What is the Best?
 

I only have them on Royal Canin b/c it's the only Food they will eat consistantly. What is the Best kind/brand for them? The so-called Fat Burner ingredient is "L Carnitine" w/c is an Amino Acid. What brand has Low or NO Carbohydrates? Could be all the fillers that are making them gain the weight?
They are huge and blowing up? I don't know what to do anymore?
At this point I'm so worried and confused!

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I too lurked about before joining and before I got my puppy a few weeks back and have learned quite a bit. Between reading the posts from the more knowledgeable of you, reading on the internet and just plain common sense, I already knew what is sold at the grocery stores, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc. is just crap. And, the canned dog foods that were sold back when I was little (and from what I remember from when I fed our family dogs) 40 + years back bear little resemblance to today's canned foods. The brands that were sold then don't even exist today. Alpo, Cadillac, Kennel Ration, etc. They actually looked more meaty with veggies in them. Today, everything is so over processed with way too many hormones, chemicals and preservatives in them, no wonder they are not fit for neither human nor animal consumption. And, is it any wonder that allergies, cancers, etc are up in both humans and animals? Unfortunately, as it is with humans, the best quality foods that have the least "crap" in them are more expensive, so also are the animal foods.
So, to make a long story short, the premium foods are the way to go. I myself am using Wellness and Molly seems to be doing quite nicely on it.
Carolyn :animal36

Try:

Wellness
Natural Balance
Nature's Variety
The Honest Kitchen
Orijen
Merrick Before Grain

Try to learn how to read the ingredients label. You can find a lot of information here:
The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

Read through the site and you will be a whole lot more knowledgeable than you are now.

I am an advocate for feeding raw, either pre-made like Nature's Variety Medallions or Prey Model. That I believe is way more healthy than kibbles or canned food. Look for that and see if you like it. But I used to feed Orijen and I really liked it.

It's great that you realize that your dogs will benefit from no carbs, that is correct. They cannot digest carbs well, or at all.

When did you switch to Royal Canin?
Were they bloated before you switched?

While they could have a sensitivity to one or more the ingredients thus causing the bloat, the carbs in themselves most likely are not. Ellie eats a diet with plenty of carbs (she has to for medical reasons). She isn't bloated... I would figure out how many calories your dogs need a day and then see how many they are getting on this food.

Did you switch to it slowly?
What is the guaranteed analysis?

That's a pretty broad, unfair generalization if you ask me. I don't deny the fact that many vets recommend foods based off what they are gettting paid by the manufacturers and not all vets are highly knowledgeable in regards to pet nutrition, individualized pet nutrition at that. But some are. Some vets and specialists within their clinics HAVE gone to great lengths to educate themselves in the areas of nutrition and can be a tremendous help to those trying to determine the proper diet.

As you stated about misinformation, I'm not trying to pick a fight either, but it's not fair or accurate to automatically discredit every vet out there with such a broad declaration.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not satisfied enough to just take someone's word for it or pick at random some food that a few individuals decided in their opinion needed a '5-star' rating.

It only stands to reason that individual breeds, and individual dogs for that matter, have specific needs that may be filled nutritionally that are not the same for the next breed or dog even. Why would it not be possible to pinpoint those issues and create a breed specific formula that targets them? (With the realization that it still may not be the best option for all.)

I'm also not one to supplement just for the heck of it. I try my best, with help, to determine WHAT specific supplements my dogs need and administering it as required, changing it as needed.

The "I-feed-my-dog-this-so-you-should-too" mentality that I see alot is really bothersome, IMO. What works best for one dog may not be an option for the next. Would it not be more prudent to encourage those looking to improve their dog's diet to research, educate themselves and examine how to fulfil their dogs individual needs rather than giving them suggestions and having them choose blindly with no reason behind why they are choosing that particular brand?

that would be why i used the word "Generally". Yup there are the fews gems out there that know what they are talking about when it come to pet nutrition but many don't.

My suggestion, if you are unhappy with what you are feeding Duke now, would be to research what nutrients you feel he is not getting with his current food and change foods or supplement as needed. Do trial and error runs and compare the differing results. DON'T swap his food all at once, do it gradually to avoid digestive upset. Keep in mind, that what is best for one person's dog--even the 'higher quality foods'-- may not be the best match for YOUR'S. You are the most qualified to determine what works best for Duke. :)

I know exactly what you mean! I have been through the exact same thing with 2 of mine, resulting in the near death of one of them. :eek: All because I listened too much to others and had myself convinced that I was poisoning them. When it comes down to it I and I alone know what is the best option and the individual needs of my crew, and if that is feeding what some may consider "garbage", well me and my garbage fed dog will try not to lose too much sleep over it. I'll take my chances on feeding a lower quality food and making sure they get the supplements they are lacking over that any day! :thumbup:

If a vet is not educated in pet nutrition and a person asks about it I think they should tell the client to contact a nutritionist. The reason I found a new vet was mine said "my friend from school is a nutritionist, he recommends Science Diet" enough said there :rolleyes: now my current vet is a vet/nutrionist/and massage therapy so I trust what she says when it comes to those 3 things. When discussing LP (Diggy is a grade 3-4) she said I need to speak to an orthopedic dr, thats is specialty Im not going to pretend to know it all :). I know General info not detail. I think same goes with nutrition. If nutrition isnt a specialty of your vet, doesnt make them bad, it makes them not an expert at it thats all and you should contact a nutritionist if its more than a general question about it. To me nutrition is HUGE you are what ya eat :D.

Well said.

It is NOT ok to feed your dogs garbage- but if you feel confident in it that's fine- but you can't be telling people it is ok- do you feed children mcdonalds day in day out? many dogs go their whole lives eating crap and die from cancer (i've had a dog that that happened to- before i knew about dog nutrition) and I think people use the excuse "they are just dogs" When they are threatened by not knowing- and it can be dautning trying to pick a food but no matter what i'd never let my dog eat garbage food- i just think she is too important and there are other ways around it than just giving into what they will eat.

Ellie's vet told me to look online or talk to a nutritionist because they just aren't taught too much about it in vet school. Now she could continue to study it on her own (and she might be now, I don't know) but not everyone can be an expert on it. She has other interests that other vets don't know as much about...

Ellie's nutritionist likes Science Diet but I'm not using her to talk to her about her opinions on dog food. I went to her to get an AAFCO approved homemade recipe and that I did get.:) If the vet or nutritionist doesn't lean toward holistic medcine, I think they are less likely to be too concerned about ingredients.



Big dogs and small dogs can and do do well on the same foods. I think it has a lot to do with activity level and the individual dog. Breed specific formulas aren't necessary in my opinion. Ellie isn't on a breed specific homemade diet but I add what I think she needs for her health. Things like glucosamine may be added for Yorkies but it has to be from the right source at the right amount and I don't really trust dog food companies enough to believe that they care about this and are using the right products... I would prefer to add my own.

If a dog is having a hard time on "premium" foods, then they obviously should be switched but I wouldn't want to go so far as to start feeding foods with ingredients that are banned in other countries (ethoxyquin mostly). Also, if the preservatives are so horrible that humans are warned about them and the food is full of something like high fructose corn syrup or questionable, unnamed animal products, there have got to be other options...

Yep I agree completely. If its a general question about fleas, teeth, vaccines etc., heck yes a vet knows what they are doing and I trust that. But really nutrition has taken a whole new face in our ear. Its very important and every dog is so different. I would want to know my options and what needs a yorkie has in general. I know a lab requires different nutrition than say a great dane. Or if your dog has skin issues again its a different need. Im very close to contacting an allergy specialist. If my vet tells me today Bellas hives are not from a flea bite...Im going to have to go to someone who specializes in it. I dont expect my vet to be the knower of all. Its also good to have a vet that admits when its over their head. I has NO issuse with honesty and wanting whats best for my babies!

Please have more respect for the food choices others have made, I have done the research and not just the three or four links promoted by the raw food experts, and I disagree with their findings. There is absolutely no proof that the foods constantly touted as the best for them are indeed the best, and no proof that that any one diet will make them free from disease.

It's not about respect. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone- i just don't think that garbage is the only answer. I have said nothing about raw- some choose it but i wouldn't. I just cna't let other say- the bad quality foods ARE ok if your dog will eat it- i don't believe that and if someone has no knowledge on food- and sees that- they might not look any further and just keep on feeding what they are feeding. I just want to give my opinion too- so that's what i'm doing

yep thats exactly what I was getting at. Vets cannot be knowers of all and I truely think a great vet admits that you need to contact a specialist. I appreciate it. :)

I totally agree that even though I will choose to feed "premium" and homecooked foods and will not recommend certain foods for their ingredients, I have no proof that says dogs fed homecooked food live longer or dogs fed Innova live longer than those fed SD, etc.

true but what about all the recalls? And all the dogs that died from kidney failure? Those were all lower end foods.... their standards aren't high enough.

Natural Balance was recalled.
Foods made at Diamond were recalled because of aflatoxin...and there was something online about them putting things through that they shouldn't have leading to this. That killed several dogs. Canidae is now manufactured there as is Chicken Soup, I believe and lots of other big names. I would really hesitate to feed any food made there.

I wouldn't want to give anything where any of the ingredients are from China (although that's about impossible with vitamins). That wheat gluten issue was because of that. As for quality control in general, I would sooner pick a company like SD because they have the money to do more testing on their foods. Not saying I am recommending it but I think there can be benefits when feeding food from a larger company. Of course this isn't always the case because look at Mars and Nutro...

And hasn't Merrick had three recalls?
One for metal in the food, one for possible salmonella and one when they were manufacturing a food for someone else and dogs started dying (could be wrong)?

*sigh* so overwhelming- another reason to home cook- who would have guessed that dog food could be so confusing!

I edited my last post and added more.
If you ever wondered why I don't put Merrick on the "good" list, that's why. Well, that and they use garlic.

Yup, more reasons to homecook but I'm sure the vitamins Ellie gets are from China.

Yes, and I thought my dog was too important to die for me continue trying to force feed her the "quality foods" when there were better alternatives. No one here is trying to convince anyone else to feed their dogs a low end food IF and WHEN there is a better option. But reality is, that is not always the case and certainly not as easy as it is often portrayed here. That's why I am an advocate of the Research, Educate Yourself and do what is best for YOUR dog train of thought.
I personally would never try to tell anyone that a 'garbage' food is "OK" NOR would I try to convince anyone that a 'high quality' food is "OK" for their dog, because bottom line is, I don't know what is the best option for THEIR dog anymore than the next person. No one can know if there are and aren't "ways around it" and what those "ways" may be with any certainty for anyone's dogs but their own. And I certainly don't think it's fair for others to be put down or made to feel bad about what they are feeding their little ones, for whatever reason--in particular under the guise that it must they must "care less" for their dog(s).
I do what I feel is best for mine, and I may be going out on a limb here, but I feel like I am a better judge of that than anyone else here. I trust that everyone here here has the mental capability to make that decision for themselves too.

lol- i think EVERYTHING originates from China... you just can't seem to avoid it!

Likewise, it is concerning that those same people with no knowledge on food will see posts claiming that only the highly rated foods are always the best way to go...just another one of those opinions.
If you disagree with an opinion that's one thing, but when statements like "your dog is going to die from cancer eating that" and "I think my dog is too important to feed what you are feeding yours" are posted in response, it DOES come across in a very bad light, despite how it was intended.
Again, it comes down to what is best for the individual dog, and we as individual owners, with actual inside of the situation, are the best judge of that.

You said it! :thumbup:

How far are you from me? Im just south of Detroit. I would LOVE to have you teach me a few things ;) My vet is coming to my house today, and I have a millllllion questions for her. Bella has hives AGAIN and I did find a flea on her last week. So if she concludes this is a reaction to fleas then I have a BIG combat on my hands for next summer when the lovely lil critters bloom again :( I would like to do this all natural if possible. I need a sure way to repel them from getting on her. Not once they bite her they die. She is hives from head to toe and they come and go. I think she has a few hotspots now where she has dug herself raw. I would like to approach like this....Build up her immune system so if she does get bit she doesnt react so violently. Also treat her skin so that it is unappealing to fleas and heathy for her. Diggy tends to be dry and itchy too so i think i will do for both. My vet is holistic so hopefully she will have great advice for me today. Ill let ya know how it goes and see what you have to add or say about it. I know you have done much homework also and you do not have to be a vet/specialist to be helpful! She is on Wellness Simple Solutions venison formula, wellness venison jerky treats, and wellness venison canned food. ALl grain free and singlwe protein diet. Im leaning away that it is a food allergy. When this same exact thing happened to her this summer 3 diff. vets said atopy and leaned towards grass allergy. Well obviously thats not it. You know what it looks like here in lovely Michigan and outdoor allergy isnt possible at this time. SO that leave fleas? OK i am totally hijacking this thread but maybe this will help the OP consider how important diet is. Essentially everything I am discussing will and does in some way come back to diet and supplements.

I don't think we are terrbily far from each other and I do know what it looks like in Michigan right now. It looks like winter miserableness.:( I don't know much about flea bite allergies, well maybe I know all there is to know. Don't let the dog get bit. lol. Ellie spends most of her time inside and we are sprayed for bugs, so she doesn't get fleas. We don't even use preventatives. Strengthening the immune system, hmm, you are doing probiotics, right?

There are brands that are lower in carbohydrates, but this probably isn't what causing them to "blow up." Complex carbohydrates are different than simple carbohydrates that just turn to sugar rapidly and can cause a drop in blood sugar. Remember, the food amounts on the side of the package are just a guideline, this can vary tremendously depending upon your dogs particular metabolism as well as how much exercise they get. Another factor is snacks, and some are loaded with calories. Joey gained lots of weight after a trick training class, and we had to reduce his calorie intake. The vet suggested cutting the amount of food by 1/3 and adding green beans to make him "feel full." This worked successfully, and Joey was able to lose about 1 ounce a week. I do lots of training with Joey, and now use green beans and his regular food as "treats."

I was....but when she broke out last time I had to strip her down to bare essentials to try and figure out what it is she is reacting to. With testing for food allergies I cannot give ANYTHING besides the single protein diet so now with her breaking out again without probiotics, it obviously wasnt the probiotics doing it. back to square 1 but have a few more answers. Im going to ask for specific food allergy tests too. I would like her tested for grains, fleas, and a few single protein sources (beef, chicken, etc.) I'm fairly certain this is a flea reaction. But we shall see, vet comes in 30 minutes (cannot wait). I would like to treat yard, I know there are plants you can plant to repel fleas, I have read about a spritzer (steeped lemon water) that you can spritz on them to repel also. Brewers Yeast was mentioned by my vet also. She is on sentinnel but that does not repel, kill, nor stop a flea from biting so thats useless in Bellas case.

Are you sure you want to do food allergy testing?
That is considered by some to be a waste of money.
It can show false positives and false negatives.
The only real way to see if a dog is allergic to a food is to feed it...
I don't think probiotics would cause such a severe reaction and it may be somewhat useful. If you saw a flea on her and this happened and you have been using a single protein food that has a novel protein and not-so-common carbs/starches, it may very well be fleas because what else could it be...