I found the thread on Yorkie ear piercing...
 

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...light=piercing

So what's the difference?

It's interesting that some were appalled at the thought of ear piercing but are okay with the docking of tails...would like to get more views on this YT friends...but lets keep it as it is now..an ADULT discussion!;) would hate for this interesting thread to get silly and heated!

It's funny, before I got Bitsy, I thought that with some dogs, they were BORN with a nub of a tail and I thought it was so cute and I wanted a dog with a nubbie tail. Then when I started looking for a puppy, and in ads I saw "tails docked and dewclaws removed", I wondered what that meant.

I googled it and that was when I realized that it meant their tails are cutoff :eek: All these years, I thought they were born with the nub, like the Manx cat.

Call it what you will, it's mutilation plain and simple.

I also think as animal lovers, we need to advocate for those that can't advocate for themselves.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

So how do you all feel about removing dewclaws?

I'm also happy to see differing opinions being offered in a respectful manner. The one thing I find curious is that so many countries are outlawing tail docking but there is no uproar over circumcising little human boys. I have witnessed tail docking of puppies and the circumcision of my oldest son and I can tell you, without a doubt, circumcision is much more traumatic than a puppy getting its tail docked. :aimeeyork :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :)

I may be wrong I don't have kids (skin) but circumcision was done for religious reasons and then for hygenic reasons. I believe that circumcision is not as popular nowdays for the hygenic reasons..

All i can say on that matter is that both my Staffie and my yorkie have theirs with no problems...my staffies get worn down naturally and Pixie's i will trim now and again.

Yes, you are right about the reasoning behind circumcision and it is on the decline but in the U.S. the rate is still well above 60%. The hygiene argument has been shown to be false as kids can be taught proper hygiene but it is still being done on most kids. I would still ask, why such an uproar over tail docking and not circumcision? :aimeeyork :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :)

well rocky has a long tail.. and chippy has a short one..

and guess what..

they're both so cuteeeee!!

it's all a matter of preference.. i used to like long tails but once i saw the short little stubby ones wagging... i fell in love.. hahaha

Circumcision is done for religious reasons, so I really don't even want to touch that one!

No males in my family are circumcised (we're Buddhists), BUT, all the uncircumcised males I know said they wish they were circumcised (for asthetic reasons). That's food for thought :p

In regards to dewclaws.... I think certain breeds definitely DO need their dewclaws removed for their own safety, namely the digging breeds. My parents have a coon hound/beagle cross that loves to dig, and one time she nearly ripped her right dewclaw from snagging it when she was digging.

When I worked at a vet's office in GA a few years ago I saw several dogs come in that had ripped off their dew claws while playing, fighting, etc. That looks WAY more painful than having dew claws removed as a puppy. I am all for dew claw removal....but as I said before, I would do it with some sort of pain management.

A little bit of TMI in this post.....
 

My son, who just turned 1, was circumsized when he was super tiny. It was horrible to be there for. I actually had to leave the room (his dad stayed with him) when they brought out this little plastic baby shaped thing that had straps on it to hold him down. I started bawling and freaking out. My DH was very firm about wanting him circumsized (not for religious reasons though). I was for it because of hygenic reasons, but after seeing what he went through I would have never done it if DH had not been so firm. And DH is the man, with his own penis, so I went with it. My son was in MAJOR pain for quite a while after. Part of it healed onto some skin so on several occasions they had to rip the skin back....and yes, more pain and tears from us both. I too know several men who are not circumsized and all of them say they wish they were...and all of them said they would rather have had it done as babies when they wont remember it rather than have the choice when they are adults and have it done then.

I think this practice is cruel! The animal has no choice because some human
said this is the way this breed should be.
If that were so, God would not have given them a tail to begin with.

All are man made rules and regulations. The same as the original Yorkie
being bred down to AKC standards that they are today. Sure they
are a beautiful breed but not at all what it started out to be all because
some humans deceided this is what we should do and this is how they
should look:(

If Buddy had a tail when I bought him it would not have made any difference
to me. I love them both ways.

My last yorkie had a docked tail (she was born in 1993) My Pixie has her full tail and dew claws..totally natural as nature intended..I much prefer the way she looks..so expressive..she's a VERY confident little thing for a 3lb dog, it's always carried high over her back when seeing other dogs when out for a walk..sometimes i think she's a little TOO confident!:eek: Dogs communicate to each other with their tails as well as vocally.

* Bump* Am i allowed to do that? lol...just think this thread is so interesting..would like to see more views!;) :D

Glad you bumped, I was gonna if you didnt!!! Hehe. I think this thread is interesting too! ;)

HeHe...it's just that the threads move so fast on here...alot of members miss threads.;)

I just haven't heard of that many breeders butchering the tails. I've heard a lot more stories of botched ear cropping, but never hear anything about tails. I've never even heard of a dog dieing from a tail dock. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I've never heard of it. Docking the tail is extremely easy with the hardest part being docking it to the correct length for the breed. I just don't see how too many people could mess up a tail dock..it's just too easy to do it correctly. That's why so many breeders do it themselves instead of taking them to a vet...it's easy and quick. Ear cropping, however, must be done by a vet I believe... I'm sorry but I just won't ever get used to seeing yorkies with full tails...I just really like the docked look, and no one is going to change my mind. I just do not like the undocked tails...I'm sorry, but I don't....I really think it messes up the neat appearance of the yorkshire terrier. And most tails are so skinny...they can be broken very easily, and I believe tails getting broken happens much more often than tail docking gone wrong. I'd rather have a newborn puppy's tail docked when it barely feels it than for an adult's tail to be broken. Docking is just not at all cruel in my opinion...in fact, I think it saves the dog from hurting its tail later on in life.

If you look at the Advocates for Animals website i posted earlier in this thread it shows evidence of bad tail docking and the sad case of 11 puppies that died due to their tails being cut off with a Stanley Knife..even cases of people trying to dock Adult dogs tails!! these barbaric acts would not happen if Tail Docking were banned.

You say that tails should be docked to prevent injury later in life..most dogs go through life without tail injury..legs can be broken later in life too but we are not amputating them in case of injury..wild dogs, foxes, wolves are canine and go through life perfectly well with an intact tail.

Like I said, tail docking is so easy...for someone to mess it up so bad to kill 11 puppies would seriously take someone of lower mentality.. There are a few methods to dock tails, and I've seen two ways. I've seen the clamp (with hemostat) and twist method (not bloody at all), and I've seen the tail cut off and stitched (a little bloody but not bad at all). I just can't imagine how someone could mess that up so bad to kill a whole litter of dogs... So far as people docking adult dogs themselves, I'm pretty positive that is considered animal cruelty just like it would be cropping the ears yourself. With an adult, it becomes a surgical procedure, which requires a licensed vet to do it.

I saw a report about incidence of tails breaking and how it has gone up quite a bit since docking was outlawed...I remember reading it on a past thread on YT. The tail would break much easier than a leg and has a lot higher risk of getting caught in something, especially with the skinny tail of the Yorkie.

The tail is a very important indicator of the mood of the dog and is easily seen from some distance away Thus a dog with a tail is able to express its emotional state, assertion of social status,acceptance of a subordinate or equal position, or willingness to fight. It has been suggested that the absence of a tail may, in some instances, predispose a dog to unwarranted aggression.:animal36 :animal-pa

Just wanted to say though Myfairlacy..that i appreciate your opinions on this subject..and its nice too be able to discuss it in an adult way without it getting silly and heated...;)

There are many other things to look at...body position, ears, eyes, mouth. And the tail hasn't been completely removed..it is docked to a medium length so you can still see tail position on a docked yorkshire terrier.

LOL I'm stubborn... I just really prefer a docked tail and really do not believe it is cruel (I've seen many tail docks done with my own eyes). So I'm just not going to change my mind.

But I realize that members from countries where it has been made illegal are going to feel differently. That's fine with me. I just don't want my right infringed on since I live in a country where it is still allowed

Oh..I meant to say that I think it's just an "agree to disagree" subject. :)

Oh definately..it's always going to be a controversial subject!
Do you think it is likely to be banned in the US at some point? from what i can gather more and more people are turning against it now.

Maybe...I haven't heard of it trying to be passed yet though. I think there will be a big fight against it if it happens. Well, I'm sure there would be plenty of people for and against it. Docking seems to be generally accepted over here...I haven't really heard of people trying to get it outlawed

They are not always docked to a medium length either..alot of members on here have said their yorkies tails have been docked far too short..another example of breeders doing a bad job of it.:thumbdown

You are right...many vets and breeders dock them too short. Rylie doesn't have much of a tail at all...just a nub, and I really don't like the way it looks at all. I LOVE Lacy's tail though, and the tails in the show ring. I don't see too many tails cut completely off like a rottie would have...but most are docked slightly shorter than you'd see in the show ring. Like I said, getting the correct length is the hardest part about docking tails