Liver shunt - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Russpilot · 07-18-2015, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiesmominva

For the poster who said after the surgery, dog would be on low protein diet for life -- this is NOT so. Dogs cannot stay on low protein diets for long. When the liver shunt is closed and bile acid numbers are "normal", you absolutely must start giving your dog protein. Also, a CT is necessary, not an ultrascan to confirm the shunt.

I have done a lot of research on liver shunts and if anyone has any questions, I would be happy to answer.

Sorry, but this statement is not accurate. Sometimes the shunts do not close fully, sometimes secondary shunting can occur, and sometimes, the numbers just never get back to the levels needed to introduce full protein foods and the dog must stay on L/D or H/D food for the rest of their life. They mitigate the symptoms with various drugs to help them keep the ammonia down in their blood. This comes to me directly from the Dr. at the University of Florida that is known as a "Shunt Guru" and who teaches all of the vets in the Florida curriculum how to do shunt surgeries on this breed. Not trying to be argumentative, but I want to be sure that the info on this subject on this forum stays accurate.

Yorkiemom1 · 07-18-2015, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly

I'm very sorry your little boy is ill. I don't have any experience personally, but I've read of many pups who have done great with the surgery. This link is very comprehensive, and it explains the surgery. The cost of surgery there is less than many places, and Dr. Tobias is an expert on lover shunt. They may know of organizations that offer help for pups in need of the surgery. I would reach out to them.

http://www.vet.utk.edu/clinical/sacs...2013-09-26.pdf

If I ever had this issue with a pup of mine, I would crawl over broken glass, to get to Dr.Tobias and her fine surgical team/program! They are soooooo helpful and understanding and compassionate and GREAT at what they do!!!!!

Yorkiemom1 · 07-18-2015, 09:50 AM

This is the second time today I have mentioned using this product in the last 12 hours!!!....MILK THISTLE!! Havent mentioned it in MONTHS and now we need its benefits again!!! It is super for liver disease, in both humans as well as our pups. My dear friend had a little pup with end stage liver disease and Milk Thistle plus lactalose added to her diet, extended that babys life.

Milk Thistle helps clear the liver and I have all my dogs taking it daily just to be sure they are not confronted with any toxins they may pick up in the yard.....fertilizer for the grass, bug sprays from neighbors, anything any wild animal may cross my yard with at night, anything that may appear in dog food......Drug addicts in Germany have been using Milk Thistle to help with their liver disease for many years.....that is where I first learned about it as I was trying to research everything I could find to help my hippy cousin extend his life. It helped him survive an additional 4 years past what the docs had given him.....so I researched it in animal use and I put all my dogs on it prophylactically. I order it out of Canada......"PetWellbeing" is the company I order mine from for my animals.....it helps clean their little livers from any toxins they may come across!

sophiesmominva · 07-18-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russpilot

Sorry, but this statement is not accurate. Sometimes the shunts do not close fully, sometimes secondary shunting can occur, and sometimes, the numbers just never get back to the levels needed to introduce full protein foods and the dog must stay on L/D or H/D food for the rest of their life. They mitigate the symptoms with various drugs to help them keep the ammonia down in their blood. This comes to me directly from the Dr. at the University of Florida that is known as a "Shunt Guru" and who teaches all of the vets in the Florida curriculum how to do shunt surgeries on this breed. Not trying to be argumentative, but I want to be sure that the info on this subject on this forum stays accurate.

Hi Russpilot -- I believe what I said was accurate. In your original post you indicated your pup would be on a low protein diet for the rest of its life with no mention of any tests to verify the operation was a success or not. I agree that this procedure is not 100% and I have been told that pressure from the shunt closure can actually cause new shunts to form. I also did say "when the bile numbers are normal or close to normal; you can gradually introduce a normal protein diet". The operative word being 'when'. Your pup is only one month out from the operation so I think it is too premature to say your pup would be on a low-protein diet forever. I also said that it may take several months for those bile acid numbers to come down, as the liver needs time to repair itself. I also stand by my statement that dogs cannot sustain a low protein diet very long; they need protein for proper organ function among other things.

I am hoping your pup's surgery was a success and after a few months when you get your tests results back, which I hope are good, you can increase the protein in your dog's diet.

Sorry about the confusion. I read your post to indicate that even with surgery, your pup would remain on low protein forever (without knowing if the surgery worked).

Russpilot · 07-18-2015, 09:40 PM

I reread my post and see what you mean. What I should have said was that because of what has happened, we will be cautious with protein for a long time with her. My actual contention with what you said is that they can not remain on low protein diets for long periods of time. It will make them thrive and grow more slowly, but it can prolong their life in some situations. But all things considered, I did misspeak when I said it was probable that Bella will be required to stay on that diet for her life. We are hoping that the 3 and 6 month BAT will show her liver waking up. If so, I can not tell you how much I look forward to giving her salmon again... she really LOVED seared salmon! But I will be nervous about it for a long time none the less.

sophiesmominva · 07-19-2015, 10:07 AM

Let's both keep each other updated on their progress and results of their BATs. Here's hoping for great success for both of our pups!

Also I am going to try the milk thistle as recommended by another poster.

Russpilot · 07-19-2015, 05:56 PM

Going to ask the vet about milk thistle too. Anything that helps the liver do its work is a good thing for our girl!

Russpilot · 07-19-2015, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiesmominva

Let's both keep each other updated on their progress and results of their BATs. Here's hoping for great success for both of our pups!

Also I am going to try the milk thistle as recommended by another poster.

Absolutely. Bella was just over 100 at her one month post op. I am hoping to cut that almost in half at 3 months. Fingers crossed.

07-18-2015, 09:50 AM	#18
Yorkiemom1 Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 9,462	This is the second time today I have mentioned using this product in the last 12 hours!!!....MILK THISTLE!! Havent mentioned it in MONTHS and now we need its benefits again!!! It is super for liver disease, in both humans as well as our pups. My dear friend had a little pup with end stage liver disease and Milk Thistle plus lactalose added to her diet, extended that babys life. Milk Thistle helps clear the liver and I have all my dogs taking it daily just to be sure they are not confronted with any toxins they may pick up in the yard.....fertilizer for the grass, bug sprays from neighbors, anything any wild animal may cross my yard with at night, anything that may appear in dog food......Drug addicts in Germany have been using Milk Thistle to help with their liver disease for many years.....that is where I first learned about it as I was trying to research everything I could find to help my hippy cousin extend his life. It helped him survive an additional 4 years past what the docs had given him.....so I researched it in animal use and I put all my dogs on it prophylactically. I order it out of Canada......"PetWellbeing" is the company I order mine from for my animals.....it helps clean their little livers from any toxins they may come across! Last edited by Yorkiemom1; 07-18-2015 at 09:52 AM.

07-18-2015, 09:40 PM	#20
Russpilot Donating 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA Posts: 881	I reread my post and see what you mean. What I should have said was that because of what has happened, we will be cautious with protein for a long time with her. My actual contention with what you said is that they can not remain on low protein diets for long periods of time. It will make them thrive and grow more slowly, but it can prolong their life in some situations. But all things considered, I did misspeak when I said it was probable that Bella will be required to stay on that diet for her life. We are hoping that the 3 and 6 month BAT will show her liver waking up. If so, I can not tell you how much I look forward to giving her salmon again... she really LOVED seared salmon! But I will be nervous about it for a long time none the less. __________________ Russ, Denise, Bella and Bailey .

07-19-2015, 05:56 PM	#22
Russpilot Donating 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA Posts: 881	Going to ask the vet about milk thistle too. Anything that helps the liver do its work is a good thing for our girl! __________________ Russ, Denise, Bella and Bailey .

07-19-2015, 10:07 AM	#21
sophiesmominva Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 59	Let's both keep each other updated on their progress and results of their BATs. Here's hoping for great success for both of our pups! Also I am going to try the milk thistle as recommended by another poster.