Worried sick about my yorkie "harley"
 

I am so glad i found this forum again, i am seriously concerned about my 4 year old son, harley. He lives a life of luxury and is taken to the vet for any little scare because he almost died about 1 1/2 ago, still dont really understand why? He is a very picky eater. He does not get any table food, and was on the eukanuba pouches until recall. He tested them, an and liver level was eleveated. Long story short, we got past all that, with the help of my wonderful vet, meds, and a lot of tlc. About 9 months ago, he collapsed at my parents house, and i rushed him to the emergency clinc, he was dehyrated, and had thrown up blood, was very constipated, but when he did have a bowel movement it was bloddy and loose with mucas in it. They thought he had "hge", by process of elimination, and was treated for that with fluids, pills, and many visits back to have blood panels checked. He has been on the hills i/d canned food since he was switched from the eukanuba. After the liver was determined to be damaged, he was switched to the l/d hills. After 2-3 months of this, he was released and given a clean bill of health. The vet said he just has a very sensitive stomach and digestive system. I totally understand that part. He has been back on the i/d now, and gets no treats at all, and about 3 weeks ago, harley got sick again. He would be okay for a few days, then down, would not eat or drink, then cried when i tried to pick him up, stomach very noisy during the night, i couldnt sleep, his breathing seems weird, and he doesnt act right, his bowels continue to get backed up, he scoots, and you can tell he is so uncomfortable, back to the vet we went, he was dehyrdrated again, another $400 later, we leave with different food, purina one, suppposedly for small breeds and helps with digestive and intestine tract disorders, but same results. I am at the point where i want my baby to just live a happy life and be able to be a doggy and run and play, and not be sick and bloated, or have diarrea, it's always one extreme to the other, very active, playful, eats, or sickly, constipated and dont eat. They have taken xrays, countless blood panels, and cant seem to figure out the problem. I want to find the right food for him that he will eat, and be able to digest and live a normal happy life as a pampered pooch! Every night i lay with my hand on him to make sure he is breathing and i am scared to death something is wrong that no one has found yet. Please advise...

I don't have any advice, but hopefully someone else can help you on YT. It sounds like you are a great furbaby mom and I am so sorry your little one is having so many problems. We are glad you are here at YT - Welcome.

hmmmm....I don't know :confused:

When TJ was a baby he had issues. These noises would come from him that I thought was a monster in his tummy. He had globs of mucus poops, then the runny stools, and vomit. He was put on the antib Metro (short sp version) but that didn't help him, then we did a restriction diet, a single source protein Duck/Potato flavor. That helped a little. Then we did a blood panel which showed his Folate levels were high. The Vet said IBD - over growth of bacteria in his small intestines. We tried Tylan Powder, which worked for TJ. Finally after a year of the Tylan he was able to resume a normal life ;)

On another note....Has he had a Bile Acid Test done?

Hills and Purina are bad food Rx or not!! It makes me so angery that vets still tell people to feed there dogs bad food!!!:mad:
There are alot of other people on here that can tell you what food worked for there dogs.
Also check any food you chose for Citric Acid, if it has citric acid do not put water in it as it can cause bloat, which might be causing your dogs symptoms. citric acid is fine other wise.

well it's probably the food- like the last poster i'm furious vets prescribe crap.

THE BEST ADVICE i can give you is to contact Susan Davis- she is a registered pet nutritionist and I think she has saved Layla's life. Layla has pancreatitis and her vet wanted her on that crap food they get paid to sell. I said no and contacted Susan and Layla is on a GREAT home made diet.
Her website is askariel.com and i honestly think you should give it a try- it is 75 dollars for a one hour phone consult- you fill out a form when you order to say what your dog's health issues are- they email you with a few times that might work and you email back and say which one you can do and then you call her at that time and she is BEYOND helpful- she is specialized in dog nutrition- which ALL vets should be in my opinion.

His tummy is probably making noise at night because it is empty- layla's does that- she used to throw up bile every morning- now before she goes to bed she gets some pro biotic yogurt with some baby food fruit- it has relaly helped- you shoudl try that.

so DOES he have liver issues or no? if not- until you get the appoinemtn- put him on a diet of white rice and boiled chicken breast- it is easy on his tummy. If he is constipated- use pure canned pumpkin - NOT spiced- it really helps- Layla gets it as part of her diet Susan gave her and it keeps her poops great! (pumpkin works both ways- to dry up diarrhea and to help when they are plugged up)

I can't say enough great things about Susan- and there are many memebrs on here who have used her and also say GREAT things. I think it will change your dogs life and you will notice within a week of his new diet a different dog.

Has the vet done a bile acids test and a spec cPL to check liver function and to see if he has pancreatitis?

A lot of those systems sound like pancreatitis or severe IBD.
Was an intestinal biopsy done?

With the liver enzymes up, a bile acids test should've been done to make sure there is no functioning issue.

L/D canned food is not that bad and I would consider feeding it if it worked.
Can you post his blood work results?

If he really has liver issues, I would most definitely switch him back to canned l/d or put him on royal canin hepatic ls 14....If your baby has liver issues, the i/d is very bad for him. IBD, liver issues, GI issues all tie in together. My yorkie has liver problems as well, and he also has GI issues (gastritis and possible ulcers). Throwing up like that is not normal. When he threw up blood was it Frank blood or was it just pink? If it's frank blood, it's very likely that your baby has gastritis and possibly ulcers...Carafate is given to these dogs to help coat their stomachs. It should be given an hour before mealtime. The constipation is also a symptom of liver problems...If he acts sick when he's constipated it's probably because the toxins are backing up in his system...Lactulose is given to liver compromised dogs as well...

Yes i will post his blood panels tonight when i get home. My vet can not honestly answer what harley has or does not have. Liver issues, yes, is it under control today; probably, we have done ultrasounds, chest xrays, blood panels, did he have hge?, yes we "think" so, probably under control now. I have contacted my vet again to get all records, xrays, and meds he has been on since he first got sick. He just had to get fluids last week. I have been studying this forum, i did get him the "wellness - duck/potatoe to try last night, he loved it, and had a normal bowel movement. This morning i treid the wellness whitefish/?, he ate it, we will see. I gave him some yougurt last night, he only licked the spoon a little, not real crazy about it. I bought the organic pumpkin yesterday. How do you feed this to them, with their other food? Or a certain amount by itself? How much? I also bought a book on natural health for dog and cats. I will try anything to get my baby normal - thanks for your help

The bad thing is he has been switched back and forth between i/d and l/d and now purina o/m- i am done with all of these, he has been sick since he began the hills diet. I am looking at other solutions. I dont know i am going to do yet.

I think you need to pick a food and stick with that one, b/c all these different foods given on any given day can cause an upset.

When you get his bloodwork post it here so we can take a look and try to guide you with the 'right' direction.

Yorkieluv is probably the MOST experienced with all of this, so I would go by her advice ;)

My Yorkie recently got dx with a liver shunt. She had alot of the symptoms of your Yorkie.

Her liver ezymes (sp?) were very high. Had a bile acid test done. It was abnormal. Vet indicated she may have a liver shunt. Took her to a Board Certified Radiologist, who did an ultrasound. He confirm a liver shunt.

Fortunately, the type of liver shunt she had, can be corrected by surgery. We just can not afford it right now. In the meantime, she is on a low protein diet. Hills K/D.

Sorry i didn't read all the replies. Have you had your vet do a bile acid test? That is the first step of liver shunt.

GOod luck.

I am so sorry to hear about your baby...I hope you will be able to get her the surgery needed. Have you looked into the University of Tenn? Dr. Tobias is highly recommended and ppl here have gone there and had the surgery and it cost about $1300 :thumbup:

P.S. I believe K/D is BAD to be feeding a Liver Shunt dog. Others will chime in soon, but I think it may have Pork Liver in it and that is VERY HARMFUL to be feeding an LS dog.

Hills canned l/d or royal canin hepatic ls 14 is BEST for LS dogs :thumbup:

I would really hate for you to be doing more damage to her liver by stressing it with the wrong food.

Please join this group: DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

They are very experienced with LS dogs and they have a great support system and a wealth of knowledge to guide you to help your baby!

I'm sorry about your little girl.:(

She is on supplement until surgery can be done, right?
Low protein is a good idea but the type of protein is also very important.
K/D contains the wrong kind of protein (pork).
Both K/D and L/D dry contain ethoxyquin.
I wouldn't give either.
As Nicole said, L/D canned and Royal Canin LS 14 are the best.
Royal Canin tends to make Yorkies itchy.
I would try the L/D canned first.

A lot of vets don't know much about dietary management of LS evidently because they grab the K/D (probably because they see it is low protein) without studying the ingredients.

Crystal,
What is the protien source in the canned L/D? Still awaiting the results of my baby's bile acids, but beginning to plan a diet change with supplements if they are abnormal, which I suspect. Thanks! (I know you home cook, and I'm thinking of doing that....do you cook every day or do you make up a batch every now and again? Just trying to find what will work best consistently for us....what do you think of NV fish and potato?? I'm not sure what proteins are ok and which ones need to be avoided...)

I think I just answered (part of) my own question:
Canned:
l/d® Canine
Dry:
l/d® Canine

I guess the major protein source is dried egg and soy?? (Also, looks like the dry contains "Pork Protein Isolate" whatever that is, but I don't see ethyoxyquin in the ingredients....should it be there or do we just know it's there?) Lots of other ingredients I don't like though....I guess I'd need to home cook. If you don't mind, would you tell me a little about that...like what protein you use in home-cooking, etc...?

Looking at these ingredients, honestly these liver disease diets would be a last resort for me. Even the "good" canned L/D and I think RC LS 14 contains menadione. I don't see ethoxyquin in the L/D dry (maybe they took it out?) but I would not give pork. If she is asymptomatic, you might be able to do Natural Balance Vegetarian or something along those lines. I would give you Ellie's recipe but her nutritionist did low-moderate protein and any meat source basically (maybe because she is pretty much asymptomatic). I think we are okay with it but I wouldn't recommend it for other liver compromised dogs.

Some of the better proteins are tofu, cottage cheese and egg.
Fish is okay for some dogs and you might get away with chicken.
Turkey is very questionable and I would not use red meat, pork or exotics at all. Some of this depends on who you ask. Does that answer your question?

By far my favorite diet for liver compromised dogs is homecooked.
Oh, and I cook once or twice a month and freeze it.
They should eat small meals more often.
Ellie eats three times a day but 4-6 is really better.

Could you post the ingredients to the food you are thinking about?
If I had to feed Ellie kibble, I might go with NB Vegetarian if there are no corn derivatives in it.

Good grief! I said NV, but meant NB....

Here are the ingredients in NB Vegetarian you suggested:
Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Cracked Pearled Barley, Peas, Potato Protein, Canola Oil, Potatoes, Tomato Pomace, Vegetable Flavoring, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberries, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-2 Supplement, Folic Acid.

and here are the ingredients in NB Sweet Potato and Fish:
Sweet Potatoes, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Canola Oil, Potato Fiber, Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Methionine, Choline Chloride, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

I guess that one isn't so good after all....I think Salmon was one you should stay away from for liver-compromised right?? (possible Mercury content or something??)

I guess if her BAT comes back abnormal, I should just pay the money and do the consult on the site you linked in another thread (I saved it!) and/or use the NB Vegetarian. It has 18% protein. I can already see I'm going to have problems feeding her multiple times a day. Bella really will only eat for me once a day usually, but of course she gets kibble. Anytime I offer her a "human food" snack, she eats it. I guess she just likes variety, because she loves her kibble while it's new, and then goes back to eating only passively, but a change in kibble will make her more eager again. My boyfriend could feed her "lunch" I think, but I don't know if I'd be able to do 3 times a day every day :(. I'm pretty sure if I home cooked, she'd eat breakfast even though she won't right now, but I worry if I stick with the same recipe, she'll grow tired of it and will go back to eating like she does now.

Do you ever vary Ellie's diet or is it always the same? I don't know if that's ok at all for liver-compromised pups, but I'd like to if at all possible.....I think it would make for more eager eating and possible less sensitivity or pickiness in the long run but I don't know?

Yes, it is good to vary the diet.
Don't know about the salmon but I've never seen that food recommended for liver compromised dogs.

There is also a nutritionist at Cornell (might know Dr. Center).
You could try him. :)

Any idea how to find him? I tried searching but didn't come up with anything.... :( I'm looking to hear about Bella's BAT tomorrow, so if it's abnormal, I'll probably go ahead and start the process of altering her diet. I would think no matter what the liver problem is (MVD, LS, ??) she probably needs a protein restricted diet and I would rather she starts that now so she stays assymptomatic!! (Someone [not a vet] told me a couple of days ago that as long as she's assympotomatic, there's no need to do any more tests or change anything!!! I said, "well, I'd rather find out and fix it BEFORE she's symptomatic...why wait for neurologic, etc... signs! That only means it's progressed to the point of causing problems!)

Hi...

My Yorkie also has kidney stones and bladder stones. The vet prescribed k/d before liver shunt was confirmed. The vet told me she gave Jordan k/d because she knows it is very low in protein. She will get back to me on which would be better for my Yorkie to be on, K/D or L/D.

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for your reply. I will ask the vet on what you suggested. My Yorkie also has kidney stones and bladder stones.

We have an appointment to consult w/the surgeon on December 1st. The hospital is 2 hours away and they don't have saturday appointment. I'm sure he would give us the cost. I will also let him know, that we can not afford at this time. I know there is medication she can be on. The board certified radiologist, mentioned medication therapy. Perhaps that is an option until we can get the money for surgery.

I've never fed my Yorkie canned food. She has always eaten dry. Again...I will look into your recommendations.

Oh boy, there are serious issues going here with her....I know you don't have the money (yet) for surgery, but I hope you are being told, that she probably can not wait too long. There are also options: Care Credit is one and I am sure there are other place the help :confused:

You should look into the U of Tenn with Dr. Tobias, she is highly recommended for LS surgery and the cost is much, much less than other places.

Canned is better b/c it has more moisture and is less processed than dry.

PLEASE join that Yahoo Group - you will get mush need support and guidance in this critical time :(

We did apply for Care credit. We were not approved.

We can not go to Tenn. to see the surgeon you mentioned.

The hospital we are going to, the surgeon has done many. The ultrasound cost $330 not to mention the cost of gas. The bile acid test cost us $95.00. She had an ultrasound done locally that cost us $150. Turned out the vet was not board certified. She couldn't locate the liver shunt. Before all this, the vet thought she may have addison's disease. Therefore, an ACTH test was done. That cost us $222.00. Thank goodness it was normal. That's when she thought perhaps it's a liver shunt.

The surgical consultation will cost us $105. We are struggling financially.

Thanks

I know we've gotten off on several tangents.....I'm sorry, I know I was part of that!!

BUT, I'm still wondering about your baby's lab results?? I hope he is doing ok tonight....check back in about those results when you get a chance!!

yes there are two great groups the one mentioned and Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support@yahoogroups.com -- dr tobias is the best and i know we just did an auction for another liver shunt baby on some yorky groups and on dogster if you belong on there they do auction as one was done for baby bear on here. I know dr tobias did surgery and we paid the money within 60 days for a yorkie named rosie - maybe the same can be done for yours. join those two groups and there might be some good options to help with yours. Hang in there

dr dodds liver cleansing diet is excellent and we work with Jean dodds and she is wonderful. She uses cod in her diet. I do not recommend salmon -- cod is what i would go with

Hmmm....maybe a credit card or payment plans? I know there have been posts where ppl listed places to try and get $ from ~ I hope it all can work out...
Liver Shunt
Welcome to ALL 4 PETS WNY

There are more sites, but I can't remember where I saw them posted...I'll keep looking though :(


P.S. Please don't take offense to this, but if you can not provide her with the care needed, please consider surrendering her to a Yorkie Rescue. I have had the pleasure of working with two.

Jen at rescuemeyorkie.com
They have a shunt baby right now that they got surgery for (see the website)

Olga at RetroDoggy Rescue,Michigan Yorkshire Terrier Rescue,Michigan Maltese Rescue
They deal with MANY shunt babies, they are extremely knowledge in this area

***TRUST ME - Join this Group: DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

also probiotics are good for digestive issues -- i use dds plus from whole foods

Hi,

I'm new to this site. Just got my puppy 3 weeks ago. I feed my puppy Wellness Dog Food. It is a superior dog food ... all natural ... no meat by-products, gluten, wheat, corn etc ... check out their website and read up on their ingredients. It's health food for your pet. My puppy was on Eukanuba and I switched him over slowly to the Wellness. I also only give him Wellness treats. All of his treats have natural, healthy ingredients.
Watch out for any food/treats that have wheat gluten, or any other common allergens.
Good Luck

Kimberly1717,

I apologize. I replied to your post and then keep going back and forth regarding my Yorkie's situation.

I would like to know what has been going. What are the results of your baby's bloodwork? Have they gotten any closer to finding out a dx?

I just found this board today and look forward to being a part of it.