Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4109224)

and it just scratches the surface....this is not just ME....this is what makes the difference between a BYB, a puppy mill and a reputable, responsible, ethical breeder. We KNOW who the daddy is...we know his pedigree forward and backward...we know which dogs behind him throw big puppies, little puppies, cotton coats, silky coats, pissy personalities, adorable little snuggle bugs, and we kow where the instances of genetic disease are hiding, waiting to be paired up with the females pedigree.....we KNOW exactly when they were bred, how long they stayed tied....we know because we planned it...and we HELD the mated pair so one wouldnt hurt the other.....then we calculated the due date....we know how to estimate "wiggle room' before the due date and the after the due date. We know how many babies we are going to have, and we know if they are positioned correctly....we know if they will fit thru the pelvic ring....and if there is any question at all, we c-section momma BEFORE we get in over our heads and risk loosing momma as well as the entire litter. We have special rooms for our mommas and babies, and a week or so BEFORE the due date, our houses go on lock down...no people running all over the house tormenting or upsetting momma....she is isolated and she is kept calm and peaceful and warm....we have all our delivery equipment that we need, right at hand....we even have things that we MAY need and never use....rather have it and not need it, than not have it at all. We do not go away and leave momma with whoever will check in on her....MAYBE....every so often....and we do not load a pregnant dog up and remove her from her known environment where she feels safe and calm....our lives are essentially relagated to "homebound" during this time....because that is what we must do to give momma and babies the best chance at survival they can possibley have. This just scratches the surface of what we all do as dedicated, devoted breeders....then there is all the details following the birth of the litter....mommas must be monitored....babies must be monitored, minute by minute.....logs kept......and if anything changes, we MOVE....we move immediately....we do not wait.....we already have EVERYTHING we need to help this enfant....and we KNOW how to do the procedures needed to keep this baby alive.... People think there is nothing to this breeding stuff...it is natural, it is instinctive and dogs do it all the time all by thmselves...I can do this and make a little money....WRONG!!! You will NOT be making money, if you are doing this right.....you MAY break even, but most likely, it is going to cost you so much.....this is NOT fun and games.....this is heart breaking and gut wrenching....PLEASE spay and neuter your pets....dont make little innocent babies and willing, innocent and devoted mommas, pay with their lives, so your kids can see the miracle of birth or so you can sell a puppy for a few silver coins.

Originally Posted by LILBIT1 (Post 4109238)

Very sad.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4109347)

:thumbup: Missed Gemy's post the first time I guess due to my smallish windows. Her post is still more required reading.

I stay out of this section because I can't add anything but when I see some names posting in it, I have to read what you say just for general information in case I run into someone in a waiting room, etc., who starts to share they are trying to decide to breed their female or not. Things like this give one some powerful tools to mention they will need to know, have, buy, do and such that hopefully will discourage the casual breeder wannabe who wants to put any given female with any given male. Thanks for educating us all so we can use that information however we can to help dogs.

P. S. Why didn't Gemy's post print out in blue up above mine? I checked for the "quick reply"?[/QUOTE]

You have to click the 'Quote' button on the reply you want to include.

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 4109352)

Usually I just click the quick reply button on the right for the blue reply to appear as in this case.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4109155)

I am not sure how profound it was; but it certainly contained many lessons for those who think breeding is just a laissez-faire part of life.

Let me elaborate:

1. Don't travel with a very pregnant bitch on Dec 30th, and stay in environments that are far less than ideal .... such as a MOTEL.

2. I never have hesitated if a bitch goes over one hour with unproductive labour; off to the vet we go! And yes some books say 2hrs, some 3hrs, but I will NOT risk my bitch's life. And let us not forget the travel time to the vet, and perhaps the wait time. Also the pre heat the car stage, the arrangements for newborn pups.

3. If you have had mutiple birth deaths, a necropsy might just save the life of the remaining pup or at least tell you if there is a high likelihood of internal organ damage, and this pup will simply not make it!

4. There is quite simply no such thing as being over prepared. You need to stock up on all the supplies you need well in advance, including a puppy whelping formulae. And hey don't forget about your family, they will need to eat too; so pre stock your freezer with home made dinners that your family can microwave, while you are in the whelping room. Also don't forget yourself. I do in the winter time anyway make up a few day supply of oatmeal, that I can qquickly heat up in microwave and add fruit and nuts too for a nutritous and sustaining breakfast. Homemade soups in the fridge/freezer for lunch etc.

5. Of course let us NOT FORGET the PRE BREEDING tests that should be done; particularly STD's. Brucellosis.

6. Elimination of newborns is very important to go 36 hours without is of high concern.

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4109434)

Hopefully there was an autopsy done so she will know without supposition, what was responsible for this pups death. When she gets her diagnosis, then she can back track, and see at precisely what point in the development of the embryo, things went south. Then she can pull up her records and see what if anything, the dam received or did during that week- two week period of time. This is the benefit of keeping detailed records and following up with necropsy especially with the death of the entire litter, with obvious malformations, etc.. I know alot of people do not opt for necropsies....but with breeders, these are invaluable tools that must be utilized in order to prevent or aviod the same problem from occuring again in your future litters. This is information for anyone that has this event take place, not just this OP.... Regardless of the cause/reason a baby dies, while there may very well be absolutely NOTHING we could possible have done to save that baby, all we CAN do is be prepared with ALL the supplies we will need, available and on hand, to try to save the baby. And in MY opinion, if there is a critical malformation that is definately going to cause the death of that baby, regardless of what efforts are made, then I would opt to euthanize the enfant, rather than prolong the inevitable.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4109155)

I am not sure how profound it was; but it certainly contained many lessons for those who think breeding is just a laissez-faire part of life.

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4109434)

Hopefully there was an autopsy done so she will know without supposition, what was responsible for this pups death. When she gets her diagnosis, then she can back track, and see at precisely what point in the development of the embryo, things went south. Then she can pull up her records and see what if anything, the dam received or did during that week- two week period of time. This is the benefit of keeping detailed records and following up with necropsy especially with the death of the entire litter, with obvious malformations, etc.. I know alot of people do not opt for necropsies....but with breeders, these are invaluable tools that must be utilized in order to prevent or aviod the same problem from occuring again in your future litters. This is information for anyone that has this event take place, not just this OP.... Regardless of the cause/reason a baby dies, while there may very well be absolutely NOTHING we could possible have done to save that baby, all we CAN do is be prepared with ALL the supplies we will need, available and on hand, to try to save the baby. And in MY opinion, if there is a critical malformation that is definately going to cause the death of that baby, regardless of what efforts are made, then I would opt to euthanize the enfant, rather than prolong the inevitable.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4109594)

So I have finally found out how to use Skype. And what does this have to do with this posting.

Well, it is an amazing tool, and you can videocam conference thingie with it.

So we have a very important meeting via Skype; and one of our breeder participants had pups 5wks ago today. She attended.

She with her dark circles, is in the Whelping room; with her and Mom's pups all around her. The breeder has only left the room for the most basic of necessities. So even with large breed puppies, the breeder the "good" ones feel on call 24/7. Do we risk hypoglycemia? No not really, But cold pups for sure, or pups that fail to latch; and our litters tend to be large, so we need to rotate on the nipple. And supplement feed. We weigh 2x per day, and or at the minimum once per day.

And then there is the very heartbreaking fact that sometimes despite all you do, the Mom (who doesn't mean it) sits on a puppy and kills the pup. Even at 4 wks old they are not yet out of danger from that.

Momma requires lots of feedings (she is a big dog), and also we often times literally have to beg the Mom to go outside to eliminate. Mom does not want to leave the litter for one second, I've seen a bitch hold all elimination for 36 hours!!!!!!!!

There is no way in hell that I would take a pregnant near term bitch to a motel, with a high chance she might go in labour. That would be my personal idea of hell.

Or another nightmare would be, a natural disaster that prevents me getting my dogs into the vet. Hurricanes, tornadoes, meteor hits; you get the idea.