Fleas and Frontline Help Please

[Ellie May]

Ellie hasn't had fleas in the longest time.
It just isn't an issue with her lifestyle.
I'm dog sitting a lab/poodle mix pup (long black hair).
This dog was scratching her sides and I thought she might have fleas.
Belly check showed none.
Then I woke up with a flea bite and there was a flea on Ellie.
We are de-fleaing the house (boric acid on mattresses and carpet and washing bedding).
I have now found seven fleas on big dog (unless I keep seeing the same one which would be just about impossible).
Had to use Frontline. I thought there was a 100% kill rate in 18 hours but it has been that and I just saw one one her.
Her crate needs to be cleaned but it is huge and a style that should really be done with the hose. Um, this is Michigan and it is waaaaaaaay too cold to do that..........
Now I don't know if the Frontline isn't working as well as it should be or?
I used Dawn on Ellie but am seeing more now.
She will have to be treated...probably with Advantage because I've used Advantix before with no reactions. I feel terrible about making her liver handle it...

Question: It isn't easy to see fleas on this dog because of her coat and I just saw one. I'm sure she has more. How long do I wait to decide that Frontline isn't working and talk to the vet about using something else?

There always seems to be drama around here.

And as much as I'd like to go "natural", we may already have an infestation problem and that isn't going to work here. I also will use chemicals over tea tree oil...

[Wylie's Mom]

Oh darn, how miserable! I just don't know enough about the flea treaments (prescription) bc we don't have a huge problem around here.

But, if you want something natural to go with the chemical stuff, you might try Neem Oil and Neem Spray. I've seen it at premium pet food stores, Whole Foods, Health Food Stores (for humans too ). It's kind of both a treatment and a repellent.

Ark Natural Neem Spray for Pets

[donnarod]

Tricksie never goes in the yard because of the flea problem in FL. She would still get them once in a while and Frontline nor Advantage worked. She is taking Comfortis by Lilly, you can give them 1 pill a month but I don't unless I see a flea. Have not had any fleas for 3 months and yesterday I found some and gave her a pill. It kills them in 30 min. Call your Vet and see if they carry it.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by donnarod

Tricksie never goes in the yard because of the flea problem in FL. She would still get them once in a while and Frontline nor Advantage worked. She is taking Comfortis by Lilly, you can give them 1 pill a month but I don't unless I see a flea. Have not had any fleas for 3 months and yesterday I found some and gave her a pill. It kills them in 30 min. Call your Vet and see if they carry it.

Does it do just the adults or eggs also?

[donnarod]

It kills fleas before they can lay eggs. I never see any on her after giving the pill.

[donnarod]

go to Comfortis.com - Home

[PrincessDiana]

I was going to suggest the Capstar pill also. It kills all adult fleas within a couple of hours. Then I would treat with Frontline and go about cleaning the rest of the house.

[donnarod]

I use Comfortis and never have to clean fleas in the house.

[PennysMum]

Capstar is a thing of beauty-- once you give it, fleas will just be falling off dead within 20 minutes. There's no way to beat that for providing immediate relief to your dog. I'd actually recommend Revolution over Frontline if your vet carries it-- Revolution is a lot gentler on the dog while still having a strong kill action vs. fleas. It is the only product of its sort that is safe enough to be categorized as a pharmaceutical instead of a pesticide.

After seeing fleas, you should use a flea preventative on your dog for at least three consecutive months, in order to prevent reinfection as fleas that may have been at a life stage that the product could not kill mature.

on note on Frontline-- because the product uses the oils in your dog's skin in order to spread, if your dog has dry skin, it may be ineffective. In cold weather with the heat on, a lot of dogs develop dry skin! That could very well be what is preventing it from being as effective as it should be.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by PennysMum

Capstar is a thing of beauty-- once you give it, fleas will just be falling off dead within 20 minutes. There's no way to beat that for providing immediate relief to your dog. I'd actually recommend Revolution over Frontline if your vet carries it-- Revolution is a lot gentler on the dog while still having a strong kill action vs. fleas. It is the only product of its sort that is safe enough to be categorized as a pharmaceutical instead of a pesticide.

After seeing fleas, you should use a flea preventative on your dog for at least three consecutive months, in order to prevent reinfection as fleas that may have been at a life stage that the product could not kill mature.

Thanks for the response.
I had read some very concerning things about Revolution, so I've avoided it. Three consecutive months is the way to go I'm sure but Ellie has a compromised liver and me giving it even one time is extremely frustrating because I don't want her body to have to deal with it at all. I hope to get around treating for the next two months but if we have to, we have to.

I'm thinking if the big dog still has fleas tomorrow, I will be talking to the vet about products like Capstar for her because I know she has the bigger issue out of the two dogs...

[_Chrissy_]

The Comfortis sounds nice. But we have a big problem with ticks here to. Do they make one like that for ticks?
I give Max K9 Advantix for fleas/ticks.

[bellasmomok]

Crystal,
Just an FYI.....the pill form of flea meds like Comfortis and Capstar, I believe, kill only the fleas that are on the dog at the time (within 1 hour......I don't know how long it keeps killing, though, so you might want to check that, but as far as I know it a quick fix and not a lasting treatment). Does the big dog go outside? I'm wondering if it's an area problem now......If the dog your keeping had a lot of fleas, then some of those jumped off into your yard and house and layed eggs, and it's going to take awhile for them to all be killed off. Washing with Dawn and even treating with Frontline, etc... won't get them all if there is any kind of infestation, which it sounds to me like you have since you've had a bite yourself. I think the Frontline is probably working, but if a new flea gets on Ellie, then it will be dead within 18 hours, but no product keeps fleas from getting back on them if there are more, which there usually are. All you can do is keep after it until they're all gone. It's getting very cold out, which is probably helping to drive the fleas indoors too, especially since they got a ride from your new furry friend!

I know you're looking for something to help Ellie without having to use chemicals because of her liver, so I wanted to tell you something I heard about awhile ago. It's called Diatomaceous Earth, and it kills fleas and other parasites by piercing their exoskeleton. I've heard of people sprinkling it around their home, especially next to baseboards, and I know farmers put it in their grain silos to keep the bugs out. There is actually a food grade D. E., which means you probably eat some everyday and don't even know it, since it's used in grains! That might be something good to use in the future or even as a preventative!

If it were me, I'd use Frontline on Bella, even though she has liver issues too, if fleas ever got to the point of biting me, because that would mean the problem was bigger than Dawn, etc... can handle. I don't think it's the Frontline not working, I think you're probably still in the process of getting the fleas under control. I definitely think you have a bigger problem than you can see....those nasty buggers multiply so quickly, it doesn't take long for that to happen!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by bellasmomok

Crystal,
Just an FYI.....the pill form of flea meds like Comfortis and Capstar, I believe, kill only the fleas that are on the dog at the time (within 1 hour......I don't know how long it keeps killing, though, so you might want to check that, but as far as I know it a quick fix and not a lasting treatment). Does the big dog go outside? I'm wondering if it's an area problem now......If the dog your keeping had a lot of fleas, then some of those jumped off into your yard and house and layed eggs, and it's going to take awhile for them to all be killed off. Washing with Dawn and even treating with Frontline, etc... won't get them all if there is any kind of infestation, which it sounds to me like you have since you've had a bite yourself. I think the Frontline is probably working, but if a new flea gets on Ellie, then it will be dead within 18 hours, but no product keeps fleas from getting back on them if there are more, which there usually are. All you can do is keep after it until they're all gone. It's getting very cold out, which is probably helping to drive the fleas indoors too, especially since they got a ride from your new furry friend!

I know you're looking for something to help Ellie without having to use chemicals because of her liver, so I wanted to tell you something I heard about awhile ago. It's called Diatomaceous Earth, and it kills fleas and other parasites by piercing their exoskeleton. I've heard of people sprinkling it around their home, especially next to baseboards, and I know farmers put it in their grain silos to keep the bugs out. There is actually a food grade D. E., which means you probably eat some everyday and don't even know it, since it's used in grains! That might be something good to use in the future or even as a preventative!

If it were me, I'd use Frontline on Bella, even though she has liver issues too, if fleas ever got to the point of biting me, because that would mean the problem was bigger than Dawn, etc... can handle. I don't think it's the Frontline not working, I think you're probably still in the process of getting the fleas under control. I definitely think you have a bigger problem than you can see....those nasty buggers multiply so quickly, it doesn't take long for that to happen!

Doesn't boric acid accom;ish the same thing as DE?
I had to vacuum it up before the dogs could get to it though and am worried about the BA safety...

I hate using pesticides on Ellie because of her liver but another huge concern is that she can be a sensitive little girl and her vet and her back-up vet weren't in yesterday I don't think. The other vets around here I don't really want touching her, so I was in a spot. We had never used Frontline on her before. I did it anyway because obviously I had no choice and she did just fine. Although when the big dog got her Frontline she scratched quite a bit (fleas dying probably) and Ellie didn't. I am not even convinced Ellie had an issue at all...only a couple of them that who knows if they laid eggs or not. After a was around the big dog looking through her hair, I had one in my hair. I'm not surprised I got bit because the big dog was on the couch and Ellie and I are attached for a lot of the day, so just one crawling on her could've caused that.

Big dog is still scraching up a storm but I only saw one after using FL, so I'm sure they're either bites that are making her scratch or she keeps getting them from somewhere. Our house is sprayed and it is extremely cold here, so I'm not sure if outside is the problem. Ellie never has issues out there. I am thinking maybe it was the big dog's crate and I washed it but could only use Dawn, which I know will not do a thing for the eggs, because there is no way I could rinse it well, so I couldn't use chemicals. Because I have cleaned about as much as I am going to for now, if I see another one of the big dog, the vet will be hearing from me.

I think Comfortis only does adults for one month. It kills them so they can't lay eggs but it won't help with the eggs already on the dog. I'm sure capstar is similar, so we will see.

Oh, and to top it all off, I decided that I would have to get over it and treat Ellie but she walked in her "business" and had to have a half bath. Who knows if the FL will continue to work now since it hasn't been 48 hours and I do NOT want to retreat her.

[bellasmomok]

Oh, good grief! You're having a time of it . I almost want to say that as long as you continue checking Ellie and she doesn't have any, I wouldn't treat her (again). If the crate is the issue, and I'm betting you're right about that!, maybe you could treat it with Frontline (they have it in a spray), or even buy one of those sprays they sell to treat your home. I of course would do it outside on the porch, or the driveway, or whereever you're able to--I know it's cold out there, so you may not have many options (maybe in the garage even?).....maybe that would have the effect you're looking for BUT also keep Ellie away from those chemicals. I bet the big dog is scratching from bites just like you said....and the eggs that are on it should be dead if you treated him with Frontline too, so that shouldn't be a concern. Comb his neck, the base of his ears, and the base of his tail to check for any new ones since that seems to be their favorite place to congregate, and do the same for Ellie, but I think it will all be over very soon!

I'm not sure how boric acid works, and I'm not sure about it's safety either....that's why I suggested the D.E. I've heard BA works well, and since you've already used it, I wouldn't think you'd need to do anything else, but maybe have the D.E. on hand for next time (which we'll hope you never have to use anyway!!)---that way you'll be able to use something that isn't a chemical.

[PrincessDiana]

Just an FYI, DE is simply little earth particles that literally stab (is that too violent?) the fleas as they are wandering around your carpet. It is all natural!