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-   -   Bailee has Double LP?? Advice Wanted (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/276909-bailee-has-double-lp-advice-wanted.html)

Saltypearl 07-10-2014 05:38 AM
Bailee has Double LP?? Advice Wanted
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi All,

Been a while since I have posted. All has been going great with Bailee. !! she is approaching 9 months old (tomorrow) and is a whopping 4.7 pounds and is as cute as can be.

I noticed a couple weeks ago she had been lifting her left hind leg at times. Nothing else out of the ordinary. when I took her to the vet last week (she had a stitch that never dissolved from her spay surgery), I asked about luxating patellas. She said Bailee had them in both legs. In just a week, she is now lifting her right hind leg at times, but she does not seem to be in pain??

I have done reading and talked to another vet, and he said just to keep an eye on her?? Some dogs as long as they are not in pain, can live with this??

I am heartroken. My baby is only 9 months old.

GracieJane 07-10-2014 06:58 AM
I feel your pain. Our little stinker had surgery on her double LP yesterday and won't be home until tomorrow. She will be ten months old on the 22nd, so we were certainly not expecting this.

I am NOT an expert, but please talk to your vet about his/her recommendation and have Bailee seen by a surgeon. Because you are dealing with a young dog, the choices you make will have a longer impact. Our first yorkie was diagnosed with LP on one side when she was older, and I never pursued treatment. It just wasn't a big factor in her life at that point. The thing that scared me with Gracie was her youth and the risk of arthritis for many years remaining to her (and some of us know how that feels!) It seemed important to address the problem.

Others who have deeper, more significant knowledge will surely reply, and your professionals may have other advice. Just know that you are not alone--it is scary, and our house is way too quiet today with Gracie at the hospital.:(

pstinard 07-10-2014 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltypearl (Post 4462673)
Hi All,

Been a while since I have posted. All has been going great with Bailee. !! she is approaching 9 months old (tomorrow) and is a whopping 4.7 pounds and is as cute as can be.

I noticed a couple weeks ago she had been lifting her left hind leg at times. Nothing else out of the ordinary. when I took her to the vet last week (she had a stitch that never dissolved from her spay surgery), I asked about luxating patellas. She said Bailee had them in both legs. In just a week, she is now lifting her right hind leg at times, but she does not seem to be in pain??

I have done reading and talked to another vet, and he said just to keep an eye on her?? Some dogs as long as they are not in pain, can live with this??

I am heartroken. My baby is only 9 months old.
Our Bella was diagnosed with LP after I noticed that she kept one of her hind legs up most of the time. My vet told me that Bella had a couple of years before arthritis would set in, but the sooner the surgery, the better the prognosis. Here is the thread about Bella's surgery and recovery:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...a-surgery.html

Edit: Bella was 15 months old when she had her surgery.

ladyjane 07-10-2014 02:59 PM
The surgeon I use for ortho surgery said that arthritis is not an issue with LP. The issue with LP is that after a period of time the cruciate ligament gets worn and often the pups end up tearing that ligament. With adult dogs he usually does not recommend surgery for LP because the ligament is already worn at that point and often the pup will end up tearing the ligament after the knee is repaired. Then, the poor pup must undergo another surgery and the owner is stuck with another large surgical bill. He does do repairs in young dogs to avoid all of the wear and tear. SO, I highly recommend you seek the opinion of an orthopedic surgeon. I personally will only use board certified surgeons. If interested you can find one at:
www.acvs.org Or, perhaps your vet knows of one.
Good luck and please keep us posted.

Saltypearl 07-11-2014 05:26 AM
How do they determine the severity of the LP?

ladyjane 07-11-2014 05:38 AM
Here are some helpful links about LP:

https://www.acvs.org/small-animal/patellar-luxations

Yorkie Haven Rescue - Patellar Luxation Info

Yorkie Haven Rescue - Cranial Cruciate Ligament Tear Info

Saltypearl 07-11-2014 07:33 AM
Thank you all. going to the vet today for a consult

Wylie's Mom 07-11-2014 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltypearl (Post 4463154)
Thank you all. going to the vet today for a consult
Awesome...let us know how it goes. I know you said your kiddo isn't in pain, but if she is lifting her leg like that...that means she is in pain, that's why she's lifting it bc it's uncomfortable. Remember too, that dogs can and do mask a good deal of pain.

I had Wylie's LPs done about 1.5 yrs ago when he was around 8, and it went really well. He didn't lift his leg or show any other symptoms until that age, even though he had LP since he was a pup. The recovery was not as bad as I thought it would be...although the 1st couple/few days are tough.

Good luck w/ your kiddo :)!

Saltypearl 07-11-2014 01:54 PM
Just got back from the vet. Bailee is a 4 in her right leg and a 3-4 in her left leg.
Our vet works with an orthopedic surgeon, and she will contact him. Bailee will need both knees done at the same time .
I am going to schedule for October .

pstinard 07-11-2014 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltypearl (Post 4463325)
Just got back from the vet. Bailee is a 4 in her right leg and a 3-4 in her left leg.
Our vet works with an orthopedic surgeon, and she will contact him. Bailee will need both knees done at the same time .
I am going to schedule for October .
I'm glad that you're in contact with an orthopedic surgeon. Things will be intense for a while as Bailee is recovering, but she will recover quickly. The most critical things during her recovery will be keeping her from picking at her stitches right after the surgery, and following the surgeon's post-surgery instructions to the letter so that she does not injure herself during her recovery and rehabilitation. Keep us posted! Here is one more informative link:

01 Medial Luxating Patella - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

AmberH 07-11-2014 08:14 PM
Penny has LPs. Her right leg is worse off than her left. The vet did not recommend surgery. While one is worse, neither are horrible. He said, often times, surgery can do more harm than good. He said, as she gains muscle tone around her knee, the issue will probably go away. I had a feeling she had them but I wanted confirmation. That was over a month ago and she's not shown signs since.

I'm interested in hearing what others who do not opt for surgery are doing for their dogs. Are you giving supplements to prevent issues down the road?

Lovetodream88 07-12-2014 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberH (Post 4463480)
Penny has LPs. Her right leg is worse off than her left. The vet did not recommend surgery. While one is worse, neither are horrible. He said, often times, surgery can do more harm than good. He said, as she gains muscle tone around her knee, the issue will probably go away. I had a feeling she had them but I wanted confirmation. That was over a month ago and she's not shown signs since.

I'm interested in hearing what others who do not opt for surgery are doing for their dogs. Are you giving supplements to prevent issues down the road?
In my opinion your vet is wrong many many dogs get LP surgery and go on to live much more comfortable happy years. It's not about how bad the LP is but if your dog is in pain. LP can also lead to ACL tears.

ladyjane 07-12-2014 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberH (Post 4463480)
Penny has LPs. Her right leg is worse off than her left. The vet did not recommend surgery. While one is worse, neither are horrible. He said, often times, surgery can do more harm than good. He said, as she gains muscle tone around her knee, the issue will probably go away. I had a feeling she had them but I wanted confirmation. That was over a month ago and she's not shown signs since.

I'm interested in hearing what others who do not opt for surgery are doing for their dogs. Are you giving supplements to prevent issues down the road?
Your vet is correct. The orthopedic specialist I use does not recommend surgery on LP if it is an adult dog. While LP leads to CCL tears, often the ligament is already worn and if they repair the knee, the ligament is still in a weakened state and often will tear leading to yet another surgery that is hard on the pup and the owner has to pay for yet another surgery. LP that is not causing issues does not need to be repaired ... I have pups with LP and they will not be operated on unless the ligament tears and then I will have the ligament and knee repaired at one time.

Wylie's Mom 07-13-2014 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4463846)
Your vet is correct. The orthopedic specialist I use does not recommend surgery on LP if it is an adult dog. While LP leads to CCL tears, often the ligament is already worn and if they repair the knee, the ligament is still in a weakened state and often will tear leading to yet another surgery that is hard on the pup and the owner has to pay for yet another surgery. LP that is not causing issues does not need to be repaired ... I have pups with LP and they will not be operated on unless the ligament tears and then I will have the ligament and knee repaired at one time.
This is very informative and interesting, thanks for posting this...I don't know if many people are aware of this info. Do you think the mindset has only recently changed to this? Bc prior, it seems the school of thought was to do the LP once they exhibit symptoms (ie leg lifting). So theoretically, I should've / could've waited until a ligament tear before getting Wylie's LP? On his L knee though...it was *so* bad when they got in there...I wonder if they even could've repaired it had I waited...? I'm not sure, there is no way to tell of course.

Lovetodream88 07-13-2014 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4463979)
This is very informative and interesting, thanks for posting this...I don't know if many people are aware of this info. Do you think the mindset has only recently changed to this? Bc prior, it seems the school of thought was to do the LP once they exhibit symptoms (ie leg lifting). So theoretically, I should've / could've waited until a ligament tear before getting Wylie's LP? On his L knee though...it was *so* bad when they got in there...I wonder if they even could've repaired it had I waited...? I'm not sure, there is no way to tell of course.
I think if it's causing constant pain it becomes a different story but that's just my opinion.

ladyjane 07-13-2014 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4464194)
I think if it's causing constant pain it becomes a different story but that's just my opinion.

LP is not typically a painful condition. The only time there is discomfort is when the knee slides out.

Lovetodream88 07-13-2014 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4464290)
LP is not typically a painful condition. The only time there is discomfort is when the knee slides out.
Yeah but if it's happening constantly every time they move then that I think would just about be considered constant pain.

ladyjane 07-14-2014 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4464296)
Yeah but if it's happening constantly every time they move then that I think would just about be considered constant pain.
That would be a rare case. All of my personal pups have LP and none of them have any issues at all. I have yet to have one that had major issues...usually the ones who do are puppies and those need to be repaired. Once they are repaired the risk of a torn CCL is limited.

Lovetodream88 07-14-2014 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4464399)
That would be a rare case. All of my personal pups have LP and none of them have any issues at all. I have yet to have one that had major issues...usually the ones who do are puppies and those need to be repaired. Once they are repaired the risk of a torn CCL is limited.
I am not sure what was Callie's issue then because she was hurting could not jump anymore and stuff but there were some issues with her knee cap when they got in there so maybe that's why it was different with her.

Saltypearl 07-14-2014 09:22 AM
Wow...I am finding these replies confusing!! They are from one end to the other!!

Some of you are for the surgery, and others are not?

I see that each day is different with the LP. some days are worse than others. Today for example, Bailee has not lifted either leg.

Not sure what to do?? Second opinion??

GracieJane 07-14-2014 10:39 AM
Only you can decide. I was telling myself that I was perhaps overreacting as I watched Gracie a few weeks ago. As she walked by, her leg went out and she fell:(. It became an easy decision.

With our last dog, also a Yorkie, it was never that bad, and surgery was never discussed.

Keep an eye out and reevaluate in 30 days. It is not an easy choice, but it is not life or death this week.

ladyjane 07-14-2014 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltypearl (Post 4463325)
Just got back from the vet. Bailee is a 4 in her right leg and a 3-4 in her left leg.
Our vet works with an orthopedic surgeon, and she will contact him. Bailee will need both knees done at the same time .
I am going to schedule for October .
Personally, I would not have my vet speak with a surgeon. My vet refers people out to SEE the ortho surgeon.

As I suggested earlier, if I were you, I would find a board certified surgeon and make an appointment for a consultation.

www.acvs.org

Lovetodream88 07-14-2014 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltypearl (Post 4464512)
Wow...I am finding these replies confusing!! They are from one end to the other!!

Some of you are for the surgery, and others are not?

I see that each day is different with the LP. some days are worse than others. Today for example, Bailee has not lifted either leg.

Not sure what to do?? Second opinion??
I would go more with what Ladyjane says she knows more about it then me and maybe see what an orthopedic surgeon thinks.

Saltypearl 07-16-2014 06:08 AM
So for the last 2 days I have not seen Bailee lift either leg?? What's up with that?? Is this an intermittent problem??

I am not going to rush into any decision. I will however make an appointment with the ortho surgeon, for him to do an eval before any surgery will be done.
My vet is the one who "graded" each leg.

I have been reading your replies and I do not want to wait to long until something else tears. Bailee does not seem to be in any pain, and runs around like usual.

seechell 07-21-2014 05:26 PM
Hi, I'm new to the community. I'm looking to purchase a yorkie and you mentioned in a previous post that you bought your Bella from Eldon Plank. You also mentioned she has LP. Is that genetic?

Lovetodream88 07-21-2014 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seechell (Post 4468507)
Hi, I'm new to the community. I'm looking to purchase a yorkie and you mentioned in a previous post that you bought your Bella from Eldon Plank. You also mentioned she has LP. Is that genetic?
It is

seechell 07-21-2014 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4468511)
It is
Thanks for the quick response

pstinard 07-22-2014 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seechell (Post 4468507)
Hi, I'm new to the community. I'm looking to purchase a yorkie and you mentioned in a previous post that you bought your Bella from Eldon Plank. You also mentioned she has LP. Is that genetic?
I guess this question is addressed to me. Luxating patella is genetic in the sense that small breeds of dogs are more susceptible, but for all that is known about canine genetics, the mode of inheritance and the degree of heritability of luxating patella are unknown. Here is a quote from a recent review (Genetics of Canine Hip Dysplasia and Other Orthopaedic Traits, by Gert J. Breur, George Lust and Rory J. Todhunter, 2001, in The Genetics of the Dog. http://gymnasium441.ru/files/ebook_s...1.pdf#page=274) :

Patella luxation

Patella luxation is common and may occur in lateral or medial direction. Affected dogs may be asymptomatic or present with a lameness. The aetiology is unknown but morphological changes in the hip may precipitate the disease (Putnam, 1968; Piermattei and Flo, 1997). Toy breeds seem to be at particular risk (Table 10.4; Priester, 1972; Hayes, 1994; LaFond et al., 1998). The mode of inheritance is unknown.

Luxating patella can crop up in the offspring of dogs that have not shown luxating patella in their lineages for many generations. On the other hand, no responsible breeder would knowingly breed a dog that has luxating patella. Bella came from good genetic stock, and just happened to be one of the unlucky ones with luxating patella. She has had no other health issues, was easy to potty train, and has a good personality. Eldon takes good care of his dogs and I would recommend him to people who are looking for a Yorkie in the central Illinois area.

Lovetodream88 07-22-2014 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seechell (Post 4468507)
Hi, I'm new to the community. I'm looking to purchase a yorkie and you mentioned in a previous post that you bought your Bella from Eldon Plank. You also mentioned she has LP. Is that genetic?
When I looked up the breeder I found a few red flags. Like that he breeds three different types of dogs and has 12 breeding females ( that seems like a lot to me) and I saw where someone had posted on here they got a silky yorkie mixed breed from him. You might want to check this out http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...e-breeder.html

pstinard 07-22-2014 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4468835)
When I looked up the breeder I found a few red flags. Like that he breeds three different types of dogs and has 12 breeding females ( that seems like a lot to me) and I saw where someone had posted on here they got a silky yorkie mixed breed from him. You might want to check this out http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...e-breeder.html
Eldon breeds Yorkies and Pomeranians. (The third breed escapes me at the moment.) He is definitely old school, but he treats his dogs well, and I saw his facilities. The person asking the question lives in Los Angeles, and the logistics of shipping a dog from central Illinois to Los Angeles would be horrendous, so I PM'd them the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America breeders listing for California (Dog Breeders Map List- The Yorkshire Terrier Club of America).


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