Seizure
 

Hi..I'm new to Yorkie talk. My little guy had two seizures this week. His vet started him on pheno and I'm looking for some advise. I'm a mess. He's just a little guy..weighing in at 3.8 pounds. I'm so scared and upset. Any help would be appreciated.

Did your vet say what he thought was causing the seizures? Did he recommend a neurologist?

I know you must be terrified. I would be.

There are many people here that have dealt with these issues and they will be along to help you with advice and ideas.

I just wanted to post and let you know I'm praying for your baby. Hugs!

Thank you so much. He thinks its epilepsy. He's only 10 months old. Ruled out liver shunt which is what the vet on call (not my vet) was sure it was. He is a little dopey from meds, but I'm having a real hard time dealing. Scared to death I'm gonna lose him.

I know several here who have pups with seizure problems and control it with meds. Don't consider this a death sentence, ok? That doesn't help either of you. He'll sense if you are upset and worried. Hang in there. :)

I'm trying. He is on meds. It's the second day. I guess I just need to hear from others in my same situation.

How did they rule out Liver Shunt? Did he have a Bile Acid Test done?

Yes. I had an emergency vet who was on call and he had me so upset...I felt like there was no hope. My vet did the test and talked to an endocrinologist about the results and he felt it was probably epilepsy. So trying meds for 60 days

Did you use any flea/heartworm products/vaccines on him just prior to the 1st seizure? Some products can cause neurological issues.

Sometimes younger pups can outgrow having seizures. Many dogs are maintained on meds and live a relatively normal life. I know seizures can be scary, but they're probably scarier for him, so you can help him by being calm and reassuring to him when they do occur.

Does the medication seem to be helping him? It can take some time and trial and error to get him at therapeutic levels, where his seizure activity is minimized and keep him where he can also function.

I am sorry you and him are having to go through this. Things will get better in time.

We have a few members with pups who have seizures. I sent a message to one to notify her of this thread. Hopefully she can help you out.

Epilepsy is not a death sentence! If that is what it is you will just need to find out what med works best for him. Personally, I would do a consult with a vet neurologist.

Try to think positive...I know it is scary to have a sick pup but try hard to relax. If you are nervous and upset, it will rub off on him.

I will say a prayer for you and your pup. What is his name?

So glad you found YT...you will get lots of support here! :) Sometimes it is a bit quiet on the weekends...just hang in there.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I also found this website which I thought was interesting to read http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Graves.html

My 2 cents worth. Make sure they do all kind of blood test to rule out if it was something infectious (sorry spelling it's late here) to make sure your baby didn't eat anything and IF everything came back normal please take your baby to a neurologist or even a vet school near your area so they can do an MRI and a spinal tap then go from there.

Please keep us update!! my heart and prayers goes out to you and ur baby *hugss*

Just chiming in for support.

LadyJane did message some members who have experience with seizures.

I see that you are in Pennsylvania, anywhere near a vet school with a teaching hospital? I ask this because usually they have all the specialists on staff and are very much up to date on the latest methodologies. I like to utilize them for anything out of the ordinary for my pups.

It can take some time to get the dosage correct. In the mean time, try not to worry too much. Find an activity a "quiet" one you both enjoy.

There are specialists at Pitt and at Penn but I don't think you are close to either of them.

You might ask your vet for the closest board certified neurologist. The website with a directory is

American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine > Home

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Thank you all so much for all your comments and support. My little guys name is Webster. He weighs in at 3.8 pounds. He is such a sweetheart. He didn't have any vaccines or new meds. There was no indication. First one was very subtle, like coming out of anesthesia, second one full blown, I thought he was dying. I never saw one before. So I've been trying to stay calm. Saying lots of prayers. I tried to post pics, not sure it worked. Thanks to all. :love:

I see your pics in your album. Webster is just a doll baby!! No wonder he holds your heart in his paw. :)

Continued prayers, but I agree with everyone - I would look into a vet school and a neurologist if you can - might be able to get you some better answers. Just be patient though..tweeking for the right dosage on those meds may take time - hang in there!

I agree with the others--have thorough testing done and make absolutely sure it's epilepsy before treating with phenobarbitol. I haven't had a Yorkie with this problem but I did have a Siberian Husky with epilepsy a few years ago. The vet told me that once I started phenobarbitol, the Husky would have to be on it her entire life since withdrawal would lead to worse seizures than she had before. I ended up not treating her with phenobarbitol, and just holding and comforting her (and cleaning up her pee) after each seizure because relatively speaking, her seizures were not that severe. She had them about once every week or two...

I am also not a fan of phenobarbitol .. there are newer meds that are being used that have far less side effects.
That is why I suggested a specialist...and also as you said, so that they know exactly what they are treating.

My dog Teddy had his first seizure at about 9 months old. My vets didn't think much of it. He continued to have them every 7 or 8 months. After the 4th or so seizure, we were referred to a neurologist. Since all medical causes of seizures, including shunt, were ruled out, the neurologist recommended an MRI and spinal tap to rule out encephalitis, malformations of the brain, and hydrocephalus that also could be causing the seizures. Teddy had these tests and they were all normal. He was therefore diagnosed with epilepsy and also with a tremor disorder. These two problems are from different parts of the brain so it was felt that Teddy suffered hypoxia at birth or just after.

The neurologist did not decide to put Teddy on medication right then and there, but wanted me to email him with each seizure. Once he saw a video of Teddy having a seizure, he changed his mind and put him on medication right away because Teddy has severe generalized (grand mal) seizures that involve his whole brain. This means Teddy cannot see or hear or breathe very well when he has seizures. So we don't bother talking to him. Everyone says to talk calmly and lower the lights etc but the neurologist told me that those things might comfort me but not Teddy because he's out of it. LOL

Anyway Teddy has been on a drug called zonisamide for 2.5 years. Until last week, he was on a minimum dose. Zonisamide has none of the side effects of phenobarbital so Teddy's seizures are fairly well controlled without trading off his major organs. His seizures now have increased to about once a month and his dosage was increased. He and thousands of other dogs on these newer, safer, drugs are controlled while not trading off a good quality of life. I don't want my dog to have seizures, but if I have to medicate him to the point of destroying his organs or compromising his very happy state of being, then I'll put him to sleep first.

I choose to medicate my dog so that I didn't come home one day to a dog seizing with a 108 degree fever about to die. A dog that seizures for more than an hour will die. I know that this scenario is very unlikely with my dog because he is on medication and we are in very good contact with his neurologist on a regular basis.

My advice to you is this: If you can consult with a neurologist, you should seriously consider doing it. Your dog may or may not be a candidate for one of these newer and safer drugs. Your regular vet may have a handle on phenobarbital or seizures as a broad basic knowledge, but I assure you that none of these regular vets have a clue about zonisamide or another drug called keppra. They are not specialists, and in my view, really shouldn't be treating dogs for seizures and should be referring those cases out to a board certified neurologist.

Seizures are scary and they are hard to watch. I wish I could tell you that it gets easier, but for me it hasn't. But, thankfully, I don't think they bother Teddy. I keep him as safe as I can. He has no access to stairs when we are not with him. You might want to do the same for your seizure dog.

Best wishes.

For what it's worth, I found an article on supplementing with omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) to help in cases in which drugs are not enough to control epileptic seizures:

Scorza et al. 2009. Positive impact of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in a dog with drug-resistant epilepsy: A case study. Epilepsy and Behavior 15:527-528.

ScienceDirect.com - Epilepsy & Behavior - Positive impact of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in a dog with drug-resistant epilepsy: A case study

The article describes a Great Dane whose epilepsy was not completely controlled by phenobarbitol. The addition to the diet of only 2 grams of omega-3 fish oil per day (which isn't much for a dog the size of a Great Dane) reduced the frequency of seizures by 85%. I don't think that the article is behind a pay firewall, but just in case it is, I'll quote a few selected paragraphs below (fair usage):

Abstract

Epilepsy is the most common neurological disorder in both dogs and humans. Although the pharmacological options for treatment of epilepsies have increased, it has been reported that two-thirds of dogs with epilepsy are refractory to antiepileptic drug therapy. To our knowledge, there are no experimental studies in the literature that show an effect of omega-3 supplementation on epilepsy in dogs. Our case study describes the effectiveness of daily intake of a moderate amount of fish oil in a case of canine epilepsy.

Introduction

[..]

Epilepsy is [..] the most common chronic neurological disorders in dogs, with a prevalence of 0.5 to 5.7% [3]. In most dogs, recurrent seizures have no identifiable underlying cause, and these cases are classified as idiopathic [3]. It is important to note that two-thirds of canine epilepsy patients are refractory to therapy, despite the availability of new antiepileptic drugs [3], [4] and [5].

[..]

There is currently no evidence that omega-3 fatty acids, either alone or as add-on therapy, are therapeutic in canine epilepsy. This case report describes a substantial reduction in the frequency of bouts of idiopathic epilepsy affecting a female Great Dane when omega-3 fatty acids were added to marginally effective phenobarbital background therapy.

Case history

A 2-year-old female Great Dane with a history of recurrent seizures was brought to a veterinary neurologist. Tonic–clonic seizures occurred at a frequency of three times per month [..]. After a detailed physical and neurological examination, evaluation of hematology and serum biochemistry, and magnetic resonance imaging of the brain, the veterinarian diagnosed the condition as idiopathic epilepsy and began treatment aimed at seizure control. A trial therapy with phenobarbital (2.5 mg/kg, twice a day orally) failed to adequately control the seizures: after 8 weeks of treatment there remained two seizure episodes per month. Typically, potassium bromide is used to supplement phenobarbital in refractory cases. However, in this case, it was decided to supplement the dog’s diet with moderate amounts of fish oil (oral omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, 2 g/day). The frequency of the epileptic seizures markedly fell after 50 days of combination therapy with phenobarbital and omega-3 fatty acid. During the subsequent 18-month period, seizure frequency fell to one per 3 months, a reduction of about 85%.

Discussion

[..]

From an experimental point of view, we demonstrated previously that chronic treatment with omega-3 promotes neuroprotection and increases the number of parvalbumin-positive neurons in the hippocampus of rats with epilepsy, suggesting that omega-3 promotes plastic changes in the brain [9]. The case study reported here is compatible with this idea, and suggests that omega-3 intake may be an option for the treatment of epilepsy in dogs.

[..] It seems that the development of new therapeutic strategies like the addition of omega-3 fatty acids to more conventional treatments should be explored in the treatment of dogs with epilepsy. However, it is important to note that nutritional therapy (including omega-3 supplementation) is not a substitute for conventional anticonvulsant medications.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Thank you for sharing Teddy's story, Cathy.

The neurologist that Teddy has in Boston has told me that there is no dietary regime that can help. If giving a flipping fish oil was all it took, I'd have done it a long time ago. Please, OP, go for the drugs and not some holistic garbage. We had a member here who did some holistic stuff and poor Elvis had like 12 seizures. Poor thing.

Linda, you know it's hard for me to talk about Teddy and his challenges but people need to know its NOT ok to not medicate for seizures.

I totally agree. Very scary thought. Continued seizures cause brain injury...there is no way I would allow my pup to be unprotected/unmedicated. Thank you so much...His story is a good one to share... he is SO lucky to have you.

Agreed. The scholarly article on omega-3 oil refers to its use ONLY as a supplement to seizure-controlling drugs, and NOT as a replacement. (Just want to make that clear for the OP!) Do what the vet (hopefully a specialist!) recommends.

Wow! Do you think this works for people? My DD has breakthrough seizures... about 4-5 a month. Increasing her Dilantin makes her too dysfunctional. I will ask her doctor about it! Thank you sooo much for posting this.

Research in humans is preliminary, but promising. One research article from 2011 indicated an average 16% reduction in seizures in people whose epilepsy wasn't completely controlled by medication, but the authors emphasize that the group under study was small, and more work with larger groups and over a longer period of time needs to be done to confirm this. Your doctor should have access to the most recent research, so please ask your doctor, follow what he recommends, and don't add any supplements to your DD's diet without your doctor's approval.

Waiting for the doc to call me back now! Thank you soooo much!:D

Amanda's Doctor just called me back...He couldn't find any research on it but bc it's a dietary supplement, it would be okay to give it to her. He's doubtful that it will help, but he said it won't hurt to try.

I hope it helps Amanda.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Prayers for Amanda!