I'm for it! I see a lot of raw myths being posted on this thread. For anyone interested in expanding their horizons.... here is a great link that dispels some of these myths.
The Many Myths of Raw Feeding

How exactly do you guys do the raw feeding? Where do you get your meat from? What preparations do you make?
How did you get your dogs used to eating it? Mine have been eating homecooked---my first for 7 years....
I like the idea of raw...but i'm hesitant... I know it is better....but it makes me squirm. However, with Chachi and Izze's dental problems---I'm willing to consider it...but izze has been eating kibble until this year and is only now eating cooked.

I am not sure what you mean by "how do we do" raw feeding.. I am starting next week, but I have already handled the technicalities. I will link 4 pieces of fence together and line that with newspaper, put dogs and meat in them. As for preparing, I think it's just a matter of remembering to take the meat out of the freezer to thaw. Wash it. Some will take the skin off or trim the fat. That is it.

Meat we can get from butchers, supermarkets, I know there are some people out there that gets roadkills (they ask the officials 1st), make deals with hunters, so on so on. There are many ways to get cheaper meat if you'd only put the effort in.

Or if you want easier, but more expensive way, there is always pre-made raw. Nature's variety is very popular.

thanks! Do you have any books that you would recommend?
I was wondering if you got yours "regular" from the supermarket--since you do that answers my question!
I will have to do more research on the nutrition and find a place to feed them this.... and how much to feed.
I already buy fresh at the grocery so I doubt that it would cost more money.... unless I were to buy "brand name" like Nature's variety---which I don't think that I will.
I read that I should go "cold turkey" and give them raw.... but won't that upset their stomachs---going from one way to the other?
I'm going to talk to my vet during my next veterinarian appointment. I think that this might be easier for me If i can figure out how to sanitize everything (ie. the kitchen floor) daily quickly and efficiently.

I went cold turkey and had no tummy upset at all and my collie generally does have a sensitive tummy. But all pups are different.... I wouldn't count on getting a whole lot of support from your vet just be prepared. I get a lot of info from the yahoo rawfeeding site and their sister sites, here's the link rawfeeding : Raw Feeding for dogs and cats! As for sanitizing, just use the same common sense you use with your own food. Remember, you are tracking in god knows what onto your kitchen floors just from your shoes. Not to say I don't clean my floors more than I used to but I try not to go crazy....

1. I admit I haven't found any books that people recommend to me. But one that is obvious to read is Dr Lonsdale's books. Raw Meaty Bones.
Raw Meaty Bones

2. For info on nutritions, you can join the rawfeeding list in yahoo. I am not sure if I am allowed to give the link in this thread. But pm me if you're interested.
Or go to:
Jane Anderson's Raw Learning Site
The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
From these sites, you can find many wonderful links.

3. How much to feed: the guidelines here is to feed as much as 2-3% of your dogs' projected adult weight. But sometimes small dogs will need as much as 4-5% of their adult weight. Basically common sense play a lot in raw feeding the prey model, and you go by "feel". Not very different from kibble. Some dogs need more than is recommended, some less. It all depends on their individual metabolism and amount of exercise they get.

4. If you feed your dogs fresh raw meat, that is called the PREY Model Raw diet, or PMR. To feed pre-made raw is following more to the guidelines of the BARF diet.
BARF Diet - Healthy & Natural Raw Food For Dogs & Cats, Pet Health Care Food & Nutrition Products Supply Online
I personally prefer PMR. But some members do feed Barf and they said their dogs still gets all the benefits of raw. PMR is definitely cheaper, but yes I do admit you have to figure out some things.

5. If you have a pen for your dogs, it will solve the problem on where to feed. Or feed in the crate! Just line it with newspaper. I don't think there'll be problems with kitchen sanitation. Here in Indonesia we still do things very traditionally, and many people still prepare their food on the floor of the kitchen. Raw meat falls off, spices, all kinds of food really, and I've hear none dying of bacterias yet :D In my house we use a good floor cleaner that contains disinfectant. That's all. We don't worry much about sanitary issues caused by feeding the dogs. A lot of these "squirms" we experience regarding germs and all are quite overrated IMO. Say, I know it's normal in the States to wear your shoes inside the house. In my country, that is considered dirty. In the states, people might be really worried about bacterias caused by raw meat in the kitchen. To us here, that's nothing to worry about. People have been preparing raw food for a long time with less hygienic routine than the ones we are used to now. In fact, in some restaurants here you can see them preparing the meat on the floor. People go there and no one have died. Popular restaurants, too. :D

6. If you are going to feed PMR, it is recommended to switch cold turkey. My dogs have steel stomachs, never having problems with switching food. Even with kibble I switch them cold turkey. But that may only apply to my dogs. However, the reason why it's recommended to switch cold turkey is because when you feed raw meat, the dogs' digestive system does have to do some adjustments, and to feed kibble and raw meat at the same time is going to confuse their enzymes and acids in the stomach. It might create more problems than if you switch cold turkey. I believe most common problem here is either food will have trouble being digested.

7. To be honest, if you're going to feed raw food, your vet will most certainly be against it. MOST vets will be against it, either from lack or knowledge or personal belief or even hesitancy to keep an open mind. I have heard horror stories of people going to vet because their dog has a genuine problem (think lead poisoning) and the vet just refused to consider any other cause for its illness. He just kept insisting and arguing the illness is caused by perforations caused by the raw bones, and didn't even do an x-ray. Turns out the dog swallowed a small toy soldier. This is a true story and happened recently. So in raw feeding, I guess you have to make your own decision and stand firm on it. It's a shame because I truly believe this is a great diet.

In any case, good luck with everything. I hope I helped a little.

Thank you Nita and TJ's mom!
I will look through everything and come back with questions later!
Do you know if this can somehow help with luxating patellars? My one poodle has one on her hind leg...she had them on both...but I've been giving her Glucosomine supplements and giving her lots of raw bell peppers, apples, etc... to work with the meds. Can I continue with the raw vegs and meds? I like to feed them all the same which is why i'm asking about my poodles :) Also---the poodles have very sensitive stomachs---could this be a problem? One is allergic to chicken, rice, and carrots--- are there any commonly used meats that I could give them on a regular basis that does not include chicken?
Also---with greenies---can that still give them these? This is their afternoon snack... and I really don't feel like washing floors in the afternoon.
Also (haha, i guess that I have a lot of qs now) do you wash their faces every time they eat?
And I take my shoes off at the front door---so we don't have that problem.... and I have slippers to wear outside that is kept near the sliding door. So cleanliness is very important to me and my mom. We are sloppy---but clean!
Overall, I think this diet is a good idea..I have to figure out quantity and HOW to feed them this...but I can research and try to start feeding them this on new years.

Thanks for all the info!!!

1 more question---Wild fish!!! I have read that raw fish can kill a dog (at least certain types of salmon)...
My bubbies get cooked salmon/talapia with veggies 2 days a week...we have "Fishy Fridays" here at home lol...they love it and it is their favorite.
Can they continue to eat fish?

1. I have NO idea if it will help with LP. Will have to check with more knowledgeable members. TJ's Mom might be able to help, or I can ask some other raw feeders. I am blessed because both my babies are as healthy as horses - well, healthy horses that is :D

2. The PMR diet do not believe in giving the dogs veggies, but if you're asking for my personal opinion/experience, I have found that in my dogs, a lot of veggies go undigested. Therefor I will not feed them unless it's for snacks, and very rarely at that. BUT if you are giving raw veg to work with medications, you will have to ask the vet, or more knowledgeable members.

3. So many other meats to choose from! Do not worry! You can try pork, mutton, lamb, turkey, fowl, rabbit, deer, venison, beef, so on so on. Variety is encouraged, and good! Just remember to feed one kind of meat for a week or two so you can tell if they're doing good on a particular type of meat. If they don't, switch back to the last meat that worked. Simple.

4. In my personal experience, both my girls vomited after eating greenies once so since then, no more greenies in my house. I fed them Kong Ziggies for a while, although that may be a bit big for one serving. Some raw feeders dehydrate liver meats, etc etc, but to be honest I haven't really thought about the questions of convenient snacks. Will get back to you on that.

5. Many don't wash their faces. Some just baby wipe all over. Well.. to be honest... Mocha still goes after her poo.. and sometimes I forget and let her lick my face.. then I remember and it was an "OH S^&*" moment.. But then, "aw f%^* it".. you know what I mean? LOL! I'm still as healthy as my dogs! I'm not worried about bacterias, but maybe smell. I plan to baby wipe of wipe with wet towels when time comes. Faces, paws, maybe legs. That's it.

6. Girl, I have a kind of OCD with my hands.. I wash them maybe 100 times a day.. My feet too.. so I totally understand. I may be messy, but dirty is no no. I guess a very sensible and fast solution is to get some kind of fencing you can put up during mealtime, or a play pen. Fences I got in Jakarta $8 a piece, 4 pieces makes $32. Totally worth it. I use it to fence them in during nights too. Also to gate the stairs, etc etc. I think you may be able to get it cheaper in the states.

Do as much research as you're comfortable with, take as much time as you like. I myself research for 2 whole months while waiting for the kibble to finish. Just having an open mind like your is great!

Posting here usually gives you fast response and great support:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...odel-diet.html

Good luck!

Honestly, I'm not sure it would help with the LP but it sure won't hurt either. I actually give my dogs chicken feet frequently as my senior collie has some arthritis and I figure it won't hurt Zoe. Chicken feet are a natural source of glucosimine. I believe beef trachea is a good source of that as well if chicken is a problem for you. You can find some of this stuff on line as well. You might also find that your poodle can tolerate the chicken if fed raw. I would research that a little more but I'm sure I've come across that on the raw feeding site and if not chicken, yes really anything else is fine! Turkey, pork, lamb, beef. My two LOVE lamb but it's a bit pricey so not something they get often. Also, I recently started posting on freecycle and craigslist and I have been given several pounds of venison as well as other meats but the venison is a big hit! I try to keep my average costs at about $1 a pound. I usually get chicken quarters at walmart for .59 a pound so I can splurge in other areas although I will say that mine eat mostly chicken. As for fish, I believe it's Pacific Northwest salmon that you have to be careful of (don't quote me on that) so I stay away from Salmon for that reason just because I don't really know where the salmon my store carries is coming from. I actually have only fed Talapia and Scallops. The scallops were in my freezer forever and they were freezer burnt - I didn't buy them specifically for the dogs but figured, hey might as well not let it go to waste. Neither were too happy with it although my collie ate it grudgingly. Zoe wouldn't touch it at all. If yours love fish, you should do fine aside from the Salmon. You'll have to let me know what kind of fish they like as I'd like to find one my girls would enjoy!
Keep those questions coming!
Hope I've helped!

I'm for it. Lexi has MVD and actually even though she eats raw and a low protein kibble-the raw is still lower and better protein for her then you could find in other dog foods. We use the reccomended Natures Valley pre-made medallions and it works perfect and then I give them blueberries and carrots for treats they love them and I have had no problems at all with their health.

They actually have more energy now then they did before.:thumbup:

Dogs with compromised livers may have a tendency to have compromised immune systems, so raw could be more risky with them.

Also, it may look lower in protein but it has to be converted to a dry matter basis just like canned. NV is probably somewhere in the 40% protein range. Since non-meat protein is best for the liver, other foods would probably fit better. At the most, chicken might be okay. Maybe turkey but not so much. It really depends on if she is asymptomatic.

There are nutritionists who use raw for liver disease but it is really not recommended.

How is her blood work on it?
I had heard that liver enzymes in dogs with liver disease may go through the roof with raw...

What protein % did the vet want her on?

Lexi is asymptomatic-the vet said I didn't have to change her diet at all-in fact what I was feeding her before was considered higher protein but the vet didn't have an issue with givng Lexi the chicken NV. She said if I was looking at dry dog food and wanted to know what maybe high she said anything over 26% is the general quideline but again she said I didn't need to change anything if I didn't want to and reccomnded a good EFA supplement.

I do raw everyother day and have a lower protein kibble in between. They do have vegetable medallions too so I thought I would try it next but wanted to start with the chicken. I think lexi would eat the vegetable one but I don't know if Zeus would. I did get a lot of feedback too from other pet owners who have seen really good results with their babies who have MVD and Liver issues and feed them raw so I feel good about giving it to her.

I started feeding raw to my cats because my Siamese was getting sooo fat even on good quality, diet kibble. We were only feeding 1/4 cup twice a day but he still got really fat--- I he should weigh about 9 pounds and he got up to 14 pounds.

I made the food at first with various meats I bought, chopped, bagged and froze but this was too hard and I eventually went back to kibble. My slim kitty got fat again. Also I wasn't giving bones because raw chicken wings ended up all over the house. I think this would be a problem with dogs too unless you fed them in a crate. They really need the bones for the calcium.

I ended up buying this product !! AFS-Real Food for Real Pets !!

I can get it locally from a dealer so I don't pay the shipping and it has ground bones in it. This doesn't satisfy the benefits of crunching the bones, but it is what I have been feeding.

I am feeding the puppy the same food, the cat patties -- the dealer said it was the same as the dog patties but I have emailed the company. They sell a 2 oz dog patty also. A 6 pound dog should have 1, 2 oz patty (1/2 and 1/2) a day. I have been feeding this amount to the puppy who is 4 lbs now. They cost 60 cents each without shipping assuming my dealer charges the suggested retail price. Daisy (my yorkie) eats it all in 15 seconds making me wonder if she is getting enough. But then her tummy seems full and she doesn't act hungry all day.

In short, I, like all of you, am doing what I think is best for my pets but always wonder and worry if I am doing the right thing. The same was true with raising my children.

I am interested in the experiences of others with feeding raw food as well.

Just my 2 cents
I do not raw feed but only because I am afraid my skinny little 5yr old daughter could get Ecoli or salmonella. She is slobbered on all the time and I have busted her drinking out of there dish :eek:
How ever my neighbor has been raw feeding for more than 12 years and her 3 dogs are very healthy!! In 12 years she has had no problems!!