IVDD, Meningitis, or Neoplasia please share experiences

[LBH]

Can anyone share experiences they've had with IVDD, meningitis or neoplasia/tumor in their Yorkies? I posted this topic days ago but have had no responses and we're desperate for any help or similar experiences. If anyone can share regarding slipped disc/herniated disc in neck or the above topics I'd be so grateful, as Moose's health depends on which of these he is suffering from. Neurologist has advised great risk with CT/MRI/spinal tap because of his size and age (5lbs, 9 years) so we are hesitant to do this unless 100% necessary. Please share if you've experienced this. I will re-post our exact experience if anyone can respond and share.

[Rachael1983]

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[ladyjane]

That's a pretty broad range of things. I don't know why his size would make diagnostics a huge risk. These tests are done on 5 lb pups all of the time and 9 years isn't really that old.
What are his symptoms and what does the neuro think it might be?

[ladyjane]

OK...I just read your previous thread. Seems that neuro tends to think it is a cervical disc issue, but could also be AAI ... Personally, I would definitely be having an MRI done based on his symptoms. Either one of the above could cause sudden paralysis and/or death. There was a pup here on YT who suddenly shrieked one day and died from AAI. I had a yorkie years ago with two cervical disc herniations. He was unable to stand up prior to the surgery....fortunately he did very well after the surgery as it was paresis (weakness), not paralysis. He was older...probably 10 or 11 at the time of the surgery.

There are different types of encephalitis and/or meningitis in yorkies ... that would be ruled out by the spinal tap. I don't think your neuro thinks that is the issue, but he cannot rule it out without tests.

They have to give you all of the risks.....I doubt this is high risk as it sounds like he is a healthy pup based on what you said on the other thread; but, you can ask him HOW high risk it is. IF he does have AAI make sure whoever you use has a lot of experience with that surgery. It is a fairly high risk surgery.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Rachael1983

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[LBH]

Thanks so much for your reply Ladyjane I really appreciate you sharing, what you said about AAI definitely has me worried. It seems so difficult to differentiate between that and disc/nerve- and sounds like a CT is the only way. I of course would've went ahead with the CT immediately had the neuro doc not insisted on waiting due to the risks.

How did you first realize something was wrong with your Yorkie with disc herniations? Was it sudden or quick? And was he unable to stand from the onset or it progressively got worse and led to surgery?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by LBH

Thanks so much for your reply Ladyjane I really appreciate you sharing, what you said about AAI definitely has me worried. It seems so difficult to differentiate between that and disc/nerve- and sounds like a CT is the only way. I of course would've went ahead with the CT immediately had the neuro doc not insisted on waiting due to the risks.

How did you first realize something was wrong with your Yorkie with disc herniations? Was it sudden or quick? And was he unable to stand from the onset or it progressively got worse and led to surgery?

Sometimes AAI shows on a regular xray...sometimes not.

My yorkie had gradual onset. He had literally walked off a bed. He was walking along the side of the bed and just dropped. I picked him up and checked him from head to toe and he seemed fine. We were traveling at the time and staying in a hotel. About a week later I noticed that he was slipping on my tile floor in my kitchen ... just his right foot. I thought it was because he might have some hair in between his pads and trimmed it; but it continued. I really didn't think of anything serious at the time. Another week or so went by and he suddenly went down one day. His front feet were turned inward and he was unable to stand up. I was not living in TX at the time..I was again traveling and was down here. I rushed to the vet and she called a specialist...I went there and the vet totally misdiagnosed him telling me it was his shoulders and knees and that it was his age. I asked him didn't he think it was neurological and he said no. I left there and called the vet who had referred me. I had used her for about a year whenever I was down here. I asked her to xray his legs and nothing showed. She agreed that it looked neurological and sent me to Texas A&M. Thank goodness we got him there that night...and they immediately told me that it was herniated discs. They could tell without the MRI but that they would do one in the morning and immediately after do the surgery. It was my only choice...that or let him go. It happened so fast I didn't have much time to think! Maxwell had a rough time with recovery because he had collapsed trachea...but the surgery on his cervical spine went very well. He lived for 2 years after that and died basically of old age related issues.

[ladyjane]

What I got from the neuro report is they are recommending medical management for one week and see if there is improvement?? What meds did he put Moose on? Is he showing any signs of improvement? Are you keeping him in a crate? He needs to be very still!

[LBH]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

What I got from the neuro report is they are recommending medical management for one week and see if there is improvement?? What meds did he put Moose on? Is he showing any signs of improvement? Are you keeping him in a crate? He needs to be very still!

From the Neuro report:
Summary & Recommendations. Moose’s signs are most consistent with an issue affecting his neck. The most likely issue is an intervertebral disc herniation, but other possibilities include atlantoaxial subluxation, meningitis, or less likely neoplasia or discospondylitis. Although less likely we are unable to rule out an atypical partial seizure. In the event of a disc herniation, surgery is typically very successful in resolving the issue. Some dogs with disc problems can spontaneously resolve with medical management but start to show improvement in comfort and/or gait within a week.
After discussion conservative management has been elected including strict rest, Metacam, diazepam and gabapentin. If Moose remains uncomfortable or has worsening discomfort or difficulty walking further diagnostics (MRI +/- spinal tap) will be performed to determine if surgery is needed. Strict rest for two weeks is required for at least the next 2 weeks, at which time a re-check examination will determine the next step in Moose’s treatment and management. Keep Moose on a chest harness when walking him outside during this period. He should go outside 3-5 times a day to go to the bathroom.

Medications:
Diazepam 2mg tablets: Give ¼ tablet by mouth every 8-12 hours.
Gabapentin 50mg/ml: Give 0.3 ml by mouth every 8 hours.
Metacam 1.5mg/ml: Give 0.14ml by mouth once a day until gone.


He has improved since Monday. No more violent episodes like the one Monday, only 3-4 times did he jump up and slightly shriek. Did not look confused or disoriented after. He didn't advise crate rest yet, but that he is next to us at all times still and not walking around at all. We tote him to his food bowl and to potty. He isn't his normal self of course so it's hard to "scale" his improvement and whether it's enough to continue with rest?

I'm so very confused as to what he has

[ladyjane]

Strict rest usually is crate rest....but, if you are keeping him still that is fine. Just do not let him walk around by himself at all! It is typical to use those meds and rest for two weeks and see if there is improvement.
You really won't know what it is right now. If he improves it is most likely IVDD. If he doesn't...or if he gets worse, then you will need to do the MRI and spinal tap in order to know what it is. If it comes to that I would definitely do the spinal tap at the same time because some things such as meningitis only show with that. You would not want to have to go back and do it another time.
Hopefully Moose will be fine on the meds and rest! It sounds like it may be going that way!

[LBH]

Thanks so much for your replies, other's experiences really help especially in making decisions to give Moose the best help. I will post again after speaking with his Neuro doc next, thank you Ladyjane!

And I still welcome anyone else to share as well, all experience is greatly appreciated. Thank you YorkieTalk

[RiosMom]

Originally Posted by LBH

Thanks so much for your replies, other's experiences really help especially in making decisions to give Moose the best help. I will post again after speaking with his Neuro doc next, thank you Ladyjane!

And I still welcome anyone else to share as well, all experience is greatly appreciated. Thank you YorkieTalk

Hi there! I know it has been a while, but I was wanting to see what happened to Moose. Did you all ever figure out what was wrong and did he recover? I have a 10 month old puppy that we suspect has IVDD, but are not sure since he has not yet had an MRI. Our Neuro vets around here are all booked up until October, so he is on rest and medicine.