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Prayers for Cassie. |
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There are different levels of severity of AAI. If these or any other new/odd behaviors appear or get any worse, then it is very much an emergency. If the pressure in her head is not relieved, it could have a very bad outcome, very bad. Prednisone will reduce the swelling in the brain, and Omeprazole (Prilosec for humans) will slow the production of CSF (Cerebral Spinal Fluid) in dogs. Write these down and get to an ERVet. I'm not sure if all vets are aware of using Omeprazole in dogs, it's an extra-label drug (not approved for use in dogs to reduce the production of CSF). Two more common results of increased fluid on the brain are blindness and loss of the ability to breathe. This happens when the pressure from the fluid hits on specific nerves in the brain. These will normally resolve with medication. So if she's acting like she cannot see, or is having difficulty breathing, rush her to an ERVet right away. I'd make a plan now just in case, pack a bag to take with you, so you can fly out the door to the vet. I'd go to the closest one, get her stabilized, then go on to the ER at VSH, unless VSH is the closest one. I am sorry, but I think waiting till Friday is a very risky decision, especially with her new symptoms. And to be honest with you, if this was my dog, I'd go to VSH ER now. I'll keep you and your little one in my prayers... Hugs, |
OP, I am with your vet on this one. It sounds like she has had the same issues for some time and no one noticed them. I am a bit surprised because the head bobbing would be a clue for a vet to suspect a neuro issue....unless I have misread this and this is a new thing. Unless I am reading this wrong, I would definitely not rush to do anything. You have time to get her properly diagnosed and come up with a plan. Just handle her with kid gloves...sounds like you already do that. :) |
I am so very sorry that your Sweet Cassie is having these problems. I will certainly say prayers for your baby. |
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No, I'm very sorry if I gave you the impression that this was a new condition. She has been doing this head bobbing thing for as long as I can remember, maybe the full five years I've had her, or close to it. It's definitely not new behavior. The ER doctor discussed the use of omeprazole with me and said she recommended trying it, but wanted to t/w my vet to get her approval. I still haven't heard from her. Still waiting. I think I will call now. I definitely will monitor her eyesight and breathing. I am about 5 minutes from the CVS ER, so I would take her there first. I can be out the door in 3 seconds. VSH is more than an hour away, I would not take her there first if there were a true emergency. Too far away. CVS saved her life many times and I trust them, and they are five minutes away. But of course any risky planned ahead things, I would certainly go to VHS. Thanks so much for your concern, and well, for everything. Blessings, Shellie Shellie |
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you got it right. This is NOT a new condition. Yes, you are right, I do handle her with kid gloves, like a china doll as someone else posted. I too am surprised that no one said anything about her head bobbing. I don't think it is very pronounced, but I do think it is noticeable. Oh, well, there is one vet who makes house visits and who came to the house and mentioned the hydrocephalus thing, and said I should go to VHS for a neuro work up. He knows the neurologist there and told me to give him a call when I wanted to go there for the neuro exam and he would talk with the doctor who was his classmate, and tell him to treat us with extra special care. I had every intention to do that, but with so many other health issues coming up- with me (I was sick for many months with bronchitis, my dad- needed a pacemaker and was hospitalized, Muffin needed 19 teeth extracted, and then Cassie getting her four teeth extracted and coming down with pneumonia-I haven't had a moment to breathe or a moments peace. All this went on for several months, and there just wasn't an opportunity to go there yet. Looks like I'll get there soon enough now, though. I'm going to call my Vet now. Will update all as soon as I talk with her. Blessings, Shellie |
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Oh my....I can only imagine how you must feel right now. You are in my prayers to keep her safe and for you to make the right decisions. Like someone else said, she has done ok for 5 years so I am sure she will be ok a bit longer till you can make a decision as to what to do next. Louise :animal-pa:animal-pa:animal-pa:animal-pa |
I'm so very sorry to read this and know first hand how terrifing AA is. Zhoie was 3 Jan. 25th, but had AA surgery at NCSU on Dec. 1st. It was the scariest thing I have ever done in my life. Knowing I was taking her life in my hands and making a decision, one that she may not come off the table from. But, I knew in my heart, I had to give her a chance at life. She did wonderful. Don't get me wrong, it is a major surgery, but, they are amazing little troopers and their will to live is astonishing. Everytime I look at her, my heart just swells and I know I made the right choice. Had it went the otherway, I still know in my heart...I gave her a chance at life and I couldn't live with it any other way...speaking for us. Only you, can reach down and make the decision for your girl. Sending prayers for sweet Cassie and prayers for you to find strength in your decision. |
Update--sorry this is so long Hello all, I spoke to Tamera, and she spoke with the ER doc. First she says not to panic, Cassie has been like this for her whole life and she says she does not believe it is an emergency. The issue with her liver she believes to be minor, and will retest her bile acids in her office where there is much less stress. She says because they were elevated both times she believes they could be elevated due to stress. For the hydrocephalus she states she is willing to try to see if the omeprazole helps her with a trial of several weeks. The AAI, she wanted to know what I would do with the information from an MRI if I got it. Would I consider surgery? She said there are other things we can do before surgery, like PT or chiropractic medicine, or other modalities. It will not cure her, but it would strengthen her neck muscles. I told her I would definitely do the surgery if I were convinced she would survive, and there would be a good outcome, and she would gain many years of quality life. She told me she is going to consult with other vets to see what is the best course of action. She also stated that I should go to VSH, but to wait for her recommendations as to which doctors to see. I would be willing to do both, the wholistic route, with physical therapy and maybe some chiropractic if it is not too dangerous to her neck, and also explore possible surgery to see if it were possible with her, and weigh the benefits and risks to see if it were worth it. She is also going to talk with Dr. Feinberg after he sees the consultant on Wednesday and the look at the X-rays. So we are in a waiting game so far. I am doing the china doll treatment and handling Cassie with kid gloves. I remembered while talking with Tamera, that when I first got Cassie, she was so squiggly that I couldn't hold on to her, and the first week, she practically jumped out of my hands on to the laminate floor. I mean a hard wood like floor. How could she survive that with this AAI diagnosis? I am amazed at all the things and tests and surgeries and stuff that she has been through and survived with this diagnosis. I simply don't know what to make of it. But I am babying her as usual. And terrified to groom her --or even when she shakes her head. Can't wait to talk with Tamera again. I will call for an appointment with Tamera tomorrow. Keep us in your prayers. Much love, Shellie, Cassie,and Muffin |
I am so sorry you are going through this but I need to say this, You CANNOT due Chiropractic on a neck with AAI as it would basically be like trying to adjust a broken neck . Also I would Not risk PT with this either. The Omeprizole is deff needed as it slows the production of spinal fluid allowing it more time to escape the brain & reducing the pressure. I am 100% for Holistic for almost everything & I swear by Chiropractic care for my pups BUT Holistic care & Chiropractic can NOT help with AAI & infact Chiropractic can kill a dog with AAI or Chiari if the adjust the neck. I think she needs to see a Neurologist & if she were mine, No One & I mean No One but a Neuro would be touching her till I had a firm diagnoses. I will be praying for your tiny Cassie. |
Just wanted to add that I believe I gave you the name of an excellant Chiropractor not far from you but I would bet my next breath that he would not touch a dog with AAI & I would never take my pups to one that would even consider adjusting the neck of an AAI pup. |
Oh, Heavens no!!! I would never go to a physical therapist or chiropractor for an AAI pup! She does need testing (most likely an MRI) done to see what is going on. Yes, AAI can be diagnosed by xray, but it is possible that other things are going on. Sammy, my little foster, is a perfect example of what can be there that you don't see. I don't mean to be rude at all, but my concern is that your holistic vets have overlooked neurological deficits in your pup all of these years and that would really bother me. If they were unable to diagnose it, how do you think they will best know how to handle it now? Maybe they would suggest surgery....but maybe not....the ONLY way to know what is going on with Cassie is to get that testing done. It is expensive, yes, but better than playing guessing games and going to someone who could end up paralyzing or worst yet killing her. One wrong move of her neck and those things could very well happen. This is a very serious condition...don't let the fact that she has lived with it for five years lull you into believing it is not serious!! Get to a neurologist and get a FIRM diagnosis. You do not even know for sure that she has hydrocephalus. I am going to try to get a video of Sammy in the next day or two to show you how he walks. People are stunned when they see the laundry list of things that are wrong with him....he still gets around but he is indeed a really messed up pup and there is no way I would allow someone to mess with his neck and try to strengthen his muscles...that wording is scary!! Here is a link about Sammy and his problems: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ro-issues.html |
Thank you both, lillymae and ladyjane for voicing your opinions. I too was surprised that she would recommend this and was fearful that chiropractic or PT could hurt or kill her. But I have been so dependent on my Vet and she has always seemed to make the right decisions for my babies, that I tend to want to do whatever she says. The truth is-thus far she has never been wrong about them and the things she has done has always helped them. But this is a very very special case, very dangerous and different, and I am very scared and I don't want to make a mistake about this. One mistake can be fatal!! I think I am going to opt out of the PT and Chiropractic stuff and go to VSH to see a neuro guy. I am still going to wait for Tamera to get back to me with her recommendations about which doctors to use. And also for Dr. Feinberg to consult the expert on Wednesday. I think an MRI is probably important, but I am truly terrified of putting her under YET AGAIN. I mean I am TERRIFIED!!!! And yes, I do wonder why these things were never addressed. It is true that no real life threatening symptoms were presenting themselves in the past, from the neuro symptoms, but still, I would have wanted to know these things were there. She said that the ER surgeon was using scare tactics, but I never felt like he was pressuring me to have surgery, only telling me the truth of what he saw. I'm a little confused about all this. I just don't get it. I adore my Vet, she is amazing, but I don't understand why she didn't say anything, as I know for sure she must have known about it. She's extremely brilliant. I don't know why she wouldn't mention it, unless she felt as she said to me tonight, she's a tiny dog and any number of things could kill her-but-that sounds so cold-and she's not like that. I don't' understand............ |
I agree.. no Chiro or PT... she's always handled anesthesia well, so I don't think that will be a problem at all. I think maybe your vet is trying to protect you in a sense. I don't think the vet that did the dental is trying to scare you either, as he is not the one that would be doing the surgery, if she needs it. I have to go now, but I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers.... |
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The surgeon who told me about the AAI was not the Vet who did the teeth extractions. I know there are a lot of players here, and even I get confused sometimes, but what happened was, when Cassie was in the ER around the corner from me, recovering from pneumonia, the ER doctor who was caring for her showed her X-rays to a surgeon whom I had never met before, because when I told her Cassie had a curvature of the spine, and on the X-ray they took of her lungs (they could also see her spine because she is so tiny they could see her whole body practically,) they did not see a curvature of the spine. So it was this surgeon whom I had never met, that talked with me about what he saw on the X-rays. The Vet who did the dentistry, the one Tamera recommended, he is an hour away from me and had no idea she had AAI. As a matter of fact, he said had he known, he would have hesitated to put her under anesthesia, much less pull 19 teeth. He is the one who is going to show the X-rays to his consultant on Wednesday. I know that she's been under anesthesia before, and shes done fine, but each time, it is terrifying and I never want to go through it again. I trust completely Dr. Feinberg, the Vet Dentist that did the extractions, as he is extremely careful and familiar working with tiny tiny dogs. He calls me at home, he takes each pet and treats it as his own. He will call me at 2 AM in the morning if I need him and Cassie or Muffin were in trouble or in pain. He has given me his home number. His anesthesia is the safest and the best. Although the VSH is a top top hospital associated with UC Davis, it is like an institution. The vet's do not know me there. Cassie and I are just a number. I do not feel as safe going there. I really really am frightened out of my wits to go there. I keep dreaming that I go there and they come out of surgery with an "I'm sorry" look on their faces. I better end here, I think I'm making myself hysterical. I have to calm down. Thanks for everything. Will update soon. Love, Shellie |
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I know you want warm and fuzzy, but that is not what is needed for a proper diagnosis. A proper diagnosis does not mean surgery....it means just that: diagnosis! I cannot believe that ANY vet would suggest doing anything further to Cassie until they know exactly what is wrong with her! I hate saying this to you...and don't mean to trash your vets. They may be very nice...but nice is not diagnostic. You really need to know exactly what is up with Cassie! |
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I don't know why any of my vets, not one, ever mentioned it to me. I have been asking myself the same question. I am shaken. I totally agree and there is no question, and there never was one, that I will take her to vsh. I was just saying that I was terrified, and still am. Still, it doesn't change the fact that I will take her there. Still shaking in my boots :-) Shellie |
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You just need to know what you are dealing with so that you can think about what you might do. You really may opt to do nothing. ... and she could be fine just as is. Each case is different! My foster, Sammy, is living proof of that. I just think you need to know what it is for sure. |
shellie I am so sorry to hear what you are going through, I must say you are very lucky that you are a member of YT, because most of the gals on this thread know more about serious medical conditions that occur in yorkies than vets do. Between their years on YT and with the yorkies they have seen through rescue they have been around more yorkies with AAI than most regular vets. Did you ask your Holistic Vet how many she has seen? I am glad that you are listening and taking their advice. Since you will be going by yourself, and will most likely be under stress perhaps the gals here could help you make a list of all questions, tests, or meds they think you should discuss while at your appointment. I know you are nervous to go there, but with the information you are gaining on here you will be well equipped to discuss and ask questions which should make for a much better visit. I will keep you and your babies in my prayers. |
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Much love, Shellie Thank you all for everything |
I can imagine how scared you are. I will keep you both in my prayers. |
Keeping you and Cassie in my prayer's.:) |
Shellie, ladyjane has mentioned one of her little guys who has multiple issues & 2 of the things he has are AAI & Chiari both of these are life threatening & should never be treated by anyone who is not specialized in treating them so do as she says & go to the specialists she recommends. I know that you have a very good relationship with your holistic vet but some things are simply best left to a specialist. My Sassy had Chiari & I would NEVER let a Chiro touch her neck. With serious neck issues such as AAI & Chiari it can have a domino affect to the spine & it's fine to let a Chiro adjust the spine & it can help relieve some of the stress on the neck but NEVER let them touch her neck. And Shellie, I have had every dog & cat I have rescued to a Chiropractor & I know what a Chiro can & can't treat & what they should & should NOT treat & I can tell you that ALL of the Chiros I have used for my rescues would Never touch the neck of an AAI or Chiari pup & IF you ever went to one who wanted to adjust the neck of an AAI or Chiari pup you need to tell them NO !!!! & walk out with your pup & Never go back. I must say that I too am shocked that your vets have never sent you to a specialist with your baby given her symptoms & IMO is inexcusable. |
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Shellie, I don't think anyone here can recommend any kind of meds until you have a diagnosis. I can say that if this were my pup I would definitely be headed to a Neurologist ASAP & I would be insisting on an MRI of the head & neck & most likely a spinal tap. I can't see what her spine looks like but from your description I would want an MRI of her full spine as well. I will be praying that things are not as bad as they appear to be & that with treatment whatever that may be she will live a long & happy life. |
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Yes, as I've mentioned previously , I was not going to go the route of chiro or PT, I was going to go to VSH and have an MRI done to find out what the heck is going on with my baby. So rest assured, the chiro and PT is not going to happen. |
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MRI For Cassie Shellie, I have gone the route of the AAI with one of my little boys and my vet treated him for a week with meds and confinement and insisted it was a back injury although x-rays didnt show anything. After one week of his screaming and not getting any better I literally pitched a fit with him to get me an appointment with Auburn Vet School. He resisted sending us due to the expense and he really thought he knew what was going on but he was not living with Kole and seeing the pain and agony that we were going through. He had even sent him home with an IV and we transported him to Auburn with an IV. They did an MRI and immediately knew what the problem was but by that time the brain stem was shutting down his organs and they told us it was too late. They could have done surgery that has a good success rate (even though it is a serious surgery) and implanted screws to hold the vertebra together if we had gotten him there in time. We were too late for him and a lot of the fault lies with my vet. This is a large vet clinic who sees thousands of dogs but had never seen an AAI. So, you really need to be in a place where this type of problem is seen and treated. My vet did not know the outcome of Kole's visit for several months because I was so angry. The hospital eventually sent him Kole's chart and in turn he donated money to establish a fund for this condition in Kole's memory. That was great but too late for Kole. I tell you this because of personal experience and loosing my little one and having my heart torn out. I also have a friend who had chiari in her yorkie and was sent to Auburn Teaching Hospital for diagnoses. She had the surgery and is alive and doing good eight years later. Even in some of the larger vet clinics they just dont see these conditions. At Auburn the first thing they do is an MRI because they arent available in most clinics. My experience is that the MRI was all that was required to diagnos the problems. I have two with hydrocephalus and both were diagnosed there. Please get Cassie to a specialist for your sake and hers. Sorry this is so long but time is extremely important in a lot of cases. |
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