked meal now.. 1/4 lb of beef, 2 cups rice, 3 slices of white bread, 1 hard boiled egg. (It yields about 1 1/4 lb, which he has 1/4lb of it a day spread out between 3 meals.) The lactulose is administered 3 x daily - 1/2ml each dose.. and the Metro is 2x Daily 1 ml each dose. I havent heard about Cornell, he is currently under the care of the AMC in NY, but I think I'l give Cornell a call and see what they say.. I hate seeing him like this, and am afraid. |
01-05-2010, 07:09 AM | #4 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Cornell and University of Tennessee are the leaders in LS. Dr. Sharon Center at Cornell developed the bile acids test. That would be the best place to go for this surgery in NY. When toxins build up in the system, hepatic encepholapthy (neurologic symptoms) can occur. They can get lethargic. Some foods produce high amounts of ammonia and some liver compromised dogs can't handle these foods. Red meat is one of them. Non-meat protein is a good choice. Depending on the individual dog, soy or cottage may work. Some also do well on eggs and fish. So the red meat could be negatively affecting him.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
01-05-2010, 07:21 AM | #5 | |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
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I see you live in Queens, I would suppose Cornell would be the closest option for you.
__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers | |
01-05-2010, 04:32 PM | #6 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Queens
Posts: 9
| Thank you soooooo much for the referral.. I emailed Dr. Center and she called me back within minutes. She is awesome, and truly loves animals. I am going to schedule an appointment for her to see Rocky within the next 2 wks.. and hopefully my lil boy can go back to being himself.. It appears that the metronidazole was too high of a dosage for my guy making him dopey.. I'm taking him off for a few days to get him back to normal.. and switching his diet over to the Hills L.S. .. I'm surprised I was given a home recipe that included beef.. It's just scary how you think a specialist would know what can trigger these things. So sad! |
01-05-2010, 04:48 PM | #7 | |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
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__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers | |
01-05-2010, 04:57 PM | #8 |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
| I take that back....checked the website.....not there.
__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers |
01-16-2010, 07:36 PM | #9 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ste-Agathe, Qc, Canada
Posts: 19
| Rocky 38 is that home cooked meal the same one from the University of Tennessee web page? Looking forward to hearing the results of your meeting with Dr. Center as I may have to do similar for my little guy. Best of luck. |
01-17-2010, 07:01 AM | #10 | |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
| Quote:
dogs with liver shunt should be eating a highly digestible low protein diet like fish, egg whites, soy, vegetarian please join this group IMMEDIATELY they will help you a ton Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support@yahoogroups.com if you are going to home cook the best is dr dodds liver cleansing diet Last edited by dwerten; 01-17-2010 at 07:03 AM. | |
01-17-2010, 07:09 AM | #11 | |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
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I was thinking the same thing about the metronidazole and think the combo of those two things diet including were causing this. It kills me how you can talk to 3 different vets and get three different answers on medication - SCARY just happened to me this week - some are more aggressive with meds than others sadly that is why with something serious i get to a specialist of which dr centers is an internal medicine specialist with this disease BUT dr tobias at university of tennessee is the top surgeon for this so if you can get to her if surgery is needed then that is best - my only concern is due to age it is multiple shunts and those cannot be repaired only single shunts and why yorkies should be tested at a young age so if it is a shunt the single is repaired early so multiples are not blown. If multiples and surgery not an option then dr centers can direct you further with that what happens with multiples is the body will adapt sometimes to the shunt by blowing out more shunts and probably why you did not see any signs as body was adapting but eventually it cannot adapt any longer and signs are shown. This just happened to a 4 year old yorkie i helped and the only sign was bladder stones that showed up at 4 and he had 4 shunts when tobias did surgery so she could not repair. | |
01-17-2010, 07:11 AM | #12 | |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
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01-17-2010, 07:13 AM | #13 |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
| was he acting different after eating as that is usually when it hits after eating the food and then you were probably giving antibiotic with food as you should thus making it worse |
01-17-2010, 07:39 AM | #14 |
Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member | oh wow - I'm so sorry There are lots of threads about LS and I hope you find some answers and get help if it is. GOOD LUCK ! poor little guy |
01-29-2011, 09:34 AM | #15 | |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Morgantown
Posts: 44
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