Too much protein???
 

Before I got Wookie:aimeeyork, I did tons of research on yorkies. Bought a lot of books and stuff. Well, this weekend I picked up one of those books (Yorkies for Dummies LOL!) and was just looking through the diet section of it. I started doing the rotation diet between raw and kibble a week and a half ago and I just wanted to see what it said about raw diet.

It didn't say anything about raw diet, but when I started looking in the nutritional area about kibble I got scared. (Just when I think I am doing good and have this diet thing under control!) It was talking about the area on the bag where it lists the max and min content of different things in the kibble. It said the max that an adult yorkie should have in the protein area is 27-29%. Anything hire can damage the kidneys. I am using Innova EVO, and it is 42%!!!!! (The raw medallions are only like 17%. On the rotation diet I am doing 75% kibble and 25% raw for his daily intake. That is for purposes of being able to afford it and based on his eating habits, activity level and weight) I am freakin out now!!! I have been told by sooooo many people that is a great kibble for him. People in here (YT) have told me that, several vets (including my hollistic vet) and many pet care professionals whose opinions I trust.

Am I just over reacting, or is this really something I need to worry about??:animal-pa

You are going to hear pros and cons about this protein thing. I also feed my dog EVO as well. He is doing really well on it.
What is their not to worry about today? :D

Innova was too rich for mine...

TJ is only 100% raw :thumbup:

While I would probably opt to feed a food moderate in protein (about 24-30%), I also don't know of any research that suggests a higher protein diet will damage the kidneys. If the dog has certain preexisting diseases (liver, kidney, pancreas), lower protein foods may have to be given. It is really personally choice and going by the research that you have found and agree with.

Nature's Variety Raw Medallions are 68% moisture, so they need to be converted to a dry matter basis (the same goes for canned food). So with the water or moisture removed, the Organic Chicken Medallions would be about 41% protein.

I had my dogs on a 32 percent protien diet and all of them had different issues. As soon as I switched to a lower protien food all thier issues disappeared. Like some one already said, everyone has thier own opioion on how a high the protien should be.

protein issue
 

What much of the research that I have read suggests is that too much protein for a dog who has kidney problems is bad and will increase the problems. HOWEVER, if your dog is doing well on EVO or a high protein diet and does not already have kidney problems, there is not much out there that suggests that it causes the problem. Each dog is different, just like each person is different. Some dogs THRIVE on EVO. My little girl had to switch to Innova bc her body did not handle that amount of protein too well, plus she only likes the 100% pure beef and chicken treats and that just added to the problem. Innova and the treats is a perfect mix for her, but you will have to be the judge on what is best for your baby.

Oh my gosh...thank you guys so much! And for responding so fast! It makes me feel much better!!!:)

I just switched Bella from NB to Orijen and fortunately the boutique I am now purchasing her dog food from the owner is absolutely anal retentive about dog food research as his clients are (he has dogs too). So while I was talking to him, I posed the question about the higher protein amounts and he mentioned that a University in (I think) South GA or somewhere did a 5 yr study to see if higher protein levels did cause kidney issues in dogs. Anyway he went on to say that the research learned from that study is being passed along to the veterinary schools. I wish I could remember everything he said but I was there for over an hour talking about dog food :D so I'm afraid I'm slightly off on some of the details about location and stuff.

I hope that helps. Regardless, the biggest thing is if your dog doesn't have a problem with the food then I would stick it.

concerned about proten in raw NV
 

I am unfamiliar with the terms "converted to a dry matter basis", so could you tell me a little more about this ,and is NV Raw good or is it too much protein, since the bag does not indicate that much protein?

converting to dry matter basis just means that there is a lot of moisture in the food that needs to be calculated out of it. It is sort of like feeding kibble and then pouring a lot of water over top. When talking abot the protein and fat content of the food, you would pay any attention to the amount of water added. Well, in commercial food, they tell you how much moisture it contains, so if that water was removed, the protein and fat content are much different. Dry matter basis are the numbers that should be used when talking about any kind of wet food. To figure it out, you divide the protein by the reciprical of the moisture. So if a food contains 80%, the reciprical is 20 (100-80). If the protein is stated to be 10%, divide 10 by 20 and there is your protein content. Does that make sense?

About the NV, that is personal choice. It is normal for companies to list protein and fat content how NV does, so that isn't a problem but it does need to be converted.

Feeding a fussy Yorkie
 

I am going crazy! My 8 month old Amber often won't eat her fried chicken/turkey/beef patties but loves green peppers and carrots. Wet tinned dogfood is sneered at by her. My darling wife won't believe me that Amber WILL eat even if the food has gone dry 4 hours later and throws it away and cooks more food!!! What on earth do I do? My wife is too old to train properly!:confused:

Are you leaving wet food out for four hours?
How much homecooked are you giving?

People used to think high protein caused kidney disease in dogs, but that's been disproven as far as I've been taught....although some still carry on the myth. Dogs are carnivores and were designed to eat a high-protein, meat-based diet. One of my yorkies has been eating Nature's Variety raw for over two and a half years, and my other one has been eating it for almost a year now. They just had bloodwork Saturday and it came back perfect.

There are people who believe high protein is damaging to small dogs and others who believe it is the best way and the way nature intended dogs to eat. I'm not sure where exactly I fall on that scale :D somewhere in between I guess. I think if you want to feed a high protein diet it should come from a varied diet, not only high protein kibble . I would do a rotation of kibble /canned or raw. but again... that's just my preference , nothing scientific about it ;)

Yes, we're leaving the food out for at least 4 hours and then my wife states that it's dry and cooks a new patty!! I've always believed that if a dog is really hungry it WILL eat!

Homecooked or canned food should be treated just as if a human were going to eat it. That is, it shouldn't sit out that long because then you will have a bacteria issue.

If you are feeding more than 10% homecooked, supplements and the calcium/phosphorus ratio has to be balanced or it could be very damaging to her (if fed long-term).

Homecooked is just fine to give but it has to be the right kinds of food and cooked in a certain way. Fried beef is most likely very high in fat which can trigger pancreatitis (can be fatal). One small bite can lead to this in some dogs.

So if you want to feed homecooked, I would talk to a nutritionist and get the recipe balanced and then after leaving it down for Amber for no more than 20 or 30 minutes, refrigerate until next time. I don't usually go with the tough love, they will eat when they are hungry approach but if she isn't eating homecooked even, you might have to.

What canned foods have you tried?
Has she always been picky?

Feeding
 

We've tried many canned dog foods and she doesn't like any of them! Dry food is total anathema too!
I have never owned such a fussy beast but my previous animals were all brought up prior to my marriage 9 years back to my present wife who is madly in love with Amber (and me too). Think I will have to try her on toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches for lunch and grits for breakfast, 2 of my favorites!

I totally agree!! Fried foods are horrible for dogs and it seems like your baby is rejecting what you are giving. Yorkies have very sensitive stomachs and if you are making homemade you really need to look into this, it sounds like you are feeding an actual human baby. Dogs needs a balanced diet of fruits and veggies, meats, and rice, etc. you just have to make sure you are feeding them the ones that they are actually allowed to eat. :)

Hello :).

I just have to hop in here and agree w/ what others have said -- feeding fried food, sandwiches, and un-balanced meals is and will be very detrimental to your dog's health. Like Crystal said, if you're feeding more than 10% homecooked food, you MUST re-balance the supplement program.

Like Crystal asked - which dog foods, exactly, have you tried?

If you're not going to balance the supplements, I really would stop all homecooking asap and strictly feed dog food - which is balanced properly. Just my opinion. :)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:total ly agree, you said it better than I could! :p

I joked about the sandwiches and grits and stated that we had tried MANY canned dog foods. Please don't bother to reply as you are being totally unhelpful! :mad:

Since in your previous post, you stated you're feeding fried food to your dog, why would we think you're joking about feeding grilled cheese and grits?

People are giving you GOOD advice here - if you aren't interested in the advice, I don't understand why you asked for it.

If you ask for advice, people *will* reply. I'm not sure why you'd expect otherwise. Good luck. :)

to the OP-
Here's an article about protein. IMO there's not too much protein.

"Can I feed my dog too much protein?
If your dog eats too much protein, some will be excreted in the urine and the rest will be used as calories or converted to fat - causing your dog no harm. However, if your dog has a kidney problem, high protein diets are not recommended. Most pet food companies slightly exceed the minimum recommended protein requirements to ensure that dogs get adequate protein from their food."

"Does high protein cause kidney disease?
No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Today, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but instead contains protein that is more digestible (therefore producing fewer nitrogen by-products). These diet changes are made merely because damaged kidneys may not be able to handle the excess nitrogen efficiently. In pets with existing kidney problems, nitrogen can become too high in the bloodstream which can harm other tissues.

Unless your veterinarian has told you your pet has a kidney problem that is severe enough to adjust the protein intake, you can feed your pet a normal amount of protein without worrying about "damaging" or "stressing" your pet's kidneys. Also, keep in mind the fact that you are not "saving" your pet's kidneys by feeding a low-protein diet. "


posted from: Dog Food FAQs: Protein


HOPE THAT HELPS!!! :D :)

That did help! Thanks so much! And to everyone who posted. I feel much better about it now!!! :D Until the next thing pops up that I need to worry about right??? lol Don't think I will ever have the food thing down completely!!!

PS Sorry, didn't mean to cause a tiff in here either.....:(

like others have said, there are many different opinions on what to feed..
it all depends on your little one and what they do well on, etc. ;)

we currently feed a rotation diet of:
nature's variety raw medallions & nature's variety instinct canned, ziwi peak, the honest kitchen, primal raw.

we also leave kibble out at all times (just incase) although, they don't eat a whole lot of it! ;) the kibble we are currently feeding is Nature's Variety Instinct & Natural Balance L.I.D.(Limited Ingredient Diet) small bites! :)

good luck.. and i hope you get it all worked out soon!! :heart to

I don't know if any long term studies have been done on the effects of high protein foods like Evo. Personally, I'm not comfortable with it.

I think the guy that runs my pet food delivery service said that the NV Instinct was comparable to the Innova EVO. Is it small sized kibble too? Wookie won't even try to eat anything thats not small.

I always feel that too much of anything is not a good thing including protein. I personally will not feed anything that has too high of a protein in it and nothing that is too low either. Moderate is always good but everyone has different opinion when it comes to feeding high or low protein. I also think that dogs are omnivores not carnivores but again everyone has different opinion on this.

it is a smaller kibble, yes.. ;) :)

I just looked at NVs website and checked out the nutrional info on Instinct. It says protein at 42% as well, so it is the same as the Innova I am currently using. Guess there would be no reason to switch to that one then.

This is all so confusing. Except for occasional gas, he seems to have no problems on what he is eating. And I am not sure where the gas is coming from either. He has always had just a little very occasionally though, nothing regular. It has gotten a little more frequent since I switched from homecooked patties to raw. He has been on Innova for 5 months though so I don't think it is from that. In another post I was told that it is not good that he has this gas, that something is irritating his tummy!!! I just don't know what to do.......