Need Some Advice For Tibbe's Very Smelly Feet & MVD
 

Before we go to the vet, I need some advice from the real experts - YT moms. Tibbe has a compromised liver, having been diagnosed with MVD, and also has a pretty rough case of IBS - can only eat his strict diet without getting sick - nauseated, vomiting, refusal to eat and eventually mucous-y stools if he varies even a tad from his prescription food of Hill's ID GI and Hills LD Hepatic(canned) mixture. But now I think he's possibly got a yeast infection, mainly from the smell, which has been going on a couple of weeks.

His Frito Feet(and seemingly, his whole underside) have gone from a mild corn smell of his his pawpads to that of rank, musty, bad, bad yeasty smell coming from his pawpads and undercarriage and the poor boy really, really stinks, even with daily soaks in vinegar and water, vinegar and hydrogen peroxide mixed in water, baking soda in water(have tried a different one each of the last 4 days) and baths(using Hexachlor-K) every 5 - 6 days. He's been itchy lately with one small hot spot on his chest now and another on his hip that formed last fall, before the bad smell started, but healed without his acting itchy. He's scratching some now though he doesn't scratch much - maybe 10 times a day. His eyes are quite weepy this last 10 days.

I'm going to be ordering coconut oil, acidophilus and whatever else you all recommend. I would very much appreciate your advice on the brands you all use that a liver-compromised dog can use - brands that I can order from Amazon.com.

I'm frightened to death to try to change his food due to his IBS but any help with the brands of things you all have used in this type of yeasty, itchy, eye-weeping situation will be so very appreciated.

Just a random thought, when was his last check-up and bloodwork done? I am wondering if maybe his liver isn't functioning correcting to help filter toxins from his system and maybe they're building up and (for lack of a better grasp of wording) oozing through his skin?

I wonder if maybe a dose of IV fluids to help dilute and flush any toxins, maybe?

What about something holistic like milkthistle for liver support?

Best wishes for you. I am quite sure this is frustrating to have to experience. :(

Oh I am sorry Jeanie :( what a struggle! I would think an anti fungal cream would be the way to go. I wish I had some better advice to share but my sympathy and well wishes are all I am armed with tonight. Best of luck, I hope a guru answers promptly :)

Ohhhh Nooooo Not my Tibbe....I hope you get to the bottom of this quickly, keep us posted...xoxoxo Tibbe!

I'm so very sorry Jeanie to read that poor Tibbe is suffering :(

If you decide you want to try and change his food then a grain free diet can sometimes help with yeast issues, YT members may be able to list some safe food brands for you to try since I'm not familiar with all the US brands. Hoping other members might have some better suggestions for you.

Hoping Tibbe finds some relief soon. Hugs to both you and Tibbe from myself and Pebbles.

Aw, poor Tibbe :(!! So sorry all this is going on for you both.

If the yeast is really systemic and wide spread, then you may very likely need a round of Diflucan or Nystatin x 14 days or even more. That would clear it up easily and quickly, and prevent further spread. Baths and topical stuff doesn't always work well w/ infections that have spread and are rapidly multiplying.

For shampoos, I'd probably go with either/both Duoxo or one of these shampoos going forward, if there are ongoing skin issues:

http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...bs+vf++shampoo


"Hot spots" are actually staph intermedius infections (pyoderma) and can sometimes be treated topically/locally, like w/ Mupirocin from the vet.

Jeannie, you and Tibbe are so dear to me. I'm so sorry he is not feeling well. I don't know if it can be purchased through Amazon, but I give Katie a probiotic and digestive enzyme that was recommended by Ann that really helps when Katie has an upset stomach. I'm sure the company can help answer questions about whether it will cause issues with Tibbe's liver. The owner of the company is very knowledgeable. I really trust this company and have purchased many products from them.

DOGZYMES Probiotic Max 8 oz » Natures Farmacy Inc.
Systemic Yeast Infections in Dogs | Natures Farmacy Inc.
THE FORGOTTEN ORGAN IN OUR BODIES??? DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS? | Natures Farmacy Inc.

I've never dealt with yeast infections, but the medications that Ann suggested might be a good idea first and then a follow-up with a good probiotic. I realize that there may be too many ingredients in Nature's Farmacy for an allergic dog, but I would call and speak to Jennifer, and she might be really helpful. I trust that she would not recommend anything that would harm Tibbe.

Hugs to you and Tibbe. I have been especially busy with work and John and Katie, but just know you are never far from my thoughts or heart. I will pray for both of you.

Poor Tibby, is he also a itchy miserable mess?

Not sure if coconut oil kills yeast...it does kill fungus & bacteria...is yeast a form of one or both?

Here's a good video on how to bathe your dog w/coconut oil.
Coconut Oil: The Kitchen Staple Perfect for Your Pet's Skin

I've also read an article by Dr. Becker that a yeasty dog should not be fed any sugary foods, like carbs. Because that is fuel for the yeast. I know Tibby is on a RX diet & that is almost impossible to avoid...

Teddy Bear had a liver shunt repair and has MVD and IBD. He was put on Hill's Ultra Z/D and has done very well on it.

For normal bad-smelling frito feet, I swear by a diluted Betadine foot soak. Add Betadine to warm water until it's the color of iced tea, and have Tibbe stand in it for a minute. However, since it sounds like the yeast has spread beyond the feet, I don't know how well this would work. Maybe your vet can recommend a topical antifungal like Lotrimin that isn't absorbed through the skin and won't affect the liver. (Yeast is a fungus.)

Poor Tibbe! Sending well wishes for your little boy. I do not have any suggestions to add to the good advice you have already received other than, if you include coconut oil in your treatment plan, I love Cocotherapy and Nutiva brands.

I dug up a little more information on the Betadine foot soak. (You're supposed to do it for 2 to 5 minutes, not for one minute like I said.)

The Huge Benefits of Foot Soaks for Dogs|Dr. Karen Becker

And it looks like you can treat the whole body with diluted Betadine from the neck down:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/dr-jo...t/102327473731

I realize that this information is from Mercola, and some people have issues with his work, but I know for a fact that the foot soak works for Bella's yeasty feet. Also, it seems to be nontoxic and doesn't have to be rinsed off with water. Just soak the feet and you're good to go.

Another solution that my vet gave me years ago is to do a warm 50/50 vinegar and water solution as a rinse after shampooing. Acid to counteract base. Works great on fungal infections on the skin.

My boy has bad food allergies and I swear by the wellness limited ingredient, grain free dry food for small breeds and mixed with a little of the vital grain free, poultry free whitefish blend or the beef blend.

Thank you one and all for the good wishes and ideas. I'll be running those by the vet but mostly I appreciate those who mentioned actual brands they've used without harm. I'm scared to death to just branch out and use something I order off the internet without a referral of some kind! :)

Tibbe's last blood work was done just before he had his dental cleaning, which was done 12/30/14, and was all normal. His thyroid has been tested last summer and is normal. He's rarely nauseous or lethargic or any of the symptoms he had before he started on the special MVD diet - nor did he have any itching until he started on the hepatic diet. That's why I give him only half of the hepatic canned food - he itches badly if he eats a whole meal of the hepatic diet so cutting it with half of the Hill's ID GI tones the itching down to about 10 or so scratches a day.

I may be wrong but I don't think his MVD is really not the problem right now - it's his bad, yeasty smell, stinky feet and really, his skin. I've tried all the foot/underbelly soaks between baths there are mentioned by you all - been to Dr. Becker's website a lot, watched her videos and many, many other websites that discuss systemic yeast infection in dogs. I've tried all the different paw soaks except the betadine recommended by pstinard, from baking soda and h20, hydrogen peroxide and h20, hydrogen peroxide mixed with white vinegar and h20, and white vinegar and h20 alone - none really stop his stinky feet/underbelly. I swish the solution up onto his undercarriage and chest hotspots during the foot soaks. Only a full bath in the Hexachlor takes the odor completely away for a day before it come right back but I can't bathe him any less than 5 days apart of he gets dry, flaky skin and itchy.

He's itchy as it is now, but not wildly so - again maybe scratches 10 times or so a day when he's up and about - didn't seem worth it to have him on a medication for it, possibly compromising his liver or IBS further, for so little itching so I've not taken him to the vet for it. It's the odor and those hot spots that worry me that he's become yeast-infected systemically and that's scary.

Borderkelpie, the thing is, I don't know a thing about milkthistle and wouldn't know which brand is trusted for a liver-compromised, MVD dog, as OTC drugs have no oversight by anyone to prove they don't have harmful things in them. I'm so scared of products no government agency really tests out or at least reads reports on that someone signs off on. Besides, his liver seems to be doing well for the time being, it's just this awful smell and the two hot spots I'm worried about right now. That and changing his diet to help his yeast problem touching off his hair-trigger IBS.

Ann, I appreciate the ideas and will be asking the vet about all of those - sounds like a comprehensive plan for all of his problems right now and thank you for mentioning the brand names! I believe his yeast is systemic, flared up within the last 2 or 3 weeks from his diet but am soooooo scared to chance sickening him and flaring up his IBS by introducing new, yeast-unfriendly food!

Lisa, I'm likely ordering your recommended products later today after I read the articles - I've scanned the articles and they sound like part of what we need as it's apparently going to take a multi-pronged attack to harness this yeast.

I'm going to buy some extra virgin coconut oil also but need a brand name recommendation someone has successfully used with a liver-compromised dog. Anyone on YT know of one?

You all are the best - I knew I would get help here and my YT experts would point the way to go to help little stinky, itchy Tibbe!!! He's the BESTEST, sweetest little boy and I really need to get a handle on this but wanted to hear from you all before we see the vet.

But any minimal change to Tibbe's strict MVD diet to help his liver gives him nausea, vomiting and eventually pus-y stools and once or twice, days of diarrhea, or I'd have gone to grain-free long, long ago just from his itching once we started him on the hepatic diet. It's a real conundrum. :(

Jeanie, if you want to try some Probiotic Max for a while to see how Tibbe does on it, I'd be happy to send you some out on Tuesday. It has helped my friend's Bichon with yeast issues and all of Jackie's dogs also are on it, and they love it. I also have coconut oil that was highly recommended by people here on YorkieTalk. I have a brand new extra pint that I'd be happy to send you. If it could help you or Tibbe, it would give me great pleasure.

Coconut Oil - Wet-milled Gold Label Virgin Coconut Oil from Tropical Traditions

I have knowledge of these products on liver compromised dogs, but I can speak about the quality of products from both companies.

I love it, Lisa. I'm so scared to just go "blind" into any product but something that's been tried and tested sounds so good. I'll send you a check by return mail - just tell me how much, dear friend!!! ♥♥♥

The post office is closed tomorrow, but I will send them both out Tuesday. No money is necessary; helping you and Tibbe is all I need.

I am so thankful that my vets/vet specialists always have answers for my pups. I really don't understand when people must get answers online. I know you said you came here first, but sounds to me more like you don't have vets you trust much.

Lisa, you are one of a kind. I'm so blessed to have met you here! I'm speechless by your generous and kind offer!!!

Time to fess up a bit. I've torn or strained a pectoral muscle about 12 days ago and it was really bad at first, then better and but I keep re-injuring it and can barely use my right arm. Lifting 7 lb. Tibbe to bathe, get him into the truck to take to the vet or anything is so painful right now that I've put off taking him to the vet for 5 days waiting until I can manage better. Also, I was just told last month by the pain medicine specialist who'd ordered a scan that I probably need a left total hip replacement before long(already have a right one which didn't turn out that well) as I can barely walk from that hip pain so I need to see an orthopedic surgeon but just am having too much pain to get myself into see one right now. Managing life is a little tough right now. I don't even feel like playing with or chasing little Tibbe lately. He hasn't had a walk for a almost two weeks due to my hip. All our playing is done on the couch or bed and we walk in the house - he right alongside me - going round and round inside the house.

As Tibbe's not actually ill or scratching badly or anything, is eating well, playful, sleeping well, happy and his usual toot-y little self, I've told myself this is not actually an actual urgent thing - he's just so dang rankly stinky(that heavy yeasty/sweet/musty odor) and had those hot spots that have now healed over(quickly for hot spots, it seems). I know this can't be good for him and need to get him in before something drastic happens but I've got to admit that for the very first time in my life, I've put off taking my dog to the vet the moment he needs it. If he were ill or hurt, it would be different but for now, I'm buying time until my right chest/arm heals up some. Getting us both up into my huge truck with my iffy right chest/arm and bad left hip is just not that easy to do. Even picking little Tibbe up is something I put off as much as possible for the past few days and he's been so sweet about it - like he knows I want to but don't for some reason. He's been so patient with me.

I've not even been online this last week or more as lifting my 6 lb. laptop from the table beside the couch to set it on the couch arm so I can see it is grindingly painful - and then yesterday, soaking Tibbe's feet/underbelly in the white vinegar/water solution, I must have pulled the right chest area again and now, even deep breathing hurts like crazy, besides being unable to really move my right shoulder and arm that much w/out a whole lot of pain!!! It's a tough time and I know I'm not that responsible a dog owner this past few days.

Your generous offer is so appreciated and hopefully, I'll muster the character to get my special little baby in tomorrow or Wednesday. If not, I'm going to call the office manager at the vet's office who once offered to come pick up Tibbe and bring him in for vet care anytime we are in a pinch - but I so hate to ask it of her for a seemingly non-urgent situation for a dog whose not really sick or hurt. Right now, I feel like a really bad, sad mommie.

Oh, you are so blessed, Linda, to have your go-to vets and know and trust them all. I've had vets I trusted in the past who seemed to always be on call and never seemed to vacation or take sick-leave and I do have one even now - but she's taking time off and doesn't work a full schedule. I've not had any experience with yeast infections ever and I simply wanted to know more before I feel physically up to taking him in.

I wish I were able to locate a close-by vet I can really trust 24/7/365(other than the 24-hour emergency hospital whose entire staff of vets I do trust but who don't treat non-emergent cases). Hopefully, when the vet I do trust at his vet's office returns from her LOA, we'll be back in business again with a vet we know and trust. But until then, I'm left with ones who I don't really know that well and want to know more about yeast infection, treatments, etc. before I take Tibbe in to one of those guys. As usual, YT has kindly supported us and helped out with lots of great information, positive thoughts, prayers and advice and left us feeling less alone in a situation neither of us has ever faced.

Ashamed to say, I've not been able to keep up with you and your rescue work these last few months as I've been online less and less but I hope and pray all is well with you and yours. Don't work yourself down and know you and your little charges are always in my thoughts and prayers.

I really do feel for people who don't have good vets. Mine is retiring and I am a bit stressed out about it. Hopefully, I won't go through what many of you do. I have some options...will see how it pans out.

Changing vets can be so, so stressful. You feel kinda lost at first. That happened to me between losing Jilly and getting Tibbe - some 5 years or so. Our two most trusted vets at the same clinic retired and we only had one left that I knew - one I didn't like as much left so we didn't stay at that clinic for long after I got Tibbe. I took Tibbe in with ear mites when I first got him & that vet gave me an estimate of $479.00 or so dollars to run tests, clean the ears and supply medications - apart from all his other testing and vaccinations and all that he was having as a new patient to that clinic, with his dental and neuter still looming ahead. I asked if they couldn't just clean his ears thoroughly and we just couldn't try him on ear mite medication for 10 days as we used to do in the old days and see if that cleared it first and if not, we'd follow protocol and do all the testing and rounds of medication - he agreed and, thankfully, it worked. Tibbe's mites cleared up with that cleaning and simple ear mite medication and he's never had them since. I'll spend any amount of money on my dog to diagnose or treat him if it's truly necessary but won't line up for what seemed like unnecessary charges when they seem excessive and out of protocol. The vet agreed he had no reason to suspect a secondary ear infection at that point - just wanted to test and see.

I then took him to another vet clinic later, one who has two vets, but one misdiagnosed Tibbe as having an enlarged heart from an x-ray, telling me that he could be in heart failure, when I took him in after coughing for two hours and looking rather hangdog that morning and he sent us straight to the ER hospital with possible heart failure. They ran re-took the x-ray, did blood work, did a cardiac Doppler, and found he had early focal pneumonia and his heart test and heart size on x-ray were entirely normal! Whew! But the vets there said they could see how that first x-ray could have led the first vet to think maybe it was an enlarged heart due to the way it appeared(?!?!?) on the film. Still, you'd have thought that first vet(the one I'd like not Tibbe to see now while the other vet's on leave) could have heard lung changes, rales or something and recognize a case of pneumonia when he sees it!

Anyway, Tibbe was treated at the Emergency Hospital, kept overnight, re-x-rayed two weeks later to be sure his lungs were clear and got well, though his medication for the pneumonia played heck with his IBS and besides diarrhea and vomiting after he started on the antibiotics and Medrol, he had a terrible bout of severe itching from something he was taking. It's never easy with Tibbe once you try to treat him for something.

Yea! I was able to get him a drop-off appt. at the vet today which means they are booked full so I'll have to drop him off and leave him and the doctor will call me for symptoms, see him in between other appts. or last of all and then I can go in and discuss it with the doctor and get medications; but at least maybe we can get a start on this yeast! Poor baby just had a bath Sunday and today his feet and skin are so stinky already! He's not scratched even once today but his smell is really loud.

The thing that has scared me about taking him into the vet most I think is they are probably going to want to start talking diet change among other treatments and he's been so unable to manage even the slightest change in diet or take some medications w/out getting so sick. He's from Jilly's family lineage - it turns out - and that poor little girl could only eat one particular food in life(and we tried most of them) for the whole of her life w/out getting bloody diarrhea and vomiting, so IBS runs in that particular pedigree, sad to say. And antibiotics always gave her running diarrhea, though Tibbe usually manages his meds a little - just a little - better than Jilly ever did.

Well, wish us luck and pray for us that Tibbe's treatment doesn't tick off his IBS some way but that he can just get over this whatever it is that has him so stinky and itchy and eye-drain-y at times.

Linda, here's hoping you find a great, trusted new vet with as little upset and worry as possible because it's never easy to find just the right one for some of us.

Lisa, that is so very nice of you to send those bottles to yorkietalkjilly. I had the same response years ago chatting with someone in California about my German Shepherd's joints and she sent a bottle of I think it was Dasaquin free.

I know how much you are appreciated for being there and to help. Hugs to you:)

I wish you the best of luck Linda! You know what I am going through. Fingers Crossed for Dr K - who replaced my Dr Jack who retired! Dang him, imagine wanting a life different to a vets' life:).

Thanks, Jeanie, I hope so too.

As for his IBS if they suggest the Ultra Z/D I would seriously try it. I was amazed at how it helped Teddy. He also has MVD.

Hopefully today they will come up with a workable solution. Keep us posted!

Jeanie, I hope you feel better and get treatment when you are able to. I also hope Tibbe will have wonderful results with the coconut oil Lisa is sending you. You take care of yourself and try not to over do. Hugs to you! :)

Jeanie so glad you could get him into the vet! TAke care of yourself along the way too!

I'm back home but Tibbe is still at the vet clinic. The vet's nurse called and he's afraid to try Nystatin with his MVD, wants to try an antibiotic shot, more of the Hexachlor shampoo daily for 10 mins. soak and Benasoothe - a conditioner I already use on him with little help. I've asked the doctor to call me - scared the shot will just kill off his good bacteria and allow the yeast to go wild. Maybe I'm wrong and it's not yeast but he smells just like Frito Feet all over with an added sweet, musky, rank smell added in - like coming directly from his pawpads and skin.