For those of you who have had blood panels done for allergies...

[amaryl1ia]

..can you tell me what lab performed the test, what it tested for, and about how much it cost?

With the exception of carrots, celery, and blueberries, Ruby has been on a rabbit and potato canned food prescribed by her dermatologist for almost 12 weeks with only the sliiiightest bit of improvement and she's even been on an antihistamine for over 2 months now.

I'm seriously considering asking for an allergy blood panel to be done even though her dermatologist said they are generally not very accurate (50:50) or reproducible. Before I ask her to do it anyway, can you offer any suggestions as to what type or which lab performed the tests for your babies, what the test included, and how much it cost?

I found Bio-Medical Services - Allergy Testing - Canine, Feline and Equine which seems to be a good option, but I want to make sure I get as much info as I can before persuading her dermatologist for one...on the other hand, if you agree with her that these tests are generally a waste of money, please also let me know.

Thank you!

[Ellie May]

I think that's the one I heard good things about, but imo it is pretty much a waste of money. Ellie has allergies (food for sure and maybe environmental). I would not put money into it. Her nutritionist doesn't go with this type of testing either the last I knew. She is one of the most well known in the country. Looked at very highly... Elimination diet is the way to go. Were these ingredients novel to her? Who is guessing food allergies? It is very likely something else.

[amaryl1ia]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Elimination diet is the way to go. Were these ingredients novel to her? Who is guessing food allergies? It is very likely something else.

Thanks for your help, Ellie May!

When I first took her to a dermatologist in mid-December, they checked for flea bites, did skin scrapings to check for fungal infections, and said that they wanted to "rule out the easy ones". She was then put on Clindamycin (antibiotics) for inflamed areas of her skin and Mometamax for the yeast infection in her ear. They started her on canned Rabbit & potato as well since she's so young (6mo at the time) and I've only ever fed her Honest Kitchen Embark, Blue Buffalo Chicken/Rice for Puppy, and cooked ground turkey.

After a month without improvements, she was prescribed Clemastine (anti-histamine). I know the plan was to start her on a dietary trial/elimination diet once her itchiness reduced but it's been 2 months now of anti-histamine and I can't really say there's a noticeable improvement...although I guess she hasn't lost any more hair so that's good.

Here's a quick outline of what she's currently on:
* Canned Rabbit & Potato by Royal Canin (sometimes mixed in with plain boiled rabbit)
* Carrots, Celery, Blueberries
* 1 tablet/1.34mg Clemastine (anti-histamine) per day - she is 6lbs
* Mometamax every 10 days (to control/prevent yeast infection in her ears)
* Bath every 1-3 weeks with some combination of HyLyt shampoo, Virbac Epi-Soothe cream rinse (prescribed by general vet), EQyss Micro-Tek shampoo, and EQyss Mega-Tek Rebuilder (for her balding back legs).
* Revolution every 2 weeks (just in case it's fleas)
* She does not have any redness or infections in her skin, but around 3 weeks after a bath, small dandruff-looking flakes appear near her scalp.

At this point, I agree with you that it doesn't seem like her allergy is food-related, which is a relief actually. But if it isn't food, then is my only option to pay for the blood test? Are there any other way to figure out environmental sensitivities?

Thanks again for any advice you can give me (and sorry for this novel I'm writing). I was pretty optimistic when I found a recommended dermatologist for her but after 3 months without results and almost $1000, I'm hesitant to just keep scheduling follow-up appointments without finding out more info on my own and being prepared to make some suggestions.

[Ellie May]

Is it possible to post pics of any areas that she is losing hair? I am just about cluless when it comes to derm pics, but I think maybe some other YT'ers could take a look

Have you tried Atopica? This would be for envir allergies. If it works, then you pretty much have your answer. Not the healthiest drug in the world, but a very good choice. You could do the bloodwork. Personally I'd try the drug first. A bit backwards I suppose, but that's what I'd do.

It sounds like rabbit and potato were novel to her when you started the 12 week diet, so that really makes me think it's not food. But I don't have a list of all the ingredients in that food in front of me.

If antihistamines aren't doing much good after 2 or 3 weeks, I don't see a reason to keep giving them (unless they are helping slightly). You can try steroids and they may work, but that is really covering up the problem.

[amaryl1ia]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Is it possible to post pics of any areas that she is losing hair? I am just about cluless when it comes to derm pics, but I think maybe some other YT'ers could take a look

She actually doesn't have anything interesting to look at, just minor hair loss on her back legs that look like a bad haircut Her stomach was a bit pink when we first went to see the derm but it has since cleared up with antibiotics.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Have you tried Atopica? This would be for envir allergies. If it works, then you pretty much have your answer. Not the healthiest drug in the world, but a very good choice. You could do the bloodwork. Personally I'd try the drug first. A bit backwards I suppose, but that's what I'd do.

This sounds like a fantastic idea, will definitely ask about it. Do you know if it will also suppress food allergies? I guess if she is still itchy on Atopica then I'll know she's allergic to environmental stuff AND food? Ugh, so many variables!

Originally Posted by Ellie May

If antihistamines aren't doing much good after 2 or 3 weeks, I don't see a reason to keep giving them (unless they are helping slightly).

I agree, being on antihistamines for 2 months straight seems excessive, especially when it doesn't seem to improving the situation.

[Ellie May]

Atopica works for envir., not food. So if it takes care of the problem, it isn't food.

Now where in the world is Ann when we need her.
Gong to PM somebody for you.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by amaryl1ia

..can you tell me what lab performed the test, what it tested for, and about how much it cost?

With the exception of carrots, celery, and blueberries, Ruby has been on a rabbit and potato canned food prescribed by her dermatologist for almost 12 weeks with only the sliiiightest bit of improvement and she's even been on an antihistamine for over 2 months now.

I'm seriously considering asking for an allergy blood panel to be done even though her dermatologist said they are generally not very accurate (50:50) or reproducible. Before I ask her to do it anyway, can you offer any suggestions as to what type or which lab performed the tests for your babies, what the test included, and how much it cost?

I found Bio-Medical Services - Allergy Testing - Canine, Feline and Equine which seems to be a good option, but I want to make sure I get as much info as I can before persuading her dermatologist for one...on the other hand, if you agree with her that these tests are generally a waste of money, please also let me know.

Thank you!

i just went to derm yesterday and she said most accurate are VARL, HECKA AND GREER - i had full spectrum ad biomedical and she said neither are any good. If you have a dog with allergies i would strongly recommend you work with a dermatologist it will save you alot of frustration and money in the long run and they will get to the heart of the problem much faster

just saw you are going to derm PERFECT that is where you want to be and remember food is only 10% of the time allergy and 90% of the time it is environmental and antihistamines usually do not work in dogs but zyrtec is one they have seen more success with

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I think that's the one I heard good things about, but imo it is pretty much a waste of money. Ellie has allergies (food for sure and maybe environmental). I would not put money into it. Her nutritionist doesn't go with this type of testing either the last I knew. She is one of the most well known in the country. Looked at very highly... Elimination diet is the way to go. Were these ingredients novel to her? Who is guessing food allergies? It is very likely something else.

correct blood cannot determine food allergies only environmental and derm reiterated that yesterday and the only reason you do the allergy blood panel is if you are going to do hyposensitization shots which works in 85% of dogs otherwise a waste of money and derm told me she prefers blood testing in toy breeds as they have to shave both sides of dog and the blood is pretty accurate and dog has to be off steroids for 4 weeks with skin testing and no way could i do that with dd but for a dog not on steroids yet could be a possibility - it is the one thing i have not done for dd as was scared it would make her worse but it is the most natural way to treat it so may be worth a shot to try it before going to drugs as sometimes i regret not at least trying it at 5 1/2 years of treating allergies with drugs such as atopica and steroids and now that she is older she is getting worse

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Atopica works for envir., not food. So if it takes care of the problem, it isn't food.

Now where in the world is Ann when we need her.
Gong to PM somebody for you.

usually if they have allergies they have a combination food, flea, and environmental and atopica will only prevent environmental so if dog is still itching while on atopica then food is also a problem but usually they have all 3 very rarely they have just food so the only way to know if food is to do a 12 week elimination diet which sounds like you are doing with the rabbit food but you CANNOT give anything but that food for 12 weeks or you will not know what is going on so you have to be very strict and treat with that food as well if you need to treat. The dog cannot have had that protein or carb ever to rule out food allergy.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by amaryl1ia

She actually doesn't have anything interesting to look at, just minor hair loss on her back legs that look like a bad haircut Her stomach was a bit pink when we first went to see the derm but it has since cleared up with antibiotics.



This sounds like a fantastic idea, will definitely ask about it. Do you know if it will also suppress food allergies? I guess if she is still itchy on Atopica then I'll know she's allergic to environmental stuff AND food? Ugh, so many variables!



I agree, being on antihistamines for 2 months straight seems excessive, especially when it doesn't seem to improving the situation.

our dermatologist did antihistamine trials for 3 weeks on each antihistamine but usually they do not work in dogs unless combined with omega 3 which i like Welcome to Nordic Naturals as the omega 3 acts as an anti-inflammatory but first you need to rule out food allergy that is the first step so not surprised antihistamines are not working as they did not work in my dog and we did three different ones but people are having success with zyrtec and we did not try that one as part of our antihistamine trial

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by amaryl1ia

Thanks for your help, Ellie May!

When I first took her to a dermatologist in mid-December, they checked for flea bites, did skin scrapings to check for fungal infections, and said that they wanted to "rule out the easy ones". She was then put on Clindamycin (antibiotics) for inflamed areas of her skin and Mometamax for the yeast infection in her ear. They started her on canned Rabbit & potato as well since she's so young (6mo at the time) and I've only ever fed her Honest Kitchen Embark, Blue Buffalo Chicken/Rice for Puppy, and cooked ground turkey.

After a month without improvements, she was prescribed Clemastine (anti-histamine). I know the plan was to start her on a dietary trial/elimination diet once her itchiness reduced but it's been 2 months now of anti-histamine and I can't really say there's a noticeable improvement...although I guess she hasn't lost any more hair so that's good.

Here's a quick outline of what she's currently on:
* Canned Rabbit & Potato by Royal Canin (sometimes mixed in with plain boiled rabbit)
* Carrots, Celery, Blueberries
* 1 tablet/1.34mg Clemastine (anti-histamine) per day - she is 6lbs
* Mometamax every 10 days (to control/prevent yeast infection in her ears)
* Bath every 1-3 weeks with some combination of HyLyt shampoo, Virbac Epi-Soothe cream rinse (prescribed by general vet), EQyss Micro-Tek shampoo, and EQyss Mega-Tek Rebuilder (for her balding back legs).
* Revolution every 2 weeks (just in case it's fleas)
* She does not have any redness or infections in her skin, but around 3 weeks after a bath, small dandruff-looking flakes appear near her scalp.

At this point, I agree with you that it doesn't seem like her allergy is food-related, which is a relief actually. But if it isn't food, then is my only option to pay for the blood test? Are there any other way to figure out environmental sensitivities?

Thanks again for any advice you can give me (and sorry for this novel I'm writing). I was pretty optimistic when I found a recommended dermatologist for her but after 3 months without results and almost $1000, I'm hesitant to just keep scheduling follow-up appointments without finding out more info on my own and being prepared to make some suggestions.

all of the foods you listed have poultry and usually if the dog is allergic to one poultry they are to all

sounds like your dog had a staph infection as my dog has staph now and we are using clindamycin as well for a second round

how old is your dog and has her thyroid been tested as dogs with skin issues need to have a full thyroid panel and loss of hair is a sign of hypothyroidism and my dog with allergies is also hypothyroid as well so it is very common and that is one of the first thing they need to check along with food elimination diet. It is a full 6 panel thyroid test

allergies start from age 6 mos to 3 years of age so how old is your dog?

ear infections are a clear sign there is food allergy going on and I would not give sugary foods like carrots, blueberries, etc as sugar keeps yeast and bacteria alive so the fact that the dog has ear issues that is a clear sign of food allergy along with environmental

yikes revolution every 2 weeks i was told at most every 3 weeks and it is also used to rule out scabies mite as well - do you see fleas on her? are you in a flea area?

she should be bathed weekly with allergies to keep pollen etc off and if she has staph occuring chlorhexedine duoxo is a great shampoo and not as drying as benzoyl but benzoyl is good to as others on here have had success with it

the scalp drying again leads me to be food related as dd has no issues on head and head is usually demodex or food allergy related and they scraped for demodex already so probably not that

I disagree i think it is food related is well as the ears are your source of food allergy - my dog has never had ear issues in 6 years not one infection and on food elimination diet of pinto beans and white potato she still itched so hers is mostly environmental but she is still on limited ingredient diet

my guess is your dog has both and in 12 weeks you should see improvement on food diet but you have to ditch the carrots, blueberries too sugary

[dwerten]

my dog has lost her hair on back and neck but my friends allergy dog has no hair on her legs they call her chicken legs for that reason --dd has alot of hair on legs but every dog is different so could be grass related so when you bring her in from outside wash her legs or have a pan and put water in it place her in it and use a towel and dry her paws off real well

allergies are very frustrating so hang in there, take lots of notes and make one change at a time

[dwerten]

are you cooking the rabbit and potato? If not best to cook a food elimination diet as no other factors in food. If potato is it white or sweet as white is sugary and i believe people who have diabetes can have sweet potato but not white as sugar content is much more in white potato and again sugar is bad for dogs with yeast in ears issue and there are debates on this whether sugar in food contributes to yeast and bacteria issues in dogs but it makes alot of sense since yeast and bacteria live in sugar so when you get probiotics which i use for my allergy dog there is fos in it and fos is the sugar that keeps the acidopholus and biffidus active.

[amaryl1ia]

Sorry for the delay in my reply as this much information took a bit of time to digest!

Originally Posted by dwerten

i just went to derm yesterday and she said most accurate are VARL, HECKA AND GREER - i had full spectrum ad biomedical and she said neither are any good.

I did a quick search for Varl, Hecka and Greer and didn't come up with anything. Do you know if they have a website or something so I can pass the info on to my dermatologist? Ruby has an appointment this week so I will ask if she has heard of this one, but it would be easier if I could find the information beforehand and have it printed out.

Originally Posted by dwerten

blood cannot determine food allergies only environmental and derm reiterated that yesterday and the only reason you do the allergy blood panel is if you are going to do hyposensitization shots which works in 85% of dogs otherwise a waste of money

85% success rate sounds extremely good! Adding this to the list of items to ask about.

Originally Posted by dwerten

not surprised antihistamines are not working as they did not work in my dog and we did three different ones but people are having success with zyrtec

Is there a canine version of Zyrtec or is it the same that people take?

Originally Posted by dwerten

allergies start from age 6 mos to 3 years of age so how old is your dog?

Ruby is 10 months old now but she started scratching pretty much at exactly 6 months of age.

Originally Posted by dwerten

ear infections are a clear sign there is food allergy going on and I would not give sugary foods like carrots, blueberries, etc as sugar keeps yeast and bacteria alive so the fact that the dog has ear issues that is a clear sign of food allergy along with environmental

Her ears developed a yeast infection right around 5 months of age and her general vet had thought it was because she got water in her ears. Once that went away 2 months ago it hasn't come back and the Mometamax now (every 10 days) is just more of a preventative measure. I will make sure to cut out carrots and blueberries as well though.

Originally Posted by dwerten

yikes revolution every 2 weeks i was told at most every 3 weeks and it is also used to rule out scabies mite as well - do you see fleas on her? are you in a flea area?

I have never seen fleas on her and she has been primarily an indoor dog since her itching started so it is another one of those preventative measures suggested by her dermatologist. However, I don't see any harm is switching it to once every 3 weeks if there are some sort of side effects from using it too often.

Originally Posted by dwerten

she should be bathed weekly with allergies to keep pollen etc off and if she has staph occuring chlorhexedine duoxo is a great shampoo and not as drying as benzoyl but benzoyl is good to as others on here have had success with it

Thank you for this info as I've always been confused about how often to bathe her! She has no visible infections or pinkness so I will stick to her HyLyt shampoo and Virbac Epi-Soothe cream rinse once a week from now on.

Originally Posted by dwerten

the scalp drying again leads me to be food related as dd has no issues on head and head is usually demodex or food allergy related

Interesting...adding demodex to GROWING list of items to ask dermatologist

Originally Posted by dwerten

my dog has lost her hair on back and neck but my friends allergy dog has no hair on her legs they call her chicken legs for that reason --dd has alot of hair on legs but every dog is different so could be grass relate

Haha yep, my boyfriend calls Ruby 'hairy drumstricks' as well. I had thought at the beginning that it might be grass-related so she has been pretty much an indoor-only dog for the last 3 months. She does her business on a fake patch of plastic grass on my deck so she really has almost zero contact with grass. It's also been too rainy and cold out so it hasn't been hard to stay away from the dog parks.

Originally Posted by dwerten

are you cooking the rabbit and potato? If not best to cook a food elimination diet as no other factors in food. If potato is it white or sweet as white is sugary and i believe people who have diabetes can have sweet potato but not white as sugar content is much more in white potato and again sugar is bad for dogs with yeast in ears issue

The prescribed canned rabbit/potato diet she is on is from Royal Canin and contains quite a few ingredients: Water sufficient for processing, rabbit, rabbit by-products, fresh potatoes, dried potatoes, vegetable oil, potato protein, fish oil, calcium sulfate, dicalcium phosphate, sodium tripolyphosphate, natural flavors, potassium chloride, taurine, Vitamins [L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), niacin supplement, biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, carrageenan, Trace Minerals [zinc oxide, iron sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.).

I will sometimes put a whole rabbit in the slow cooker with only water and then shred it along with any organs to mix into her canned food. I have also made baked sweet potato for her before...the only reason why I don't cook 100% of her food is because I feel like I'm not giving her a complete diet with all the vitamins and supplements she needs, especially since she is still so young. What do you think?

Lastly, I bought dust mite covers for my mattress and bedding before Christmas (since she sleeps in bed with me) and have someone scheduled to come out and clean the air ducts in my house tomorrow ($1100!) just to make sure she's not breathing in the common indoor allergens. I'm really crossing my fingers that the air duct cleaning will make a visible difference...

I know this is a long process but it's hard to watch her scratch so much. Thank goodness for this forum and all the support!

[dwerten]

here is varl

Home

GREER

Greer: In touch. Within reach.

could not find hecka but if i do it i will be doing VARL

my dd is in doors as well on wee wee pads - sad

zyrtec is for humans as many human meds are used in dogs but consult dermatologist on that

12 weeks will not be harmful to minimize ingredients and home cook - you can give a baby multivitamin from whole foods as derm had us do that but i opted not to as i wanted to be very limited and see if food

yep dd was 6 mos right after all her shots spun out of control

the ear thing yeah i would not use drugs as preventative as she can become immune to antibiotics and meds so i would only use if necessary so discuss with vet

make sure no oatmeal in those shampoos as i believe epi soothe has oatmeal and oatmeal can make them itchy as i use hypoallergenic and oatmeal can be drying - i like dr bronners mild unscented baby shampoo it has all organic ingredients and nothing allergy related

if she is only indoors i really would not do flea meds if you ruled out flea issue and sarcoptic mange with revolution as that is one more chemical agitating her system

we use costco perfume and dye free soap to wash everything in, clean with vinegar and water, have oreck purifiers in two rooms she is in and hypoallergenic filters in both ac units