Need help!!! Both Yorkies sick with possible parasites

[KatysMom]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Yes it is, but there is also the rinse I use from the same manufacturer. Don’t know where I got it though. I use the rinse to clean paws between baths. It smells so good too!

I see this on Chewy.com, Zymox Veterinary Strength Enzymatic ... Rinse

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by PILOTthePuppy

Thank you for this information! I was doing research last night and read that Chlorhexidine can help with possible skin infections and/or allergies. There's shampoo and wipes made by Douxo, I was going to give this a try and see if it helps any. Have you heard anything regarding this?

Duoxo is one of the main shampoos sold by Vet Derms - but I always get mine wayyyy cheaper on Amazon. I've tried wipes before, but they've never done anything appreciable toward allergy response for me. Allergens are microscopic - so a wipe can only do so much. They *can* help a bit with getting some allergens/irritants OFF of the paw area - but keep in mind their main allergy exposure is breathing - so it may not do a whole lot.

Allergies are just a pain! Sooooo common in yorkies.

Allergy info: https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/di...tart-here.html

[PILOTthePuppy]

Sorry for the lack of updates. Pax's biopsy result came back on Friday.

Here is the report:

Lesions in the specimen from the small intestine are compatible with the clinical syndrome of inflammatory bowel
disease. Lacteal dilation is slight and may be secondary to inflammation. Definitive interpretation of true idiopathic IBD
requires exclusion of recognized parasitic, allergic, and/or infectious causes of intestinal inflammation.

The internal medicine vet would like to treat for IBD and start him on prednisone (steriod) and cyclosporine (immunosuppressive) drugs.

However, Pax has not had diarrhea or vomiting in over 10 days. He is still taking metronidazole, but was having diarrhea issues even while taking it several weeks ago.

I declined to start him on the medications due the fact he's eating normally and not having vomiting or diarrhea anymore.

I honestly do not think this is IBD and do not want to start him on any steriods or immunosuppressive drugs right now. These drugs are quite serious in my opinion.

Pilot has been doing ok, no diarrhea or vomitting since stopping the antibiotics 2 weeks ago. However, he will no longer eat his normal food on his own. We did feed him bland food for a few weeks and he would eat that right away. Now he just stares at his normal food and will eat some if I feed him by hand.

I am so stressed out over this whole ordeal, it's starting to affect my health to a small degree.

[KatysMom]

Hi PILOTthePuppy,

It's hard not to be stressed--you guys have been through so much. I hope you are giving yourself credit for the all the good you have done. You are my hero!

Read the biopsy report several times. That last sentence that stuck with me, "Definitive interpretation of true idiopathic IBD requires exclusion of recognized parasitic, allergic, and/or infectious causes of intestinal inflammation."

Did you interpret as I did -- biopsy was not definitive, thus a need to exclude "parasitic, allergic, and/or infectious causes."

Is your "bland diet" still the chicken and mashed? Have you tried to re-introduce the salmon?

[PILOTthePuppy]

Originally Posted by KatysMom

Hi PILOTthePuppy,

It's hard not to be stressed--you guys have been through so much. I hope you are giving yourself credit for the all the good you have done. You are my hero!

Read the biopsy report several times. That last sentence that stuck with me, "Definitive interpretation of true idiopathic IBD requires exclusion of recognized parasitic, allergic, and/or infectious causes of intestinal inflammation."

Did you interpret as I did -- biopsy was not definitive, thus a need to exclude "parasitic, allergic, and/or infectious causes."

Is your "bland diet" still the chicken and mashed? Have you tried to re-introduce the salmon?

KatysMom, that sentence stuck with me as well.

I'm not sure why the internal medicine vet wants to jump straight to steroids if he's been asymptomatic for the 10 days.

The boys were eating chicken and mash for several weeks. We then added peas and carrots, then green beans and now today I cooked their normal diet.

Their normal food consists of chicken, white rice, and pureed veggies (boiled kale, peas, carrots, zucchni, and lima beans).

One thing I noticed, Pilot didn't like the food as much when I added his supplements to then bland food (calcium, etc.).

We do add the calcium to his normal diet as it's necessary to balance out the phosphorus from the meat.

I'm really nervous that he may be sick, even though he doesn't have diarrhea or vomiting.

He usually ate his normal food with no issues in the past.

Perhaps, the chicken and mash diet made him a little picky?

[KatysMom]

HI PILOTthePuppy,

Thank you for responding.

My late little one could be picky about a change in diet.

Still curious if you have tried to reintroduce the salmon.

Pilot had the calcium oxolate stone surgery. What were the symptoms of that condition?

[PILOTthePuppy]

Originally Posted by KatysMom

HI PILOTthePuppy,

Thank you for responding.

My late little one could be picky about a change in diet.

Still curious if you have tried to reintroduce the salmon.

Pilot had the calcium oxolate stone surgery. What were the symptoms of that condition?

We did not introduce any fish yet, wanted to make sure they were stable with no more diarrhea.

When Pilot had a calcium oxolate stone, he was peeing drops of blood very frequently.

The vet said he had to be on prescription food for the rest of his life due to the high potential reoccurence rate.

That's when I did research and found the home cooked diet we've been feeding since late 2013.

Thank you for the support and and your responses as well.

[KatysMom]

Any chance Pilot isn't just lovin' the hand feeding?

[PILOTthePuppy]

Originally Posted by KatysMom

Any chance Pilot isn't just lovin' the hand feeding?

I guess that’s always possible, but he’s never been like that.

Pax would not eat the normal cooked diet this morning. However, he did eat it twice for lunch and dinner yesterday.

I offered him the chicken, mash potatoes, peas, and carrots. He ate it immediately with no hesitation.

I wonder if the boys don’t like the original food anymore? Almost like if you get sick from something you don’t want it eat anymore. The only differences are kale and lima beans.

Both of them had normal bowel movements this morning.

Does it sound like they are being picky versus being sick like they were before?? I hope it’s not a relapse.

I didn’t get much sleep because I’m so nervous they won’t eat or have issues like diarrhea.

[KatysMom]

Hi PILOTthePuppy,

Happy Memorial Day.

Thank you for the update. Hoping you don't have to work today, and pray you can take a nice long nap.

*Believe you feed them three times a day, correct? Ordinarily, as she had been drinking water, and was otherwise asymptomatic, I would not be concerned if my little one passed over a meal or two. Especially if I had changed her food, if my otherwise healthy little one didn't eat (or eat well) over a two day period, I would contact the vet. Your mileage may vary.

*Is the paw licking still in high gear?

*I keep bringing up the salmon because (a) it is something you have fed in the past, and (b) in part because Wylie's Mom posted earlier that "chicken IS the most common protein allergy in dogs who do have food allergies."

*When did each of them have their last (second) dose of Drontal Plus? Did the vet provide a date when their next dose would be due? I'm assuming it is sometime in early June.

While it may not be the case, I have formed a picture of your two little ones, posed at their doggy dishes, looking up at you with that, "What you pullin' over on me" look in their eyes.

Sending you hugs!

[PILOTthePuppy]

Originally Posted by KatysMom

Hi PILOTthePuppy,

Happy Memorial Day.

Thank you for the update. Hoping you don't have to work today, and pray you can take a nice long nap.

*Believe you feed them three times a day, correct? Ordinarily, as she had been drinking water, and was otherwise asymptomatic, I would not be concerned if my little one passed over a meal or two. Especially if I had changed her food, if my otherwise healthy little one didn't eat (or eat well) over a two day period, I would contact the vet. Your mileage may vary.

*Is the paw licking still in high gear?

*I keep bringing up the salmon because (a) it is something you have fed in the past, and (b) in part because Wylie's Mom posted earlier that "chicken IS the most common protein allergy in dogs who do have food allergies."

*When did each of them have their last (second) dose of Drontal Plus? Did the vet provide a date when their next dose would be due? I'm assuming it is sometime in early June.

While it may not be the case, I have formed a picture of your two little ones, posed at their doggy dishes, looking up at you with that, "What you pullin' over on me" look in their eyes.

Sending you hugs!

Happy Memorial Day KatysMom! Thanks for the replies and support! I am indeed off today and am very fortunate to have a successful career in IT.

Yes, we do feed them several times a day. They haven't skipped any meals lately **knock on wood**, but some have been a struggle.

I went to grocery store this afternoon and picked up chicken and frozen veggies. I boiled the veggies and made lunch consisting of fat free chicken breast, baked mashed potatos, pureed peas, carrots, green beans, and summer squash. I also added the probiotics, calcium, and some vitamin b complex to their food.

Pax was hesitant and did not want to eat a first but did eventually eat after a few minutes. Pilot also ate the food his own.

As far as the fish is concerned, I plan on adding it back eventually but we only fed small amounts. We do not feed it as the main protein source. White fish can be high in mercury and salmon is a fatty fish, even though it's mainly.

The main reason we feed chicken breast is due to the very low fat content. I do not know what other proteins we can feed them. Pax is also allergic to beef, he use to throw up immediately when he was younger after eating it.

I do not want to aggravate Pax's pancreas/digestive system with the fatty fish until I'm confident he's back to "normal".

Pax is still licking his paws, but he's been doing that for a long time. I think it's part allergies and part soothing/ocd for him.

We gave Pax and Pilot 3 doses of Drontal Plus in the last 6 weeks, 2 weeks apart. I don't have plans to give them anymore doses at the moment, but they are due for their heartworm medication at the beginning of June which has the ingredients to kill hookworms in addition to the heartworm.

I'm battling constant anxiety over whether or not they will even eat their next meal. I do not know if I'm fighting pickiness at the moment or the possible disease/illnesses.

As I stated before, Pax and Pilot's stools have been normal for the last 2 weeks.

Thank you again for the support and caring feedback.

[KatysMom]

Hi PILOTthePuppy,

Originally Posted by PILOTthePuppy

I went to grocery store this afternoon and picked up chicken and frozen veggies. I boiled the veggies and made lunch consisting of fat free chicken breast, baked mashed potatos, pureed peas, carrots, green beans, and summer squash. I also added the probiotics, calcium, and some vitamin b complex to their food....Pax was hesitant and did not want to eat a first but did eventually eat after a few minutes. Pilot also ate the food his own....I'm battling constant anxiety over whether or not they will even eat their next meal. I do not know if I'm fighting pickiness at the moment or the possible disease/illnesses.

So glad to hear both of them ate the meals you work so hard to prepare for them.

You all have certainly rounded _a_ corner. Once you've had a real scare (and you have), it takes a while to figure out what normal or a new normal looks and feels like.

If they stay asymptomatic for a while longer, will you take Pax back to one of the vets for some kind of update?

You are doing an impressive job with their nutrition. I hope _you_ can get some relief from the anxiety over ever meal and possibly every BM.

[PILOTthePuppy]

Originally Posted by KatysMom

Hi PILOTthePuppy,



So glad to hear both of them ate the meals you work so hard to prepare for them.

You all have certainly rounded _a_ corner. Once you've had a real scare (and you have), it takes a while to figure out what normal or a new normal looks and feels like.

If they stay asymptomatic for a while longer, will you take Pax back to one of the vets for some kind of update?

You are doing an impressive job with their nutrition. I hope _you_ can get some relief from the anxiety over ever meal and possibly every BM.

Yes, I want to follow-up with the vets. I really still think there is something infectious and not IBD since both boys had the same type of liquid diarrhea at one point.

I really want more answers but the vets are quick to medicate the symptoms.

Also, the boys also ate their dinner tonight, they ate the food I cooked earlier this afternoon.

[KatysMom]

Originally Posted by PILOTthePuppy

Yes, I want to follow-up with the vets. I really still think there is something infectious and not IBD since both boys had the same type of liquid diarrhea at one point....Also, the boys also ate their dinner tonight, they ate the food I cooked earlier this afternoon.

Hi,

Thank you for responding. There are many positive signs.

I'm not a vet, but would having a vet tech take their temperatures rule out a persistent infection in the short term?

[PILOTthePuppy]

Originally Posted by KatysMom

Hi,

Thank you for responding. There are many positive signs.

I'm not a vet, but would having a vet tech take their temperatures rule out a persistent infection in the short term?

Hi KatysMom, unfortunately Pax has not had a temperature every time we've taken him to the vet.

I went back and looked at previous bloodwork for the boys and found that they both have elevated white blood cell count, which could possibly indicate an infection of some sort they have been fighting.

I'm taking this information to the vet tomorrow.

Pax

WBC Reference Range: 5.7 - 16.3 K/uL

2/1/17: 8.5
2/17/18: 10.2
4/25/18: 11.1 (diarrhea and vomiting)

Pax's Absolute Eosinophils is markedly increased

Absolute Eosinophils Reference Range: 100 - 1250 /uL

2/1/17: 366
2/17/18: 734
4/25/18: 1587 (diarrhea and vomiting)

I found this PDF:

https://www.idexx.eu/globalassets/do...ve-summary.pdf

Description: Eosinophils are white blood cells that are specialized to combat parasites and other infectious diseases. They are
also involved in allergic responses.

Increased Eosinophils

Common Causes
Parasitic infections: ectoparasites and endoparasites

Allergic/Hypersensitivity responses
Asthma
Eosinophilic granuloma complex
Allergic dermatitis/atopy
Food allergies
Eosinophilic gastroenteritis
Allergic rhinitis/sinusitis

Pilot

WBC Reference Range: 5.7 - 16.3 K/uL

2/1/17: 11.6
2/16/17: 9.2 (gallbladder and liver infection)
2/17/18: 12.9
2/27/18: 16.5 (pancreatitis)
4/25/18: 13.1 (diarrhea)

Pilot's Eosinophils seems normal or on the low end of the spectrum.

However, Pilot's monocytes and neutrophils seem quite high.

Absolute Eosinophils Reference Range: 100 - 1250 /uL

2/1/17: 116
2/16/17: 60 (gallbladder and liver infection)
2/17/18: 206
2/27/18: 130 (pancreatitis)
4/27/18: 197 (diarrhea)

Absolute Monocytes Reference Range: 150 - 1350 /uL

2/1/17: 429
2/16/17: 148 (gallbladder and liver infection)
2/17/18: 877
2/27/18: 1420 (pancreatitis)
4/27/18: 1376 (diarrhea)

Absolute Neutrophils Reference Range: 3000 - 11500 /uL

2/1/17: 6322
2/16/17: 5030 (gallbladder and liver infection)
2/17/18: 7121
2/27/18: 12360 (pancreatitis)
4/27/18: 9222 (diarrhea)

Again, I found these PDFs:

https://www.idexx.eu/globalassets/do...ve-summary.pdf

Description: Monocytes are white blood cells that are responsible for phagocytosis, antigen presentation, and production of
cytokines.

Increased Monocytes
Common Causes
Inflammatory response (local or systemic; chronic or acute)
Infections: bacterial, rickettsial, fungal, protozoal
Immune-mediated disease
Tissue necrosis
Neoplasia
Corticosteroid-induced: endogenous or exogenous glucocorticoids

https://www.idexx.eu/globalassets/do...ve-summary.pdf

Description: Segmented neutrophils are the most abundant type of white blood cell (WBC). They respond quickly to
inflammation and stress, are capable of phagocytosis, and have antimicrobial properties.

Common Causes
Decreased bone marrow production
Infection
Parvovirus in dogs and cats
Feline leukemia virus
Toxoplasmosis
Rickettsial disease
Neoplasia
Increased tissue demand
Sepsis
Viral infections
Sequestration: collection of cells within an organ system or body compartment: abscess, pyometra, peritonitis,
pneumonia, necrotic tumor, etc…
Toxicity
Estrogens
Chemotherapy
Chloramphenicol, sulfas
Idiosyncratic drug reactions, toxicities


Keep in mind Pax and Pilot have been on the home cooked diet throughout this period. I'm highly suspicious they both get IBD and/or a bad food allergy both at the same exact time.