Cushing's disease
 

Hi everyone,

I haven't been on YT for a while…

I was in car accident 3years ago, and I was injured in multiple places.
worst of all, I got meniere's disease. I was under a lot of stress from not only losing hearing, but also having constant noise in my ear.
I think that's when cheeky started feeling stressed about me being sick. She started showing symptoms of cushing's around september of last year. it started with increased appetite, and drinking, followed by losing hair, panting, snoring, muscle weakness… I searched online and found the some homeopathic remedies which includes cushex, flax SDG lignans, melatonin, turmeric, cur cumin, sea kelp, and organic immune support accompanied by law diet. After a month, her symptoms improved such as no more snoring, panting, excessive drinking, and her muscle mass got better. I still wanted to take her to hospital to run some tests for cushing's. I took her to endocrinologist in animal medical center, and although he was very nice and knowledgeable, he completely dismissed her improvement with homeopathic treatments. He said that any improvement I thought she had was just placebo! He laughed and said "if natural remedies work, everyone would be using them." We decided to do blood work, urine culture, ultrasound, and LDDS. Her blood work and urine test showed high protein in her urine, and subnormal thyroid level. other than that everything else was normal. LDDS test came in today and her numbers are pre:18.9, 4hr:1.3, 8hr:2.9. with both LDDS & ultra sounds(showing enlarged liver and adrenal glen) he concluded that she has pituitary dependent cushings. Now, the doctor wants to try either lysodren or trilostane with her. From what I read they are both very toxic and have many side effects… If I had to give her medication, I though she can start with anipryl which seems much safer than the other two. Is there anyone who has tried anipryl with baby? any suggestions or advices would be much appreciated… I'm taking her to my acupuncturist next week to help her with her stress level… At this point, I'm willing to try anything as long as there's no crazy side effects. I feel so guilty for making her sick…
thank you for reading my post

I'm sorry to hear about all your troubles & hope you are doing better now. I had my Lillymae on the Lysodren & it didn't work so well for her so we switched her to the Anapryl & she did much better on it. FYI the Pituitary tumors can be shrunk with chemo & chemo is not much more as far as expense compared to other cushings meds. I'll be Praying for both of you.

Thank you for your kind words.
Did Lillymae get good result with chemo?

No she did not as she was too far progressed when I found out about chemo.

:(
I'm glad that anapryl worked for her.
supposedly anapryl is not as effective as other medication(but much less side effects!!!)

Need to correct myself here. LillyMae did not have Chemo.

It is my understanding that the Anapryl only works for about 40% of dogs BUT if it works, it works. Anapryl was originaly developed for treatment of Cushing & later used for senility.

My Wylie has Atypical Cushings and has been on Lysodren for about 4+ years now (he was 4 when diagnosed, is now 9). After the ramp up period, he then started to take it 3x a week - MWF, and that's all. He has never had a single side effect.

These meds are indeed toxic but remember, they're not taken at the same levels as chemo is, not at all. If they were taken at those levels, these dogs would be very sick. Ask your vet about anapryl, certainly, but also try not to worry to terribly much about the possibility of using lysodren or the others.

Please keep us posted on your kiddo, and I hope everything goes smoothly! I know Cushings is a scary and very complicated diagnosis so it can be really tough at first - but hang in there. Just fyi, medication titration can take a LOT of time / trial and error - so hang in there if it drags on for a while. :)

Thank you
I'm glad that Wylie is doing great with meds.
Have his pot belly & hair loss improved at all?
I'm just little frustrated that doctor didn't believe there's any chance that homeopathic treatment can be an option. I wish there's a natural way to fight this disease or at least combine both homeo & med…

I just had a dog undergo an MRI of the brain to rule out tumors. It is my understanding that pituitary tumors need radiation daily for a month, five days a week, to shrink. I don't recall my neurologist mentioning that chemo can shrink pituitary tumors.

OP - use the drugs the doc recommends. Good luck.

I think you are rite. It was almost 2 yrs ago & we were at WSU for my Sparky who has Lymphoma to have his Chemo when we talked with the Dr about it. Lots going on at that time.

thank you
I'll discuss with the doctor regarding which med will be best for cheeky on Monday. Even with 40% window, I'd like to try Anipryl first. Meanwhile, I'm giving her homeopathic treatments.

He didn't have a pot belly at all, but did have a lot of fur loss. With the help of the Melatonin, his fur has come back :)!

I've spoke to the Vet,and I asked him if it would be ok to start the treatment with Anipryl, since it has less side effects. He doesn't think it works for even 30% of dogs… He wants to start with Lysodren right away. I understand that he's an expert, but i really want to give Anipryl chance before we try stronger med. What should I do?

I would take the vet's advice. He has experience and knowledge that should not be ignored.

I understand the side effects are temporary and some have none at all. Don't compromise her health by going with a less effective drug just because of temporary side effects.

Just my opinion... that's what I'd do with my pups. Good luck with whatever you decide, and do keep us update. I'll keep your pup in my prayers.

You could either take the vet's advice and just give Lysodren a try (this is what my Wylie is on, btw) -or- tell him you want to see if your dog is one of those 30% for whom anipryl works.

I've been trying to persuade vet to prescribe aniprly for cheeky, but he's so sure that it won't work for her…:(
I'm seeing the vet this coming thursday and I have no choice, but to start the treatment with lysodren. I'm praying that it'll be easy on her body & work for her…

No, you DO have a choice. This is YOUR dog, not his. You can either tell him you want to try it, period, or you can go to another vet who is not a control freak. Your vet should NOT be this adamant about anipryl when it does have a chance of working - it's rather bizarre!

I agree with Ann, you have a choice & a say in your babies treatment . There is NO way your vet can say if a med is rite for any animal without trying it. If the Anipryl is what you want to try 1st then you need to tell him that & don't take no for an answer. Anipryl was 1st used for cushings treatment so I don't understand how any vet can say they know it will not work when every case is diff & it does work best for some, as in the case of my LillyMae.

Thank you for your comments, I needed that(to be firm with the vet)
I guess I annoyed him big time when I first met him.
I wrote down all homeopathic remedies cheeky's been taking and my observation of her prognosis(about 3month). I also wrote down all the tests I wanted her to take. as well as the treatment options. I also asked him bunch of questions. I wasn't "just listen & follow" type… I didn't mean to annoy him, but rather I wanted what's best for my baby. when I asked him about anipryl, he said that it'll be waste of time and money. He's very knowledgeable with cushing's, and I just don't want to rub him wrong way… I'll see him on Thursday and I'll tell him that I'll give Anipryl chance and that's that. Hope he won't get too upset about me not following his advise.

Finally spoke with the vet, and he was nice enough to talk to me for about an hour explaining everything regarding treatments.
According to the vet, Anipryl work for microscopic scale of central pituitary gland which very small number of dogs have issues with. He explained that about 70% of problems which occurs with lysodren are done by vet prescribing wrong amount of medication & period of time which can result addison's disease. He said that he had about 60% of success during initial phase(6 days) with lysodren, which is pretty good. Of course he explained about toxicity of lysodren, and prescribed prednisone in case of emergency. She's starting with 125mg of lysodren a day for a week, and then she'll have her ACTH stim test done. He asked me to monitor for clinical signs such as
reduction in appetite, thirst, urination, panting… Funny thing is that regardless of his disapproval of homeopathic treatments I've been giving her, most of her symptoms improved except appetite with homeopathic treatments.:p
PS: He told me that there's super medication which works like 99%, but its like million $$$:eek: Also, there's animal brain surgeons in europe, but not in US:(

Glad you seem to be feeling good about where you're heading with the treatment regimen. Like I mentioned before, my Wylie is on Lyso and has never had a single effect from it.

Oh also, he should've given you a prescription for steroid pills - for emergency as you're ramping up on the Lyso...did he give you that? This is bc of the risk of going too far w/ the cortisol-mitigating meds; if you go too far, you'll see symptoms of too LITTLE cortisol in the system - so then you emergently give the steroid pill. I think our doc sent us home w/ 10mg pills, which we never had to use btw.

:)
I decided to have faith that she'll be fine.
He perscribed prednisone(steroid) 3 x 5mg (give 1/4 pill).
I'll keep posting her progress.
thank you:D

Cheeky had her ACTH stim test done last wednesday and her results were
Pre:14
Post:28.5
Doctor increased dose from 125mg once a day to twice a day.
So far, I don't see much improvements on her symptoms…:(
I'm just worried that her snoring got little worse and she's been having dry cough since she's been on Lysodren.
She's getting another ACTH stim test tomorrow.
We'll be getting test every week until her # are in norm range.
Hope she's on her way to recovery(managing the disease)…

EVERY week, holy cow!!!

Is your vet experienced w/ Cushings dogs? When changing a lysodren dose, the protocol is wait 6 weeks for the med to affect changes, then you test...then you change the med again if needed, and wait to test for another 6 weeks.

As far as not seeing changes yet, remember that Cortisol has been raging through the body for a good long time now, and that changes things in the body quite a lot. It will take some time to see changes as the body slowly adjusts and recovers. The effects of cortisol are systemic, so it takes quite a bit for the body to recover. Hang in there, it will happen :).

Funny you mentioned it.
I was thinking the same that meds should take some time for body to show any changes(meds works residually in body).
However, my doc(who's very well experienced with cushing's) said that week is enough to see changes and taking med for long period like 4~6week is one of main reason why many dongs tips over to addison… … He rather start with low dose with short interval. Cheeky took test today, so I'll find out her result tonight.
I met a fellow YT member in AMC on monday with her 7month old baby girl penny who needed heart surgery:( & I met her again today and penny's surgery went well and she's on her way to recovery!:) It was delightful surprise to meet fellow YT member in person.
I"m not on YT often, but it feels so good to have community of people who care for each other and that they are there for you when you needed help. Thank you YT & all the YT members!!!

Sending some love to you and Cheeky.

I know how hard it is waiting for the treatment to take effect, but you are doing all you can for now, and even if the dose isn't perfect yet, it is helping some. Good luck, and keep us posted.

Thank you~

Ahhhh… ….
I just got test result back last night and her # are
pre: <0.2
post: <0.2

Now she has to be off meds for one week and another test…
It's like merry go round:confused:
I just don't want her body to be stressed with all these constant changes...

Wow, that's crazy. I don't understand the numbers in ACTH stim, but weird that pre and post are the same :confused:

I'm going through similar frustrations with glucose testing on Meika, trying to dial in the proper insulin dose. I guess it all takes time.