Kidney disease
 

On an annual wellness health visit, blood work turned up that our 9 year old Yorkie's (Wyland) BUN number was at 99. Max should be 31. Prior year he was at 19. Vet has put him on kidney med and blood pressure med, suggested even lower protein diet than we were doing, performed urine protein creatine ratio monthly only to show numbers after three months are not improving. They are basically telling us that there is nothing more that they can do and his life expectancy is greatly reduced. Wyland is not exposed to antifreeze or other toxins so it is also a "mystery" to the root cause. He is not experiencing pain and is still very active and eating/drinking well.
My husband and I have been reading about an herbal program by Canine Kidney Health by Five Leaf pet pharmacy, and wondering if anyone has used an herbal program and if it produced positive results. OR, if anyone has experienced kidney disease with their pet and can offer any suggestions. We are also going to seek another vet for a second opinion. Any comments greatly appreciated! We love our little guy!

So Sorry to hear about your "Baby". In additional to what you are doing, would suggest a second opinion from a specialist. Is there one in your area?

Kidney disease
 

Thank you! I am in the process of trying to locate a specialist as well. Please keep our little Wyland in your prayers.

So sorry to hear about Wyland's diagnosis. We sadly have had many members who have dealt with this issue. I looked about YT threads on this and perhaps there are some that will help you figure out a course of action. Hopefully others how have dealt with this will offer their advice. Sending prayers and best wishes.

Here is the YT search results.
Kidney - Google Search

Kidney disease
 

Thank you and I will look through the threads. The more the information, the better. It's nice to have the support of others!

Hi. I'm very sorry your baby has been diagnosed with Kidney Disease. My last yorkie was diagnosed with renal failure at age 12 and lived with it to age 16, but it was a lot of work and expense keeping him healthy.

You mentioned that your pup has a BUN of 99. Did your vet suggest sub q fluids to hydrate him and possibly lower that number? We did daily fluids at home for three years. It was the single most valuable intervention we put in place and I am sure it was what kept him alive. You did not mention the creatinine level. Creatinine is a better indicator of kidney function.

I have not used the Five Leaf Pharmacy products but know a couple of people that have. I don't want to say that they don't work at all because some people have limited early success with them, but their good reviews are all on their own webpage. They seem to offer a burst of help early on, but with no staying power and the products are very expensive. I would definitely do some more research and talk to your vet before investing in the product. My vet told us not to use them, that they were an expensive diuretic for the most part, and that our money would be better spent rehydrating our dog than dehydrating him. Of course, your mileage with the product may very well be different as mine is only anecdotal evidence since I didn't use it myself.

Diana

Kidney disease
 

Diana, Thank you so much for your time and consideration in offering such valuable information. I am sorry to hear that you have suffered the loss of a fur child. Wyland's creatine number in August was 2.3. We now have him scheduled with a specialist. I thought too on the hydration as I have read that it is critical to keep them hydrated. Our vet declined that it would be a benefit for him. ???? We are anxious to see what the specialist will have to say. We love our little guy and want to do whatever is best to give him a good quality of life. Thanks again and have a great day! Barb

So sorry your boy has been diagnosed with this horrible disease. I, sadly, have some experience with it. I've lost 2 dogs, a Dachshund and Yorkie to it and now my 14 year old Yorkie, Haley, was diagnosed with it a few months ago. It sounds like you're already seeking a second opinion so that's good. I work in a vet clinic and I can tell you with numbers as high as what your boy's are, the vets I work with would definitely recommend putting him on IV fluids to do a kidney flush. After the kidney values come down, they put them on sub q fluids at home. Keeping them hydrated is really important. Luckily with Haley, I caught hers early so I'm giving her fluids twice a week at home and so far she's doing well. As far as supplements, ask your vet about Azodyl. I had my last Yorkie on it and sub q fluids and he lived for a little over a year after being diagnosed. He also had severe arthritis and the medicine I had to keep him on to keep him comfortable for that was hard on his kidneys, so it's possible he would've lived even longer if not for that. The Azodyl has went up quite a bit in the last year so I'm trying something different with Haley. It's called Aventi KS powder and I just mix it in her food twice daily. I can get you the companies with cheapest prices if you're interested. I'm going to have her bloodwork repeated soon to see if it seems to be doing anything for her. She is also on Science Diet k/d food which is lower in protein and specifically for kidney disease. I hope this helps some. Good luck!

I'm so sorry about Wyland. It crept up really fast with my girl Minnie (she's the yorkie pictured in my avatar). She got blood tests every year to check the kidneys since she was older (no idea on the age since she was a rescue, but at least 10 and probably more like 13+ since she was full grown when we rescued her, and we had her 8 years) but got really sick one day and that turned out to be it. I put chicken broth in her water to encourage her to drink more, at my vets suggestion since her kidney function had plummeted so badly. Be on the lookout for seizures, Minnie never had them until the end, but they're apparently pretty common with kidney failure.

Barb, I'm glad you've got the appointment with the specialist. And fluids will definitely help to keep your pup more comfortable and live longer. Please check in and let us know how the appointment went.

My Scooby went to the Rainbow Bridge on October 30th last year and I still think of him and miss him, but he lived a long, happy and full life to the age of 16 and bravely battled chronic renal failure for almost four years. I could not ask him to continue the battle as he had painful arthritis and the meds to keep him comfortable caused further damage to his kidneys. I promised him that I would not let him suffer, and chose to let him go before things got bad.

Diana

Kidney disease
 

Hi Diana, Again, I am sorry to hear of your loss of Scooby and his battle with renal disease. I am in agreement with you that quality of life is more important than quantity, and we will not let our Wyland suffer, and do our best to keep him with us. My last dog was a lab and he lived to be 16 1/2. We were hoping for that with Wyland as well. On October 30th Wyland and I will say a little memorial to Scooby in his memory. I am sure he provided you much unconditional love and that he was fortunate to have such a great pet parent! Take care and I will update after appointment on Nov. 3rd. Warm regards, Barb

I have had different experiences with renal failure. Some pups do well and others not so much.

I had one pup, Cody, who was diagnosed with renal failure when he was 8. He was put on Hill's KD and his numbers came down on that diet. In time he didn't like that food so I switched him to Purina NF. Cody lived to be almost 13.

I have a pup now who has PLN (protein losing nephropathy) and she is on two blood pressure meds, aspirin and Purina NF. She is doing very well.

Hope this helps.

So sorry you are having to deal with this ... please keep us posted.

Thank you so very much for the valuable information, and I am sorry for all that you have had to deal with and continue to face. We are very anxious to see the specialist and what they may have to offer. I would most definitely be interested in any product information and the results that you are obtaining. Thank you for your time and your pups will be in our thoughts and prayers too!

Thank you so much for your time and thoughtfulness. Best wishes and continued good health to your fur kids!

Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness and to watch for seizures as I was unaware of that. We also put Pedialyte in Wyland's water which helps him drink more and help with keeping his electrolytes up. Really appreciate your support and best of good health to you all!

So sorry to hear this. My Peek-a-poo had this back in the early 2000's. Even then we gave him IV fluids several times a day. Round the clock care. He only lived 3 weeks with this. He was a month shy of 12 years. We tried everything, even blood transfusions. Nothing helped. It was horrible. I pray you have better results. Hopefully vet care has come a long way since my baby.

It was similar with Minnie, she got IV's three times and drank tons of water but only lived a week after first getting really sick. She was having these small seizures where she would lightly snap at the air like she was trying to catch a group of gnats over her head, but she was in such a delicate state that both my main vet and the ER vet I went to the night she had her first regular seizure (15 seconds or so) recommended against putting her on seizure drugs unless they progressed to grand mal seizures. It did progress to grand mal on a Sunday night when I was 45 minutes from the nearest ER and by the time I got her to the ER that night there was nothing that could be done. At least I know she was unconscious during the grand mal seizure and had a decent quality of life that last week after getting her first IV. She was pretty happy and lively, though peeing every 15 minutes of course. But it was so hard to see those seizures. :(

Kidney disease
 

I am so very sorry you and little Minnie had to go through so much. It is heart wrenching to see our little ones sick and wish they could talk to tell us how they feel. Thank you for sharing your experience and for your support. Best wishes for healthy days ahead for all.

Oh my that Peek-A-Poo only lived three weeks after diagnosis. I am so sorry. Wyland's diagnosis was quite a shock as his numbers were always good. He just turned 9 this month and he has had a really good life and given us more unconditional love than we could have ever imagined. We just want to keep him comfortable. We will hope for the best. Thank you for your support!

Wyland update
 

Hi all,


We were able to get a recommendation on a specialist and poor little Wyland was put through a ringer of tests. We really like and trust the specialist as we feel her true intention is to help Wyland have as much of a quality of life and be as comfortable as possible. She indicated his kidneys are functioning at probably about 25-30%. We will get tests results back next week from the urinalysis/cultures and blood work to see if there may be any other contributing illnesses. We will continue to take one day at a time and spoil the heck out of Wyland while we can!


Happy Halloween all and have a great weekend! Thanks for the support! Barb

So happy to hear that you found a specialist you are happy with. Continued prayers for your baby.

Thanks for updating...and for the good wishes...you enjoy your weekend as well! :)

Barb, I am so glad you found a specialist that you feel you can trust. You will know more once you get the test results back. Most pups diagnosed with kidney disease are at the point of 25% of remaining kidney function. That is when they begin to show symptoms and the affects start to show on blood work. My yorkie lived over three years with 25% of kidney function remaining at diagnosis and I know of many more that have fared just as well. There is much you can do to slow the progression of kidney disease. I am pulling for you and your pup and sending lots of prayers. Please post again when you get the test results. We care.

There are a couple of facebook groups out there that offer a lot of support for canine kidney disease. If you're interested, send me a PM and I will be glad to direct you to them.

Diana

Fingers crossed for good test results for Wyland.

Sub Q fluids
 

Hi all,


Our little Wyland has been recommended to have 50ml sub q fluids administered twice daily, along with additional oral meds. We are at the first day of doing this. Is twice daily excessive as I have read usually done a few times a week. We hate like heck putting him through the poking and anxiety of it all. Welcome any advice! Thank you! Barb

IV fluids are usually given for a few days and then labs rechecked.

Usually they tolerate the needle stick fairly well. I don't think it sounds excessive at all. I am sure they are doing it in small amounts twice/day so that he gets more benefit from it. I hope it helps him!

I'm so sorry to hear about Wylands kidney disese. I lost my Tiffany to it. The vet said there was not much to be done and her prognosis was poor. I searched the Internet and found PetWellbeing and got Kidney Support Gold which I am convinced gave her better numbers. The vet was pleased with the improvement, but strangely never asked what I was giving her. I hope your Wyland is with you for a long, long time. Tiffany made it to 15.

Barb -

Did the specialist suggest an IV flush (3-5 days of inpatient IV fluids) to try to get the numbers down? Would you be willing to share Wyland's weight and his BUN and Creatinine numbers? The amount of fluids prescribed is based on weight, and frequency is based on the amount of toxins that have built up in the dog's system. A rule of thumb is in the range of 5-15 ml of fluid per pound of your dog's weight per day and a vet may prescribe an even higher amount if the numbers are very high. A dog with moderate kidney disease just starting out on fluids may be prescribed fluids a few times per week, but a the disease advances and the amount of toxins is higher, daily fluids is not uncommon. My friend recently had her 6 pound yorkie seen at Tufts. She was diagnosed with advanced kidney disease and prescribed 60 ml of fluids twice daily following five days inpatient on IV fluids. Every case is different so it's hard to even have an opinion without knowing how much damage there is to your dog's kidneys.

How is Wyland tolerating the treatment?

Diana

Barb -

I am not sure what areas you're looking for advice, but I kept my little CRF dog going for over three years. I'm no expert, but certainly have lots of experience with fluids. Here are some tips on the fluids.

Treating kidney disease and doing daily fluids can get expensive. My vet charged a ginormous amount for the bags of fluid and lines, so I got a written rx from her and purchased supplies online for less than 1/3rd the cost and free shipping. You can PM me if you'd like info on suppliers.

The needles my vet supplied were big 18 gauge needles that looked like harpoons when I stuck my little guy. I purchased a special brand of needles that were thin and ultra sharp and much more comfortable for him. Doing fluids twice daily, your dog's skin may get sore, and it is easy to build up scar tissue. Using the Terumo needles, we never had an issue with that. I can also give you info on where to purchase the needles.

It is also much more comfortable for your dog if you slightly warm the fluids to body temperature before administering them. Never warm them in the microwave, but my vet suggested placing the whole IV bag and tube inside a sealed one gallon Ziploc bag and floating it in a large bowl of warm/hot water for about 15 minutes first. You can test the temp of the fluids by dripping a few drops on the inside of your wrist like you'd test a baby bottle.

Make fluids a happy bonding time between you and Wyland. I would take a big fluffy towel or baby blanket and warm it in the dryer for a few minutes, then wrap him in the towel during fluid time. He was cozy and warm and settled right in with the towel. I also had special treats that he loved, and he only got them during and after fluids. I used tiny little milk bones, you can buy the little ones that are only about 3/4 of an inch long and he'd much on about two of them during the time I was administering the fluids. When we were done, I'd give him a couple of tiny chunks of peeled apple, which he loved, as a reward. He never resisted his fluid time and would happily follow me right into the bedroom when he saw me with the fluid bag.

Hopefully, some of these ideas will make the fluids a little more pleasant for Wyland.

If you are on facebook, there are a couple of facebook support groups for parents of dogs with kidney disease that you might find helpful. Let me know if you'd like info on them.

Good luck, Barb. There is a lot to learn but it quickly becomes routine.

Diana

Agree that each case is different. If a pup is in serious trouble, yes, IV fluids are given over a period of days.

She asked if it was out of line what was prescribed and it certainly does not sound it to me. Yes it is based on weight .. but 100cc during a day sounds like not so much to me.

The tips you gave are good especially warming the fluids because they can tend to chill them. I do like a 22 gauge needle, but it does take a bit longer. (but I am used to giving more fluids only once/day) It takes a few hours for the fluid to actually totally absorb so I am thinking twice is optimal. In a skittish pup, I might go a bit larger. I see people cringe when they see the size of the microchip needles, but I have not seen many pups even act like they have been stuck. Those things are scary looking...LOL

As for numbers, while they are very important, nothing takes the place of a physical exam by a vet ... often clinical signs will tell a different story. One of the specialists I use once said that, "you treat the dog, not the labs" .

I do love the tips given on some of the Yahoo and perhaps FB groups, but I have also seen some people scare the heck out of pet owners and bash vets while trying to play vet themselves. I also have seen misinformation given out...especially on Facebook. I have long learned to listen and then go to my vet and ask ... I don't trust anyone but a licensed vet and while yes, some vets may not be the best, I will never think or believe that a lay person knows more. I have plenty of experience with many different conditions, but always defer to vets. Please know I am not talking about you or your information....just giving my thoughts and tips about the online information.

Here is a very informative link about giving subcutaneous fluids:

Subcutaneous Fluid Administration in Dogs | VCA Animal Hospitals

and another...

Giving Subcutaneous Fluids to a Dog

Ladyjane - I agree that the best information comes from one's own vet. I have seen incorrect information posted on the internet as well. The group I was referring to on facebook is a support group, not a medical/informational group. The members are very supportive of each other and provide a shoulder to lean on. It's a tough path to walk when your dog has been diagnosed with kidney failure and sometimes just having someone say "I have been there and know how you feel" helps a lot.

Diana