Results of Bella's CBC and Bile Acid test

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yes i agree 100% - get cod and add to that diet as fish is a highly digestible protein. I am considering the preference for my malt and have really looked into it alot. This is my favorite of honest kitchen recipes. I really am leaning towards gall bladder contraction with her or very mild mvd like mine

I will get some cod (yum) and give to her with her HK and "cut out" the NV medallions. I do love the medallions but we have to pick out the bones for her anyway (she spits them out). Bella likes the HK and try mixing cod along, geen bean and Preference. I am fortunate that I can buy HK where I live. Thank you for the ideas and support!

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by Zanders' mom

Hmmm, just a suggestion, something to think over.... I would put her on a lower protein diet, this could just be due to the amounts of medallions and Honest Kitchen she is eating at this time. Then I would her retested in a few months before doing the biopsy. If the values are elevated then yes go with the biopsy. Just food for thought.

Thank you, I'm going to start the lower protein diet tomorrow and cut out the medallions and buy some cod to fix and mix with HK. I am going to her retested in a few months. Thank you and any suggestions are so much appreciated.

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by blueskies

I would think this is gallbladder instead of liver. One of mine tested like this by a medical school, very accurate. They suspected gallbladder, retested later, results were normal. I would not be too concerned at this point. Was your vet concerned? Bile acids would be completely off the chart if there was a shunt, VERY high.

Also just noticed her liver profile is NORMAL. If she had a shunt or even MVD her protein, BUN, etc would be off as well.

The vet didn't seem to concerned but did mention they would spay her as a liver compromised dog (not sure what the difference is). I'm sighing a huge sigh relief after reading all the posts. Thank you and I'm so thankful to all of you.

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by dwerten

as if they do propofol, isoflurine, iv fluids and catheterization - also if the teeth need to come out get them out now as that way you will not have to put under again

I'm going to write down the propofol, isoflurine, iv fluids and catheterization and find out what the vet has in mind. Thank you for all the ideas, they have been helpful. I was a wreck earlier and really feel allot more at ease with everyones knowledge.

[Ellie May]

IMO, it is too early for a liver biopsy.
That procedure is not without risks and her post is a bit low for me to consider it.

Yes, shunts usually cause a much higher post but it is still a very slight possibility and the bile acids could go up (or down) next time. Ellie had three bile acids tests. Her post results 1) 47, 2) 15 and 3) 106 and her liver enzymes were only (slightly) elevated once. Bile acids are a funny thing...

IMO, if you want to do the spay now, it would probably be just fine. By the way, not all vets use propofol even for liver compromised dogs.

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

IMO, it is too early for a liver biopsy.
That procedure is not without risks and her post is a bit low for me to consider it.

Yes, shunts usually cause a much higher post but it is still a very slight possibility and the bile acids could go up (or down) next time. Ellie had three bile acids tests. Her post results 1) 47, 2) 15 and 3) 106 and her liver enzymes were only (slightly) elevated once. Bile acids are a funny thing...

IMO, if you want to do the spay now, it would probably be just fine. By the way, not all vets use propofol even for liver compromised dogs.

Thank you Ellie May. I'll hold off from asking for a biopsy. How long did you wait in between getting Ellie's bile acid tests?

I'm going to go ahead and have her spayed. Her teeth are a mess with needing 8 baby teeth removed. I already had held off on the spay hoping she'd lose a few more teeth, but since that isn't happening and none seem lose.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by BellaRose08

Thank you Ellie May. I'll hold off from asking for a biopsy. How long did you wait in between getting Ellie's bile acid tests?

I'm going to go ahead and have her spayed. Her teeth are a mess with needing 8 baby teeth removed. I already had held off on the spay hoping she'd lose a few more teeth, but since that isn't happening and none seem lose.

1) Septemberish, 2) October and 3) January

She did have a liver biopsy because she was being spayed and her vet thought while she was in there, why not do it. Her bile acids were low at the time. It really depends on your vet, if you trust them and if you just want a diagnosis quickly.

By the way, in Ellie's case it didn't show much of anything and neither did an ultrasound, so she still has no diagnosis...

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by BellaRose08

Thank you Ellie May. I'll hold off from asking for a biopsy. How long did you wait in between getting Ellie's bile acid tests?

I'm going to go ahead and have her spayed. Her teeth are a mess with needing 8 baby teeth removed. I already had held off on the spay hoping she'd lose a few more teeth, but since that isn't happening and none seem lose.

yeah get the spay done as 8 mos you are getting close to first heat as did my dd at 8 mos and almost waited too long she only lost one tooth but my boy yorkie who was neutered at 6 most lost 10 teeth but you want them out of there as this breed has horrible teeth issues so you do not want tartar build up at that young of an age to start problems with gum disease.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Zanders' mom

Hmmm, just a suggestion, something to think over.... I would put her on a lower protein diet, this could just be due to the amounts of medallions and Honest Kitchen she is eating at this time. Then I would her retested in a few months before doing the biopsy. If the values are elevated then yes go with the biopsy. Just food for thought.

the thing with doing that is you have to put the dog under again and they are already in there doing the spay and she is such a small dog putting her under again so soon i would not recommend. and they have to open her up again Honestly if it were my dog I would not do the biopsy with those low of numbers as it is most likely just mild mvd and the lower protein diet will drop the numbers.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by BellaRose08

The vet didn't seem to concerned but did mention they would spay her as a liver compromised dog (not sure what the difference is). I'm sighing a huge sigh relief after reading all the posts. Thank you and I'm so thankful to all of you.

it just means they will use propofol instead of ket-val which i prefer propofol instead anyway as ket-val can trigger seizures in dogs prone to seizures and liver compromised dogs are prone to seizures. this is why pre- blood work is so important as propofol is more expensive than ket-val and some vets still use ket-val. They call it special K so make sure your vets use propofol or i would switch vets as small dogs should not get ket-val in my opinion

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

IMO, it is too early for a liver biopsy.
That procedure is not without risks and her post is a bit low for me to consider it.

Yes, shunts usually cause a much higher post but it is still a very slight possibility and the bile acids could go up (or down) next time. Ellie had three bile acids tests. Her post results 1) 47, 2) 15 and 3) 106 and her liver enzymes were only (slightly) elevated once. Bile acids are a funny thing...

IMO, if you want to do the spay now, it would probably be just fine. By the way, not all vets use propofol even for liver compromised dogs.

i agree i would not do liver biopsy with those low of numbers and normal alt -- i do not believe in doing testing further unless a dog is having issues and/or real high numbers. The gall bladder can contract and throw off test as well so i agree just do spay and get the teeth out of there as i believe dogs who are not being bred should be spay before first heat as i have seen dogs die at age 2 of pyometra as it comes on so fast and within 48 hrs the dog is dead

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by dwerten

it just means they will use propofol instead of ket-val which i prefer propofol instead anyway as ket-val can trigger seizures in dogs prone to seizures and liver compromised dogs are prone to seizures. this is why pre- blood work is so important as propofol is more expensive than ket-val and some vets still use ket-val. They call it special K so make sure your vets use propofol or i would switch vets as small dogs should not get ket-val in my opinion

I'm going to have to find out for sure since the vet did say they would treat her as liver compromised. Am willing to pay more to know my baby will be ok. I'm going to have to call the Vet's office and find out, Thank you!

[BellaRose08]

Originally Posted by dwerten

i agree i would not do liver biopsy with those low of numbers and normal alt -- i do not believe in doing testing further unless a dog is having issues and/or real high numbers. The gall bladder can contract and throw off test as well so i agree just do spay and get the teeth out of there as i believe dogs who are not being bred should be spay before first heat as i have seen dogs die at age 2 of pyometra as it comes on so fast and within 48 hrs the dog is dead

I'm sure hoping she doesn't come into heat before then, that has also been on my mind. The Vet only does spay's and neuter twice a month and guess that is what she (the vet) does the entire day. Her teeth have to be removed and am surprised there is one lose one left, so don't think there going to come out on their own.

[Patti]

Cali has so many health issues as a puppy, hypoglycemia, stomach problems, not eating so with her Bile Acids we decided to do the liver biopsy after the ultrasound showed no visable shunt. Since she was so sick as a puppy she was under the care of a specialist and then we thought she had an intestinal blockage while she was in heat so she had to be spayed during heat and they did a liver and intestinal biopsies at the same time by a board certified surgeon. After the biopsies came back the internest and surgeon felt that her case was so mild that all her illnesses were not due to her MVD, she was just a sick puppy. Cali's vet does take into consideration any meds she puts her on and prefers to avoid future surgery's unless absolutely necessary because of her MVD. She does yearly blood work and all of her liver values have been great. I had Cali's Bile Acid's done about 2 weeks apart because the first one was done right after a hypoglycemic episode and I wanted her retested before doing the liver biopsy. Maybe you could retest soon and if it is normal you won't have to go any further. Hope that is the case.

[BellaRose08]

Oh Patti, It sounds like you went through allot with little Cali. She sure is a cutie and looks like a real sweetheart. They sure can make us worry. I want to have Bella tested again in the near future, I want to know so I can do everything humanly possible for her. Thanks so much and I so appreciate you all. Hugs, Lori