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-   -   Pre-op bloodwork: Is it necessary?? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-health-diet/220061-pre-op-bloodwork-necessary.html)

yli009 01-10-2011 07:34 AM
Pre-op bloodwork: Is it necessary??
 
Ah so I'm having a bit of a dilemma. I made an appointment to have Brady neutered at a low cost clinic (SpayNow) that was recommended by some YT members. However, it's kind of far from me so I was planning to get the pre-op bloodwork done at his vet, which they quoted me for $60 on previous paperwork. But when I called in, they said it would be more than $100!!! SpayNow offers it for $35 so I called to see if they could squeeze me in before his neutering and they can but they kept telling me that bloodwork is not required and they don't see any reason to get it if he's healthy.

I've read stories on YT about sudden issues during surgery due to lack of pre-op bloodwork so I don't know if I should take the chance. What do you guys think??? Should I definitely get it??? Please help!!

kjc 01-10-2011 07:41 AM
I would never not do pre-op bloodwork, especially for a first time surgery on a Yorkie. Just not worth the risk to me.

shodanusmc 01-10-2011 07:50 AM
If you were having surgery, would you turn down blood work before they knocked you out? Get the blood work. Chances are......you never really know. Pets have been lost by not getting it done, even from a teeth cleaning.

Ladymom 01-10-2011 07:51 AM
Please, please get the bloodwork done! It's especially important for Yorkies to have it done since the breed is prone to liver disease. Anesthesia is processed through the liver.

Do you know what type of anesthesia they are using? You have to be very careful with those low cost spay neuter clinics as toy breeds need a special protocol.

Have you read this?

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-protocol.html

Britster 01-10-2011 08:03 AM
I highly recommend the specific place you're going to :) They are all very nice, the place is super clean, they are actually making it bigger right now. The techs in there are knowledgeable too. I was just in there last week to get the heartworm/lyme test. They are basically our primary vet (I've taken him in there for most of his shots, etc) but we do have a vet closer to us.

With that said, I did *not* get pre-op bloodwork for Jackson but now I would opt to definitely get it. Sometimes I just insist on getting stuff done, and they are understanding of that. When Jackson got neutered there, he had not yet had his rabies shot and the receptionist just said 'oh we'll just give him the shot when he comes in for his neuter' but I was not comfortable with that. So I just talked to the tech and vet and they agreed with me. So it's just a matter of speaking up for yourself and your dog. :)

Ellie May 01-10-2011 08:35 AM
It is not an absolute requirement; however, I have no idea why anyone would choose to skip it! And I don't think it's right for a vet to try to talk you out of it. Just ask yourself this. If you opt out of it and a complication occurs resulting in death that would have been caught before, how are you going to feel? Guilt? Much better to just get it! An IV catherter is also not something you want to skip

Ringo1 01-10-2011 08:43 AM
Yes, please get it done. If your baby has any health issues, including liver issues, it could affect the amount and type of anesthesia used. The vet needs to know and I second all the others in wondering why they are trying to talk you out of it.

ladyjane 01-10-2011 09:02 AM
I agree with everything others have said. I always do bloodwork prior to any procedure that requires anesthesia.

roseslevi 01-10-2011 09:02 AM
Preanethetic Blood Work Up

Before any major surgery I suggest you have your veterinarian perform a B.U.N. and creatinine test to gauge kidney health and ALT, AP, bilirubin, and cholesterol tests to detect liver problems. Glucose analysis and total blood proteins detect diabetes or other debilitating diseases and an EKG may detect heart problems. Include a hematocrit, a differential and total white blood cell count. It is extremely rare for all these tests to be normal in a dog that is a high anesthetic risk. When we know of problems in advance we can make modifications in anesthesia that protect your pet's life.


Quoted from a veterinarian advise website

107barney 01-10-2011 09:08 AM
Absolutely you need to do bloodwork. Not only that you should make sure it includes a urinalysis. The last routine blood draw I did on one of my dogs included a urinalysis and to make a long story short, we had to treat her for an infection that would otherwise not have been picked up without the urinalysis.

I also believe that preventative care is important. My dogs have their blood work done annually, and now that two are older, it is done very 6-9 months. This is true whether or not they need a procedure. In fact, Barney has not had anesthesia since he was neutered 10 years ago but he has had many blood draws, and other routine vet care, and has enjoyed good health as a result. Being well is less expensive than being sick, trust me!!

ladyjane 01-10-2011 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3388107)
Absolutely you need to do bloodwork. Not only that you should make sure it includes a urinalysis. The last routine blood draw I did on one of my dogs included a urinalysis and to make a long story short, we had to treat her for an infection that would otherwise not have been picked up without the urinalysis.

I also believe that preventative care is important. My dogs have their blood work done annually, and now that two are older, it is done very 6-9 months. This is true whether or not they need a procedure. In fact, Barney has not had anesthesia since he was neutered 10 years ago but he has had many blood draws, and other routine vet care, and has enjoyed good health as a result. Being well is less expensive than being sick, trust me!!
That is so true. Short cutting on preventative vet care is penny wise pound foolish.

cally930 01-10-2011 09:16 AM
Yes!!! Definitely get it. No, ifs, ands or buts about it.

Buster Brown 01-10-2011 09:18 AM
It is always better to be safe then sorry. Also this way you will have the blood work on file if you ever have to compare the bloodwork at a later date.

Ladymom 01-10-2011 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3388070)
An IV catherter is also not something you want to skip
:thumbup: In case of an emergency, an IV catheter will give the vet instant access to your pet's circulatory system. It can save his life.

Please ask this clinic lots of questions. Some low cost spay neuter clinics skip important procedures like bloodwork, don't use isoflurane, don't give pain meds afterwards, etc. It may be safer to have your regular vet do his neuter.

Does Brady have any retained baby teeth? It is customary to remove them during the spay or neuter. Will the clinic remove them? Many low cost clinics won't. If Brady has to have them removed separately by his regular vet, it will end up costing you more in the long run plus Brady will have to undergo a second anesthesia.

DvlshAngel985 01-10-2011 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3388131)
:thumbup: In case of an emergency, an IV catheter will give the vet instant access to your pet's circulatory system. It can save his life.

Please ask this clinic lots of questions. Some low cost spay neuter clinics skip important procedures like bloodwork, don't use isoflurane, don't give pain meds afterwards, etc. It may be safer to have your regular vet do his neuter.

Does Brady have any retained baby teeth? It is customary to remove them during the spay or neuter. Will the clinic remove them? Many low cost clinics won't. If Brady has to have them removed separately by his regular vet, it will end up costing you more in the long run plus Brady will have to undergo a second anesthesia.
I hope you don't mind me asking but why not? (see bolded) I didn't give pain meds after the second day. But that was after learning they made Kaji hyper and uncontrollable. I thought he would hurt himself if he carried on the way he did. After I stopped giving the pain meds, he was very calm.

oh, and to stay on subject. Another vote pro pre-op blood work. It just gives us piece of mind.

ladyjane 01-10-2011 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3388131)
:thumbup: In case of an emergency, an IV catheter will give the vet instant access to your pet's circulatory system. It can save his life.

Please ask this clinic lots of questions. Some low cost spay neuter clinics skip important procedures like bloodwork, don't use isoflurane, don't give pain meds afterwards, etc. It may be safer to have your regular vet do his neuter.

Does Brady have any retained baby teeth? It is customary to remove them during the spay or neuter. Will the clinic remove them? Many low cost clinics won't. If Brady has to have them removed separately by his regular vet, it will end up costing you more in the long run plus Brady will have to undergo a second anesthesia.
Excellent points!

Ladymom 01-10-2011 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3388153)
I hope you don't mind me asking but why not? (see bolded) I didn't give pain meds after the second day. But that was after learning they made Kaji hyper and uncontrollable. I thought he would hurt himself if he carried on the way he did. After I stopped giving the pain meds, he was very calm.

oh, and to stay on subject. Another vote pro pre-op blood work. It just gives us piece of mind.
Many of the low cost clinics are bare bones and just do the procedure itself. Some, like those run by the SPCA, are wonderful and do bloodwork, give an injection for pain right afterwards, etc.

It's just important to ask a lot of questions beforehand to make sure your dog will be getting the same level of care.

Ellie May 01-10-2011 10:41 AM
BTW, I think it's a very good idea to volunteer at your local spay clinic before letting your dog have surgery there.There are fantastic non-profs that do these surgeries. There are many that are dives. I've volunteered at a place that does these things and I would never, ever let Ellie have surgery there. In contrast, her vet office is the cleanest, most organized place with amazing staff. IMO, volunteering is a good way to find a lot of things out about the place (in addition to asking many questions).

Furbaby Friend 01-10-2011 10:56 AM
To the OP. Please get the pre-op blood work done. I JUST had Rylie spayed this past Friday and we went in for the blood work on Thursday prior. It is very important you get it done.

I opted in for the catheter and the IV as well because not only do they administer fluids that way so the recovery is smoother (most pups don't want to eat drink that first day and the IV prevented my baby from becoming dehydrated), they can administer LIFE SAVING medication directly into your pup's system if something goes wrong. PLEASE READ that anesthesia protocol linked earlier as the type of anesthesia does matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3388153)
I hope you don't mind me asking but why not? (see bolded) I didn't give pain meds after the second day. But that was after learning they made Kaji hyper and uncontrollable. I thought he would hurt himself if he carried on the way he did. After I stopped giving the pain meds, he was very calm.

oh, and to stay on subject. Another vote pro pre-op blood work. It just gives us piece of mind.
My vet said it was important to continue Rylie's pain meds until all of them were gone because they have anti-inflammatory properties as well and it would help with her recovery and keep the swelling down. I asked about discontinuing them early when I was there if she was being too active. They told me to keep her on them and if I had to crate her to prevent her from being too active. Granted Kaji may have gotten different meds. :)

DvlshAngel985 01-10-2011 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend (Post 3388291)
To the OP. Please get the pre-op blood work done. I JUST had Rylie spayed this past Friday and we went in for the blood work on Thursday prior. It is very important you get it done.

I opted in for the catheter and the IV as well because not only do they administer fluids that way so the recovery is smoother (most pups don't want to eat drink that first day and the IV prevented my baby from becoming dehydrated), they can administer LIFE SAVING medication directly into your pup's system if something goes wrong. PLEASE READ that anesthesia protocol linked earlier as the type of anesthesia does matter.



My vet said it was important to continue Rylie's pain meds until all of them were gone because they have anti-inflammatory properties as well and it would help with her recovery and keep the swelling down. I asked about discontinuing them early when I was there if she was being too active. They told me to keep her on them and if I had to crate her to prevent her from being too active. Granted Kaji may have gotten different meds. :)
I honestly cannot remember at this moment what kind he had. Maybe he just had a reaction to them. His system could not handle the meds? I'm not exaggerating one bit when I say the difference between who he is and how he was acting was night and day. I couldn't handle him, keep him quiet, keep him from jumping, or anything. It was like someone gave him a giant coffee with TONS of sugar and whatnot. We didn't get any sleep that night, and he was howling, barking, growling, and was overall jumpy at any movement and shadows. It was horrible. :(

Maybe this is one of the consequences of bad breeding? I honestly don't know what happened.

Ladymom 01-10-2011 11:24 AM
I forgot to mention that you need to ask the clinic if they use a heating pad, etc. to make sure he will be kept warm enough during the procedure. Sevoflurane especially tends to drop body temperature in toy breeds so they need to be closely monitored.

Furbaby Friend 01-10-2011 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3388309)
I honestly cannot remember at this moment what kind he had. Maybe he just had a reaction to them. His system could not handle the meds? I'm not exaggerating one bit when I say the difference between who he is and how he was acting was night and day. I couldn't handle him, keep him quiet, keep him from jumping, or anything. It was like someone gave him a giant coffee with TONS of sugar and whatnot. We didn't get any sleep that night, and he was howling, barking, growling, and was overall jumpy at any movement and shadows. It was horrible. :(

Maybe this is one of the consequences of bad breeding? I honestly don't know what happened.
I'm not saying that you should have continued meds with Kaji. It sounds like they didn't sit well with him. I don't think that is necessarily bad breeding either, everyone is just different. They're like people! :)

I was just commenting because the OP SHOULD ask about meds because they might be optional at the clinic and I think pain meds are an important thing to consider because not all dogs will have a poor reaction and apparently they help with recovery or at least Rylie's do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3388319)
I forgot to mention that you need to ask the clinic if they use a heating pad, etc. to make sure he will be kept warm enough during the procedure. Sevoflurane especially tends to drop body temperature in toy breeds so they need to be closely monitored.
This is also in the question portion of the anesthesia protocol linked earlier. Please read it OP! :thumbup::) Lots of good info there.

DvlshAngel985 01-10-2011 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend (Post 3388327)
I'm not saying that you should have continued meds with Kaji. It sounds like they didn't sit well with him. I don't think that is necessarily bad breeding either, everyone is just different. They're like people! :)

I was just commenting because the OP SHOULD ask about meds because they might be optional at the clinic and I think pain meds are an important thing to consider because not all dogs will have a poor reaction and apparently they help with recovery or at least Rylie's do.



This is also in the question portion of the anesthesia protocol linked earlier. Please read it OP! :thumbup::) Lots of good info there.
Oh no, I completely understand. I wanted to make it clear this, as far as I know, only happened with Kaji. It's an isolated incident and not what normally happens with pain meds. Them not sitting well with Kaji is an understatement, believe me. I actually wanted to hear more from Ladymom. She put in her post that no meds is better. I'd love to hear more about it.

Ladymom 01-10-2011 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3388333)
Oh no, I completely understand. I wanted to make it clear this, as far as I know, only happened with Kaji. It's an isolated incident and not what normally happens with pain meds. Them not sitting well with Kaji is an understatement, believe me. I actually wanted to hear more from Ladymom. She put in her post that no meds is better. I'd love to hear more about it.
I think you misunderstood my post. I said just the opposite, that sometimes the low cost clinics skip pain meds and that was a concern. Most dogs need a shot for pain immediately after and pain meds for a few days.

DvlshAngel985 01-10-2011 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3388355)
I think you misunderstood my post. I said just the opposite, that sometimes the low cost clinics skip pain meds and that was a concern. Most dogs need a shot for pain immediately after and pain meds for a few days.
I'm sorry. I did misunderstand. I was so hoping you could shed some light on the pain meds topic. :p I'm dreading the LP surgery, and I wanted to see if there was something I should be researching. SORRY!

Ellie May 01-10-2011 12:21 PM
If the meds make a pup so hyper that not even cage rest works, then it is probably best to skip them. But there are quite a few to choose from, so if one doesn't work another could be tried. I would try several before discontinuing, particular for a spay, because they are in pain whether they show it or not. I just don't feel right about making them be in any pain after I chose to have a surgery done. They heal faster pain free anyway.

My first guess is that Kaji was on Ultram (Tramadol). Whatever they used, they can try something else. There is no getting around it with ortho surgery though.

capt_noonie 01-10-2011 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yli009 (Post 3387989)
Ah so I'm having a bit of a dilemma. I made an appointment to have Brady neutered at a low cost clinic (SpayNow) that was recommended by some YT members. However, it's kind of far from me so I was planning to get the pre-op bloodwork done at his vet, which they quoted me for $60 on previous paperwork. But when I called in, they said it would be more than $100!!! SpayNow offers it for $35 so I called to see if they could squeeze me in before his neutering and they can but they kept telling me that bloodwork is not required and they don't see any reason to get it if he's healthy.

I've read stories on YT about sudden issues during surgery due to lack of pre-op bloodwork so I don't know if I should take the chance. What do you guys think??? Should I definitely get it??? Please help!!
Only $35 ??? why the heck not?

btw Uni's bloodwork was about $100 too. I say it's priceless to have a little bit more peace of mind. It sure did help me out.

Sammy Mommy 01-10-2011 12:34 PM
My vet will not do dental (or any surgery) without pre=op blood work. Better to be safe than sorry.

Ellie May 01-10-2011 12:36 PM
ETA: The difference could just be b/c one is a non-prof and the other is not OR the private practice is doing a more thorough check. The $35 may just be for a CBC which is not enough.

Yomom 01-10-2011 01:15 PM
Yes, and besides that Yes! My pup may now have a liver shunt and the first thing the Vet said is thank goodness we didn't put him to sleep to nueter him- anything liver related that your dog may have will cause issues with anesthesia. You won't know that without blood work. Having a dog, any dog is expensive and it's good to know that before the decision is made to purchase or adopt. Good luck!


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