LUXATING PATELLA Grade 3

[spanky's mom]

So we were at the new vet yesterday getting Violett her las set of shots and Spanky got his yearly booster (which to our surprise he did extremely well for) The Vet who we just love by the way said that Spanky had LP grade 3 and were we aware of this ? We had no Idea the past vet never said anything (But thats the way he was, in and out next. if youno what i mean) So he said that he wouldn't do surgery on him at this point because although he was grade 3 that he had one with the same and he didnt have any problems till he was 13yrs old. Spanky is 2 and shows no signs of a problem other then what the vet could feel. He did ask us if spanky favored a leg or both at all. when spanky was a year old he hurt his bk leg which we had xrayed and there were no problems. a year later they xrayed it again told us it was fine. that was the old vet we did not like. So Now were wondering if anyone has ever had a baby with LP Grade 3 and not needed surgery till later. I have been reading up on it and read that if arthritic changes may take place and cause pain. I would relay like to no if any one has an older dog with LP Grade 3
thank you for takeing the time to read my awfull gramer.
Michelle
P.S we are realy Happy with this vet he is wounderfull. and very smart.

[Ladymom]

I would definitely get a second opinion from an orthopedic vet.

A vet who is a member of another forum I belong to just posted this last night:

"Medial patellar luxations are graded to assess severity.

Grade I: The kneecap can be moved out of place manually but will fall back into its natural position once the manipulator lets go.

Grade 2: Same thing except that the kneecap does not move back to its normal position when the manipulator lets go. These dogs are likely to progress to arthritis development and should be considered for surgery to prevent conformational damage. There is some controversy over whether grade 2 dogs should have surgery.

Grade 3: The patella is out of place all the time but can be manipulated back into its normal position manually (though it will not stay there).

Grade 4: The patella is not only out of place all the time but cannot even be manipulated back into place by hand. Such a dog has extreme difficulty extending his knees and walks with his knees bent virtually all the time.

It is not a good thing to have one's knee cap out of place; the entire weight-bearing stress of the rear leg is altered which, in time, leads to changes in the hips, long bones, and ultimately arthritis. How severe the changes are depends on how severe the luxation is (i.e., the grade as described above) and how long that degree of luxation has been going on. In time, the legs will actually turn inward, making the dog "knock-kneed." The luxation is not considered a painful condition but after enough time and conformational change, arthritis sets in, which is indeed painful.

Dogs with Grade I luxations do not require surgical repair.

Grade 2 dogs may benefit from surgery and most often the owner is called upon to judge how big a problem the lameness is.

Dogs with Grade 3 or 4 disease definitely should have surgery."

[Tae1107]

I have always been informed those with grade 3 & 4 patellas should have surgery to fix the problem....before too much of the knee cap is worn away. They also are at a higher risk for tearing their ACL's which is a more in depth surgery with a longer recovery period.

I learned this the hardway. I have a Yorkie with luxating patellas on both knees...I had one knee done and was waiting to have the other knee done. I was told of the risk of tearing his ACL and sure enough he did before I had the surgery.. he has had both knees done and is doing fine..

However I have also heard people say that they were told not to have surgery unless their were symptoms...

I agree with Ladymom and would go to an orthopedic surgeon..this is their speciality...

[Erin]

Sammy had the surgery in March and we are quite happy with the results. You should definitely go have a consult with the orthopedic specialist and have x-rays taken. I think that cost us about $100 for the consult. We had a good idea that Sam needed the surgery because of the way she walked, although she always jumped and stuff and never limped, she walked funny as she found ways to walk without bending her knees too much. Now she runs and jumps twice as far. She used to only be able to walk a few houses before getting tired and now she can keep up with her big brother!

[Cookie2]

Our vet that we have now let me know also that Cookie has both back legs but only one is worse than the other. She said its between a 2-3 and she did NOT recommend surgery only because of Cookie's small size. She said if it is causing him any pain and it does not pop back then we would have to reconsider this seriously and take him to a small breed animal hospital to have it done. Cookie's left back leg comes out of socket when he gets up from sitting for a while and as soon as he takes 2-3 steps he's fine.
For now I am going to wait. Cookie is 3 lbs even by the way.

Genie
Cookie,Lola,Angel & Lucky

P.S. our old vet NEVER mentioned that Cookie had this problem either!! he was a "Get in,get out and next type of Vet also!

[luvmyYorkieJack]

You are not the only one to get this "lovely" little surprise. We just found out that our 6 month old Jack has Grade 4 in his left leg and a grade 2-3 in his right. My vet told me that since it is not bothering him yet, that they will wait to do surgery. She said she can manipulate it in and out but I have never seen any signs that it bothers him. SHe told me that they will not do surgery for him until it really starts to bother him, arthritis sets or, or something else (I really don't remember everything she told me.) I plan to get him the surgery but in a few years. This may sound like a terrible decision but I would like to get another opinion but when we move out to the west coast (Washington) so we can have more of an option with who we see. Trust me, if it get worse or anything he will go in straight away.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by luvmyYorkieJack

You are not the only one to get this "lovely" little surprise. We just found out that our 6 month old Jack has Grade 4 in his left leg and a grade 2-3 in his right. My vet told me that since it is not bothering him yet, that they will wait to do surgery. She said she can manipulate it in and out but I have never seen any signs that it bothers him. SHe told me that they will not do surgery for him until it really starts to bother him, arthritis sets or, or something else (I really don't remember everything she told me.) I plan to get him the surgery but in a few years. This may sound like a terrible decision but I would like to get another opinion but when we move out to the west coast (Washington) so we can have more of an option with who we see. Trust me, if it get worse or anything he will go in straight away.

Please get a second opinion from an orthopedic surgeon. I've known too many people who postponed the surgery only to find out it was much more expensive because of the joint degeneration and it wasn't as successful.

[Gracie2006]

Was this diagnosed with x-rays done under anesthesia? They stress the knee joint to find out how much it luxates. Something to keep in mind, LP can cause pain even though the dog does not show it. Gracie had a grade 2 and grade 3. I chose to have them both fixed at once before they progressed to painful, debilitating arthritis. Grade 4 is as bad as it gets and by then the knee is completely dislocated. Grade 3 is serious business. Here is a link to info about the grades OFA: Patellar Luxation Grades

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Please get a second opinion from an orthopedic surgeon. I've known too many people who postponed the surgery only to find out it was much more expensive because of the joint degeneration and it wasn't as successful.

I agree. Sammy was almost 2 when she had her surgery and the surgeon said they prefer to do them early when they are still puppies (like 1-2 yrs old) because the recovery is easier and they bounce back more easily. You don't want to wait too long.

[luvmyYorkieJack]

Alright. Here's my concern. I had one vet that looked him over before his neuter and told me nothing was wrong. I had this one tell me that he has grade 4 and a 2-3. I'm not a vet or anything but I usually massage his knees (very softly) for him at night and I can't tell. I can't feel is knee cap at all coming out of place! She easily could tell (granted she is trained for it) but if it is as bad as she says it is shouldn't be easily recognizable to the owner? These two vets are in the same building together and are conflicting one another. I trust the gentleman more than I trust her. She was utterly rude to me when we first got Benji. The gentleman really seemed to know what he was talking about and gave me the run down on signs and symptoms and for what because Jack was/is a little bit now sneezing. There is a vet clinic in New Ulm where the vet there does all surgeries in the area for LP. I will try to set up an appointment with her. For the sake of Jack, I really hope the last vet really doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by luvmyYorkieJack

Alright. Here's my concern. I had one vet that looked him over before his neuter and told me nothing was wrong. I had this one tell me that he has grade 4 and a 2-3. I'm not a vet or anything but I usually massage his knees (very softly) for him at night and I can't tell. I can't feel is knee cap at all coming out of place! She easily could tell (granted she is trained for it) but if it is as bad as she says it is shouldn't be easily recognizable to the owner? These two vets are in the same building together and are conflicting one another. I trust the gentleman more than I trust her. She was utterly rude to me when we first got Benji. The gentleman really seemed to know what he was talking about and gave me the run down on signs and symptoms and for what because Jack was/is a little bit now sneezing. There is a vet clinic in New Ulm where the vet there does all surgeries in the area for LP. I will try to set up an appointment with her. For the sake of Jack, I really hope the last vet really doesn't know what she's talking about.

Just take him to an orthopedic surgeon for an evaluation. Then you'll know for sure.

[spanky's mom]

Originally Posted by Cookie2

Our vet that we have now let me know also that Cookie has both back legs but only one is worse than the other. She said its between a 2-3 and she did NOT recommend surgery only because of Cookie's small size. She said if it is causing him any pain and it does not pop back then we would have to reconsider this seriously and take him to a small breed animal hospital to have it done. Cookie's left back leg comes out of socket when he gets up from sitting for a while and as soon as he takes 2-3 steps he's fine.
For now I am going to wait. Cookie is 3 lbs even by the way.

Genie
Cookie,Lola,Angel & Lucky

P.S. our old vet NEVER mentioned that Cookie had this problem either!! he was a "Get in,get out and next type of Vet also!

Thanks for that i feel better now. spanky is just at 4lbs and not in any pain, But the vet said we should watch it and if need be we should have it done. thanks again you have no idea how it felt to hear your story.