Too small to spay? :confused:
 

Have any of you who own smaller Yorkies ever been told they were too small to spay? Jillie, who is 3.5 pounds, was scheduled to be spayed today at 6 months, and the vet told me to come back in a month. I was surprised.

His reasoning is she's been gaining steadily since I've had her, and he called a .2 gain in the last month significant. He wants to give it a month and see if she gets closer to 4. If she's not, he'll still go ahead and do the surgery.

I guess I'd rather be cautious, but it's going to be much more inconvenient. I'm on vacation this week, and could have watched her 24-7 during her recovery. Plus, I expect she's going to come into her first heat in the next month, and I'm really not looking forward to that with two males in the house, neutered or not.

I had Marcel neutered at 10 mths old, partly bc I wanted him to weigh as much as possible, partly bc he was still healing from giardia. He was just about 3lbs when neutered, and he did *great*.

Spaying is a more involved surgery, but there are plenty of members here who've had their girls spayed and only weighed 3lbs or less. Maybe your vet is overly cautious (not a bad thing :))....but I think it's sort of your call too, if you feel this is the right time for her to be spayed. Is your vet used to spaying smaller dogs?

I'm sure she'll do just great, Mike. :)

We spayed our Nadia at almost a year and 3 lbs. She had never went through a heat cycle and did great :) I am sure since your girl is still young and small they would rather wait a little.

Thanks for the feedback, you guys. Yeah, I've decided to wait. I do need to check on the vet's experience with small dogs. It's a large office, and I seldom get the same vet twice. I don't know any of them well enough to know which I prefer.

I guess I'm just surprised more than anything. Another vet at the office earlier told me 3 pounds was fine for spaying, and even offered to do the surgery a month ago. But who's to argue with caution?

Mike my vet made me wait until Bella was 3#'s but she also did a lot of juvenille spays ... maybe your vet is not comfortable with the small size. Do you know what the vets methods are? What gas she/he uses? Heated table..what shot does she give to bring them out once done?

I wouldn't worry to much about the vacation thing as they really do bounce back the next day...The day of the surgery they sleep almost all day..and then the next day they eat and play a little and then go back to sleep. You will just have to keep the rest of the gang away from her.

Mike- my Macy is under 3lbs at 10months old & my vet said he would like to wait for her to be at least over 3lbs before spaying her too! I have it scheduled for 12/4, but we will have to see what she is up to. She has not gone into heat yet, maybe because of her size.

My girl was 6 pounds when she was spayed, so not help there; but many Yorkies are spayed at 3 or so pounds. I would want the vet to be comfortable, but at the same time it is really best that she does not come into heat at all. I'd also really like the week vacation thing. I wouldn't leave Ellie until her staples came out.:rolleyes:

Why can't things ever be easy???

Mike Lulu and Zoey were both spayed at just the 3lb mark. No problems whatsoever. Maybe it's just fear on your vets part.

I had Lainee spayed at a year and she weighed 2.5. She did great...

My Heidi is the smallest girl I've had spayed. I waited until she was a year old and she was just at 3 pounds then. She came through fine.

I would think that you could have her done on any given Friday and she would be fine by Monday (assuming you work a Mon. - Fri. job). I personally wanted to wait with Heidi for her to put on as much weight as possible and also to give her time to expel her baby teeth.

I think your Jillie will be fine to wait a bit. While she may go into her first heat, it's not unusual for some girls to go up to a year before their first one.

Whatever you decide, just make sure your vet is using a safe anesthesia.

yes, I had a friend who sold a male that was very small- he was under 3#'s
- he was about 1 yr

he had heart failure during surgery!

IMO- i would want to wait!

Talk to you vet more and ask questions!!!

every surgery has risk- on our pets or on humans!

All Yorkies are at risk of having problems with anesthesia. It's a breed thing. Yorkies that weigh less than 4.5# have an increased risk of having problems with anesthesia during surgery, due to the relative size of their livers. The older and bigger they are, the risk decreases. Also, some will be more likely (than other breeds) to have adverse reactions to the anesthesia. I applaud your vet for wanting to wait to do her spay. It sounds like he really knows what he's doing. I cringe whenever I hear about Yorkies being spayed under 1 year old. The only reason they do it so early now is because so many irresponsible owners (of all breeds) were
failing to bring their female dogs back to the vet when they turned 1 year old and many ended up having litters prior to being spayed. So the trend became doing it earlier to prevent all the unwanted puppies from being born. So, the absolute safest thing to do for Miss Jillie is wait and see if she gets any bigger. Here's a post I did from a previous thread:

Yorkshire terriers are sensitive to Anesthesia (especially those weighing 4.5 pounds or less). Only use gas inhalants isoflurane or sevoflurane. They recover from it faster. You may have to request and/or insist this be done, and the vet may want to charge you more because it's more expensive. They may have an allergic reaction to anesthesia. Discuss this with your vet, so that they can be prepared. There are many breeds of dogs and vets sometimes forget which ones have which problems.

Spaying a female dog is a major abdominal surgery as opposed to a neuter, where the incision goes only skin deep. Gas inhalants iso or sevo only. Spaying and neutering dogs will prevent cancers later in life, ie prostrate, mammary tumors, and pyometra (infection of the uterus). It helps with behavioral issues also. Do some research.

Spaying and neutering used to be done when the pet was a year old. They changed this because many dogs were becoming pregnant in their first heat, and owners would forget to schedule the surgery. So to avoid many unwanted puppies, they started to do these surgeries earlier. It is okay and safer to wait until your pup is older.

Have pre-op bloodwork done. Check the liver enzymes. If they are high, cancel the surgery. The liver is what removes the anesthsia from the dog. If these enzymes are high, this could indicate a liver problem, and make recovery difficult or impossible. This problem will need to be resolved before surgery or dental treatments.

Do not combine surgeries. You don't want to keep a dog under anesthesia for too long of a time. Multiple short surgeries are safer than one long one. To pull a couple loose teeth is one thing, but don't approve a 30 minute dental cleaning added onto spay surgery time. It is too long to keep a Yorkie under anesthesia for.

Please do not assume your vet knows everything. Nothing against vets, but sometimes they get busy. If your chart has a big sticker on it the says 'anesthesia sensitivity' or allergies, it will get noticed, and special procedures for Yorkies will be followed.


And a story: When my first Yorkie had a minor surgery to remove a small lump on her head, she almost died. They gave a knock down drug to intubate her, but as they were trying to get her to go deep enough, she was fighting the anesthesia, (natural reaction of the body in wild (er) animals), and they ended up increasing it too much and boom: emergency situation, she finally went under, but went too far and heartrate went way down, but they were quick to reverse it and were able to bring her HR up and stablized, enough to do the surgery. Scary! I was training as a vet tech at the time, and was in the room and watching as all this was happening.

Also: find out if they will be keeping her overnight, and if yes, will someone be there with her? If they do it early in the day, they may let you take her home at night. If so, stay up, and if she is groggy, don't let her sleep continually until she is no longer woozie. They can go to sleep and with anesthesia still in their system some go to Rainbow Bridge for a visit and forget to come back. Wake her every 30 minutes or so until she acts normal. Offer small amounts of water at a time, and chicken baby food would be good to have on hand for a day or so after the surgery. Keep her warm, and keep checking that she's comfy, not to hot or too cold. As the anesthesia wears off she'll be better able to maintain her own temperature.

Great post kjc!
 

I'm very fortunate to have a great vet hospital just down the street from me & all mine got spayed & neutered there. They do keep them there overnight. One of Mimi's pups is right at 3 lbs & she got neutered at 9 months of age & also had her dentals (baby teeth extractions) done. I also have them microchipped...those needles are HUGE!

Maybe it's a good thing to wait awhile for Jillie's surgery, that way, you can also have her dentals done at the same time. Most Yorkie's (in my experience anyways) have their 1st heat cycle after they turn one, esp the little ones.

Mom to Hot Rod has those fantastic softee collars. Just in case she picks at her surgery site. That is another important issue. Our vet hardly leaves any scar & mine didn't touch their incision site at all!

*kjc...I would've fainted or freaked out if I saw my baby on the operating table & she almost died!!

Yes! My Baby Zoey was 10 mos. The vet wanted to wait until she was 3 lbs. When the time came, I was so worried and nervous and thank God everything went well and she did great.

Wow, lots of good advice! Thanks.

You got lots of great advice here! I would hope your vet is comfortable with the small ones, if not, it might be worth changing or at least asking which one of your vets does the small animals the most.

One more bit advice here; every animal reacts differently, some females bounce back right away, some not so fast.. it is like a hysterectomy in a woman.
Also, whatever pain meds they send her home with, make sure you know all the possible side effects. so if she has a reaction, you will recognize it.

Ha, one more more bit of advise, lol.. Get a baby onesie, newborn or preemie, not only will she look cute in it, :D, but you can put a sanitary pad in it over the suture site and she won't be able to bother it

Hi Mike, Morgan was spayed at 6 months old and weighed just under 3lbs. she did great and was back to her normal self that same night. the vet i was using at the time loved doing smaller dogs because they are actually quicker. you don't have to go searching for anything because its all right there (not a very deep abdomen). if your vet isn't comfortable tho its a different story. you say you have a multi vet hosp, so couldn't you pick which one you'd want to book with? like, can you choose the vet who wanted to do her last month if it seems like he's more comfortable with the smaller dogs?

Thanks, everybody. MaryKay, do they make onesies in green camo? :p

Kellie, that's what I'm trying to look into now. Just wondering how you know who's the best at what. I suppose I should start asking them all more questions about their background and specialties. You'd think I should be able to see their resumes. Hmmm.

I think you need to ask the procedure they use...what kind of gas, on a heating pad? what do they give them to bring them out of being put under? (I can't remember the shot my vet would give) how do they close the wound (super glue or sutures)? Is there an assistant with the surgeon the entire time monitoring the surgery. Are they going to make her spend the night? If so is anyone at the vets (if the answer is no then I would demand she come home) what time do they schedule the surgery as she will not be able to eat from the night before? Pain meds, what about her teeth being pulled?

its difficult in a multivet hospital if you don't get a choice of who you see for regular stuff. if you always see a different vet each time its tough to get comfortable with one or two of them. i usually find a vet i like and stick with the one.

even tho they are all different vets, the hospital might require them to use the same procedure for surgery. Some prefer different pre-meds to sedate before inducing anesthesia tho. usually all the vets in an office have to use the same induction drug (propofol) and gas anesthesia (Iso or Sevo), plus they should intubate the patient for surgery. they should also place an IV cath and have the patient on IV fluids throughout the surgery and recovery. heating pads are usually placed on the table with a towel over them to keep the patient warm during surgery. A tech is usually monitoring anesthesia but sometimes not, so i'd ask about that. Um lets see... some vets prefer different methods for incision closure (dissolvable sutures vs non, staples, glue... i prefer either type of suture). ask if they have to spend the night and if anyone is there 24/7 to monitor patients overnight if they require it. oh and if you want, ask for the pre-op bloodwork. ask for pain meds for the next day at least. most done need it after that but some people like to have it just in case. antibiotics are a toss up. technically they are not needed to go home with because they get a long lasting antibiotic injection during the surgery (at least most places do this). last thing i can think of is teeth. ask for her baby teeth to be pulled so you don't have to worry about them later.

remember no food or water after 10pm the night before. it doesn't matter what time the surgery is the next day really because most vets require the patients to be dropped off in the morning. different vets do surgery at certain times in a multi-vet hosp so all patients are needed to be there. also pre-op blood or tests are done in teh morning before surgery.

that's all i have right now.


oh, and i'm not sure what Cindy's vet used to bring them out of anesthesia. Where i've worked nothing is given. they are taken off of the gas anesthesia and usually wake up a few minutes later. sometimes if they are totally out, an reversal drug can be used depending on what was given as a pre-med.

Good I think you covered a lot...do you know anything about laser surgery for this? I don't but it might be an option.

I wish I could remember what they gave my dogs but they would lift them off the table and give them to me and then give the shot and the dog would almost always pee on me..haha..but it has been awhile but they would come out right away. I would hold them for awhile and then wait for a couple of hours at the vets and I always brought them home. I put them in a room away from the confusion..made sure they did have a draft on them and kept everyone else away.

a couple of the vets i've worked with have used it here and there but they all preferred the old fashion blade method. i like the scalpel method too. i didn't see any difference between the methods in recovery or comfort to the dog really. only difference i saw was the price (laser being more expensive)

there was one drug we would use at the surgeons that had an anticedant but none of the regular vets i worked with used it. i haven't worked with a regular DVM in years so maybe they are using it now too. i really don't know. usually by the time the surgery is over the pre-med and induction agent are out or almost out of their system and just the gas is left. the gas usually leave the system in 20 minutes i believe with Sevo being faster the Iso.

Thanks, everybody, great advice. Someone on my blog suggested I visit the vet's Web site and see if there was any information on the doctors, and voila! There were mini bios on all of them. The guy who was going to do the procedure is actually the least experienced. He graduated in 2008 and just arrived here in July, so I'm guessing it's his first job. :eek:

Now the question: Is he cautious because he's received the latest in medical training, or is he cautious from inexperience?

ummmmmm..... i'd have to vote NO on him doing the surgery LOL i like a vet with a little more experience doing surgery on my tiny dog. he may be awesome, you never know, but i'd feel more comfortable with a more seasoned vet doing the surgery just in case something were to go wrong. a more experienced vet will know what to do right away

:D :D :D
Baby Camo / Baby Camouflage - Baby Camo Onesie

I agree...I want someone who understands small breeds and can work fast..

Yeah, I agree with the vet appraisals. I want someone I'm confident in, and he hasn't been around long enough for that. So actually, maybe the rejection turned out for the best.

Can I share a story, lol, like you need any more advise :)
When I first got adopted by AprilLove, I decided to change to a new vet for her because my older two went to a vet in a city farther away, due to me moving I wanted a closer place \. But I always stuck with them and still do because they are good and still take my older girl there because she is comfy with them. Well I wanted someone close by in case of emergency. so there is a multivet practice about 3 minutes from me, and I looked at all their bios' online before I choose the first guy, he had LOTS of experience, older fellow and I thought great this is best. Well, I took AprilLove there for her first rabies shot, and he pulled out a 28 gauge needle (BIG!!!) and I asked why not the 31 guage (I know these things because my older boy was diabetic and had to give his insulin shots) and he said oh that is the smallest they use, yada yada, and she proceeded to SCREAM when he gave her the shot and I about broke down in tears, had to fight them back, I grabbed her and wanted to rip his head off, lol. ]
He had no empathy at all! and said she was being a drama queen, gosh I really hurt for her when this happened and wanted to take her pain away, she was less than 2 lbs at the time :(

Any ways, I choose a woman after that who has been doing it half the time he has, but she has Shi-Tzus and so I figured she knew small dogs, and low and behold, next vet visit for vaccines, they used a 31 gauge needle and said that was standard practice and she and Nappy and Rozi have never had any pain with shots :)
What is the moral of my story here> lol, I guess it is do your research, and go with your gut on how you feel about them. Experience in years of practice does NOT mean they are always the best choice

Hmm... Ginger got spayed last week at 15 weeks and 2.6lb so I don't see why your vet wouldn't spay her...???

The dr actually said that many rescues/shelters are now spaying/neutering dogs as young as 6-8 weeks now!

Our vet said the same thing...& I was concerned about the early spaying = urinary incontinence & she reassured me that is not the cause now.

I think imo that asking the doc straight up is the best way to go. They'll be honest & tell you if they've had many experiences w/small breeds or if they feel uncomfortable.