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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Liver Shunt/MVD (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/98600-liver-shunt-mvd.html)

albister 10-17-2007 10:06 AM
Liver Shunt/MVD
 
Hello everyone, Does anyone here have any experience or info on LS/MVD?

Ellie May 10-17-2007 10:13 AM
What would you like to know about it? There are a few people on here that could probably help you. Have you looked at the University of Tennessee website? Dr. Tobias from UT is the leader in this and they have an LS page on their site.

Ellie May 10-17-2007 10:15 AM
Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that my Yorkie has possible, but very mild, MVD but we are not going any further with testing, so we will never know for sure.

Sharonandtink 10-17-2007 10:31 AM
My 4 week old puppy just passed away from a posible liver shunt on Monday. What would you like to know about it? There is a surgery to correct it if it is not the really serious type. Let me know what you want to know.

albister 10-17-2007 10:45 AM
Yes, I have look into her site. I have spoke to alot of people about my furbaby (she may have possible LS/MVD). I just wanted to get more info, so I can get more educated =) Im trying to get any info from different people and forums. Cuz everyone has different opinions and experiences.

Basically, my furbaby was diagnosed w/possible LS/MVD on 9/27. She is going to get another BAT done in 2 wks. I just wanted to know what other test I should be getting for her? The other group I am w/now is a great help as well =) but I just wanted to get other opinion from diff forum group.

Also my furbaby SHEDS alot :sickie: is there something I can do. She also has dry skin.

Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated :D

albister 10-17-2007 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 1440981)
Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that my Yorkie has possible, but very mild, MVD but we are not going any further with testing, so we will never know for sure.
so how did u find out about MVD on ur furbaby, what testings were done? also, if u dont mind me askin how come u didnt proceed w/further testings?:animal-pa

Ellie May 10-17-2007 10:52 AM
How old is your dog? If she is not a puppy, she shouldn't be shedding.
What were her BAT levels?
Did they do a blood panel? If so, what are the results?
What meds or supplements has the vet put her on?
Is she on a low protein diet?
What are her symptoms?

If the levels aren't back to normal the next step would be a possible doppler ultrasound but it takes an expert to read this and sometimes is a waste of money. You could also have a Scintography or Portogram done. You could also try the Protein C blood test. She may also need a liver biopsy. Usually Yorkies get extrahepatic shunts which are operable in most cases.

Have you joined the yahoo liver shunt/mvd group?

albister 10-17-2007 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharonandtink (Post 1441031)
My 4 week old puppy just passed away from a posible liver shunt on Monday. What would you like to know about it? There is a surgery to correct it if it is not the really serious type. Let me know what you want to know.
OM.. i am soo sorry to hear that, my prayers go out to u and ur pup. was this pup from one of ur litter? how was the pup diagnosed? also did the pup have any smptoms at all? i just wated to get other peoples experience and infos on it.

Ellie May 10-17-2007 11:00 AM
I was told by a few people that I should get her BATs tested because she had a UTI this summer that wouldn't go away. She also went into shock after her last vaccines. Lamb in dog food seems to not agree with her and dogs with ls or mvd don't usually tolerate it well. She is also very skinny but loves to eat. It is interesting that she loves to eat because usually they don't like to eat with liver disease. She has had two blood panels and we did the BATs twice. The BATs the first time were pre:4.1 and post: 47. This time, after a month of low protein diet, denosyl and vitamin e, they are pre: 8 or 10 and post: 15.8. The supplementation and diet appears to be working (which isn't exactly consistent with mvd so it is a mystery), so right now there is no need to do further testing. It is a lot of money to spend for a specialist to tell me to give her denosyl and not too much protein when I already know that. It is also a lot of emotional stress, so Ellie's vet and I decided that we wouldn't go further with the testing right now. If I was at all concerned, I would definately do it.

albister 10-17-2007 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 1441097)
How old is your dog? LIL OVER 5 MNTHS If she is not a puppy, she shouldn't be shedding. YES, THATS WHAT I THOUGHT =( WHAT SHOULD I DO?What were her BAT levels? 95.4
Did they do a blood panel? NO, THEY ONLY DID CBC If so, what are the results?
What meds or supplements has the vet put her on? I PUT HER ON HEPATOSUPPORT, VETRI DMG, AND DERMCAPSIs she on a low protein diet? YES, SHE IS ON VEGE DIET NOW
What are her symptoms? SHE DOESNT HAVE ANY SYMPTOMS AT ALL..
If the levels aren't back to normal the next step would be a possible doppler ultrasound but it takes an expert to read this and sometimes is a waste of money. You could also have a Scintography or Portogram done. You could also try the Protein C blood test. She may also need a liver biopsy. Usually Yorkies get extrahepatic shunts which are operable in most cases.

Have you joined the yahoo liver shunt/mvd group?
YES =) VERY HELPFUL :D

SINCE I AM A NEWBIE ON YT, I THOUGHT MAYBE DIFFERENT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DIFF ADVISE :)

Thank u..

ps what should i do w/her shedding.. she sheds ALOT.. its constant...

TLC 10-17-2007 11:18 AM
She may be shedding her puppy coat. Also, since they have hair like us humans, I know that there are certain times of the year that my own hair sheds in clumps. So, I don't know if this has anything to do her liver or not.

I have 2 Yorkies that have abnormal BAT as well. You've gotten great advice here and if you haven't already joined the yahoo group - that's a great place too!

albister 10-17-2007 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 1441120)
I was told by a few people that I should get her BATs tested because she had a UTI this summer that wouldn't go away. She also went into shock after her last vaccines. Lamb in dog food seems to not agree with her and dogs with ls or mvd don't usually tolerate it well. She is also very skinny but loves to eat. It is interesting that she loves to eat because usually they don't like to eat with liver disease. She has had two blood panels and we did the BATs twice. The BATs the first time were pre:4.1 and post: 47. This time, after a month of low protein diet, denosyl and vitamin e, they are pre: 8 or 10 and post: 15.8. The supplementation and diet appears to be working (which isn't exactly consistent with mvd so it is a mystery), so right now there is no need to do further testing. It is a lot of money to spend for a specialist to tell me to give her denosyl and not too much protein when I already know that. It is also a lot of emotional stress, so Ellie's vet and I decided that we wouldn't go further with the testing right now. If I was at all concerned, I would definately do it.
ic.. thank u fro ur info.. :D

Ellie May 10-17-2007 11:22 AM
I have no idea how to control shedding. That was so long ago for us and Ellie didn't shed much.

If Ellie's numbers were 95, I wouldn't have waited to retest the BATS. I would have gone straight to something like Scintography or ateast a Protein C test. That is way too high. Of course I'm not a vet though.

albister 10-17-2007 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 1441158)
She may be shedding her puppy coat. Also, since they have hair like us humans, I know that there are certain times of the year that my own hair sheds in clumps. So, I don't know if this has anything to do her liver or not.

I have 2 Yorkies that have abnormal BAT as well. You've gotten great advice here and if you haven't already joined the yahoo group - that's a great place too!
i was getting concern about her shedding cuz i also have 2 other yorkies and they DID NOT shed like her. its worse then Jack Russels, i mean they shed alot too :) besides her shedding and high BAT, she is a perfect pup. i mean i just put clothes on her :D even w/that she still sheds.. i have hair all over :(

what were ur BAT #'s? both of ur yorkies have abnormal BAT's? do they have LS/MVD? i am also joined w/yahoo group. :D very nice group and has alot of good infos.. :aimeeyork

thank u

albister 10-17-2007 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 1441174)
I have no idea how to control shedding. That was so long ago for us and Ellie didn't shed much.

If Ellie's numbers were 95, I wouldn't have waited to retest the BATS. I would have gone straight to something like Scintography or ateast a Protein C test. That is way too high. Of course I'm not a vet though.
yea, but the group had advised me to wait since she was on alot of antibiotics (she had kennel cough, non stop). so yahoo group had said wait til it clears out from her body.

so u just control it w/low protein diet?

TLC 10-17-2007 11:38 AM
In August I did the BAT for both of them:

Roxy
Pre = 43 and Post 100.9

TJ
Pre = 5 and Post = 43

In Sept. I did a full blood panel on Roxy along with clotting times and urine analysis. We also did an ultrasound. Everything was normal and the u/s showed a normal sized and shape liver.

In Oct. I retested both for CBC and BAT. Both their CBC was normal
Retest BAT were:

Roxy
Pre = 10 and Post = 64

TJ
Pre = 67 and Post = 21.5

At this point, they show NO symptoms of any kind. They are eating a special homemade diet. They get supplements: Hepatosupport, Vetri DMG, Vitamin E, Fish Oil and Egg Shells for Calcium - daily.

I will retest the BAT is 3 months. I do not plan on doing any further testing...unless the BAT go above and beyond.

Ellie May 10-17-2007 11:39 AM
ooooooooooooh. She was on antibiotics. I didn't know that. Yes, that could skew the results. I may have considered waiting also then. What food are you feeding?

Sharonandtink 10-17-2007 11:41 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by albister (Post 1441114)
OM.. i am soo sorry to hear that, my prayers go out to u and ur pup. was this pup from one of ur litter? how was the pup diagnosed? also did the pup have any smptoms at all? i just wated to get other peoples experience and infos on it.
Yes, he was from my litter. Yoda was having problems latching on and eating so he was not growing like the other puppies. He would always latch on and then fall asleep. He was my little narcileptic puppy. Even after feeding him every 2 hours he was still not gaining any weight. So I brought him to the vet and she kept him with her for a little over a week, feeding him every 2 hours and seeing all the doctors that she could. They did ultrasounds and messed with medication. He was too small to have the diagnosis be tested so we were just happy that the medication was stimulating his appeite and he was doing a ton better. We knew that it was a short term thing, but at least he had a great time until it was time to go.

I will be praying for your little guy. Please keep us posted.

Patti 10-17-2007 11:46 AM
My Cali has very mild MVD diagnosed confirmed by a liver biopsy. SHe requires no treatment but is a very laid back dog and has health issues a lot. I am starting her on a holistic regiment of supplements to see if we can get her inbetter health. Good luck

albister 10-17-2007 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 1441245)
In August I did the BAT for both of them:

Roxy
Pre = 43 and Post 100.9

TJ
Pre = 5 and Post = 43

In Sept. I did a full blood panel on Roxy along with clotting times and urine analysis. We also did an ultrasound. Everything was normal and the u/s showed a normal sized and shape liver.

In Oct. I retested both for CBC and BAT. Both their CBC was normal
Retest BAT were:

Roxy
Pre = 10 and Post = 64

TJ
Pre = 67 and Post = 21.5

At this point, they show NO symptoms of any kind. They are eating a special homemade diet. They get supplements: Hepatosupport, Vetri DMG, Vitamin E, Fish Oil and Egg Shells for Calcium - daily.

I will retest the BAT is 3 months. I do not plan on doing any further testing...unless the BAT go above and beyond.
o.. its the same supps iam giving :D i feel like i am going in the right track :thumbup:

albister 10-17-2007 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 1441251)
ooooooooooooh. She was on antibiotics. I didn't know that. Yes, that could skew the results. I may have considered waiting also then. What food are you feeding?
yes, she was on 3 or 4 different types of anti. she the anti will skrew the results up?? i hope thats what it is (anti) she is getting, just switched, to Natural Bal Vege diet, low protein. is this what u would reccomend?

Yorkieluv 10-17-2007 12:06 PM
Yes, it's possible that antibiotics, vaccinations, flea preventative, heartworm preventative, and any kind of stress to the liver can skew the results. I would wait until everything is out of her system and redo the BATs, so that you're more sure to get an accurate result.

albister 10-17-2007 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharonandtink (Post 1441257)
Yes, he was from my litter. Yoda was having problems latching on and eating so he was not growing like the other puppies. He would always latch on and then fall asleep. He was my little narcileptic puppy. Even after feeding him every 2 hours he was still not gaining any weight. So I brought him to the vet and she kept him with her for a little over a week, feeding him every 2 hours and seeing all the doctors that she could. They did ultrasounds and messed with medication. He was too small to have the diagnosis be tested so we were just happy that the medication was stimulating his appeite and he was doing a ton better. We knew that it was a short term thing, but at least he had a great time until it was time to go.

I will be praying for your little guy. Please keep us posted.
aww.. preciuos pic:animal-pa i am soo sorry for that again. thank u for ur prayer on my furbaby :D

albister 10-17-2007 12:09 PM
patti- thank u for ur concern.

albister 10-17-2007 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkieluv (Post 1441343)
Yes, it's possible that antibiotics, vaccinations, flea preventative, heartworm preventative, and any kind of stress to the liver can skew the results. I would wait until everything is out of her system and redo the BATs, so that you're more sure to get an accurate result.
do u think 30 days is long enough to wait? should i wait longer? is supp ok for the liver? will the supps effect the BAT at all?

giving: hepatosupport,vetri DMG, and dermcaps

any advise? :D

TLC 10-17-2007 12:34 PM
The supplements are very good for the liver.

I am not sure if 1 month is long enough. What does your Vet say?

Also, don't give Heartworm or Tick/Flea meds at least 2 or 3 weeks before the BAT.

I held off on Frontline for the entire month. And I waited until after the BAT to give the heartworm.

Yorkieluv 10-17-2007 12:45 PM
30 days is probably fine :) Those supplements that you mentioned shouldn't skew the results, they are good for the liver if in fact she is liver compromised.

albister 10-17-2007 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 1441403)
The supplements are very good for the liver.

I am not sure if 1 month is long enough. What does your Vet say?

Also, don't give Heartworm or Tick/Flea meds at least 2 or 3 weeks before the BAT.

I held off on Frontline for the entire month. And I waited until after the BAT to give the heartworm.
my vet hasnt seen her yet.. she was bought from a pet store, so i have been going to their vet:( but since i thought the vet didnt know what they were doing-also didnt like the fact that it was related to the pet store-i decided to get a second opinion from a vet that had more knowledge. i spoke to my vet and it sounded like she had some knowledge, so i decided to take her there:) she did not advise me if i should wait or not:rolleyes:

she hasnt gotten any heartworm or tick meds.

she also hasnt gotten all the pup shots, nor rabies:(

what u think??

albister 10-17-2007 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkieluv (Post 1441433)
30 days is probably fine :) Those supplements that you mentioned shouldn't skew the results, they are good for the liver if in fact she is liver compromised.
ok.. :cool:

any advise on the previous post, the one i just posted??

TLC 10-17-2007 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by albister (Post 1441473)
my vet hasnt seen her yet.. she was bought from a pet store, so i have been going to their vet:( but since i thought the vet didnt know what they were doing-also didnt like the fact that it was related to the pet store-i decided to get a second opinion from a vet that had more knowledge. i spoke to my vet and it sounded like she had some knowledge, so i decided to take her there:) she did not advise me if i should wait or not:rolleyes:

she hasnt gotten any heartworm or tick meds.

she also hasnt gotten all the pup shots, nor rabies:(

what u think??

So, who did the BAT? The Petstore Vet or Your Vet? Has Your Vet actually seen the pup yet?


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