Specialist for Bladder issues
 

As you know, Lucy had her bladder surgery a few months ago (late Feb/early March).

She has been leaking urine when she lays down ever since then. Although her Vet likes to refer to it as 'spay incontinence' - she was NOT incontinent until after her bladder surgery. To the best of my knowledge.

He thinks it is no big deal - she's drinking more water - eating the prescription food, yada yada yada. This happens sometimes, yada yada.

He has her on one-fourth pill twice a day to prevent the leaking bladder or stop the bladder spasms or to strengthen the bladder - I forget which one he told me. I don't have it here with me at work - but it's an older antihistimine of some kind he told me.

Anyway, the minute we try and back the dosage down - she starts peeing again. I just bought all new bedding for my bed (due to the stink) - mattress pad, sheets, blanket, etc. She took her medicine yesterday and even WITH a diaper on - she peed the bed last night. We've put her back up to the 1/4 pill twice daily dosage.

Long story short - what specialist does she need to see? A kidney specialist or a bladder specialist? I could not find a bladder specialist online. She has gained a lot of weight on this food - I just feel like my Vet isn't taking my concerns seriously. Do I need a referral from him? I feel he's being reluctant to refer me since he's the one that did the bladder surgery. Perhaps something went wrong?

I am just at my wits end - she is too young to be incontinent. She has gained way too much weight on this Rx food. Which she LOVES. I am feeding the amount I was told. Perhaps the medication is causing the weight gain. Feel lost and like Lucy could be/should be doing better.

If you know - tell me what kind of specialist she needs to see. I'm close to OSU so I should be able to find it. Nephrologist? Are kidney and bladder the same specialty?

It sounds like her kidneys are healthy. You can see an IMS. That is what I'd do. Actually, one of my dogs has bladder problems and is under the care of an IMS. If fixing the issue comes up, you may be redirected to a surgeon.

That does not sound right.
That food can make them drink more and then pee more. I would not expect leaking though. Are they positive that this bladder issue isn't related to her liver?

You do need a referral here unless it is an emergency.

If it is like human docs, probably urologist. I had my male pup Jasper neutered about 2mos ago and the same thing happened to him. Immediately after I picked him up after surgery he leaked urine off an on and did not have that issue prior to surgery. I took him back a week or so post op and they put him on antibiotics and told me to bring him back if it did not get better. Well it has gotten better slowly but not a 100%. He has one leaky accident during the night in the last 3 weeks. But I know he can hold it as I keep him crated in a 3x3 ft xpen with a pee pad during the day while I am at work and he rarely uses the pee pad. So I am not really sure what all is going on but it is not too bad now and not enough for me to put him through all the testing that would be needed. I hope you are able to get answers on your baby. Keep us posted.

ETA
I hope they did a follow up xray on surgery day to make sure they got all the stones and have ran urinalyses and cultures after you described this symptom?

Ellie May,

They did fwp x rays and fwp testing to ensure that she was free of infection - no UTI.

I don't want to alienate my Vet; I really like him but I feel I need a referral to a specialist - I guess an Internal Medicine Specialist from your post.

The type of stones that she had were not the stones that are normally associated with the liver - that's what the Vet said.

Any suggestions as to how to tactfully ask? I don't want it to seem like I'm pointing fingers or saying the surgery went bad. (I've battled the great white wall in my own health) and I know that Vets will want to avoid me like the plague if they think that's what I'm doing. And I'm not; I just want to be sure all is well.

Here, I can self-refer. I call and make the appt and have the records sent. Or, if I don't want to send the records, I ask for a copy and bring them myself. I know you like the vet, but you also said that you feel the vet isn't taking your concerns seriously. I would have a big problem with a vet that did not take my concerns seriously and would therefore not be concerning myself w/ pissing him off. It's just part of the job, and they need to be able to deal.

As an aside - when Daisy was a much younger dog, she had a similar problem. The vet at the time said the dog had spay incontinence and put her on Proin. The proin tightened up the sphincter in the bladder and the issue resolved. To make a long story short, after some time on the drug, we did not need it anymore. To this day, I'm not sure I buy the whole spay incontinence issue - why else would she stop leaking? It's been about 8 or 9 years now since stopping the drug without a problem. I always wonder if she had an infection that spontaneously resolved or whatever. Who knows.

It's good you want to pursue this a little further, I think I'd do the same.

I have not had this problem. Ie: Spay incontinenece. I would too as well want a specialist consult to find out what is going on, and to receive meds that will have a good chance of working.

But one thing I always do is ask for a copy of every report, test, record etc; I even make sure to have the digital Xrays emailed to me. this is so I do have a complete health record to take with me where-ever I go.

In terms of requesting a referral from your vet; I agree don't worry about it, they are supposed to be a professional, just say that I want a referral to an IM at xxx, would like her seen by a specialist now.

I hope your able to find a qualified specialist to help Lucy. Im keeping her in my good thoughts

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I know vets and docs can feel threatened or intimidated when you appear to be unsure or uncomfortable with their diagnosis or plan of treatment/care. Like barney, I personally dont concern myself with that...that is their problem, not mine....but if you just sweetly tell your vet you are REALLY concerned and you would feel like you had covered ALL bases if you could get a referral to a specialist at OSU. "I know me and if anything happens to my Lucy, I will never forgive myself if I think I did not do EVERYTHING I could possibly do...and if I dont do this, I will NEVER forgive myself if anything happened to my baby. So for my OWN peace of mind, PLEASE refer me to a specialist at OSU." If this vet is still reluctant or resentful, he is NOT looking out for YOUR best interest!

I like it. I don't want him to think that I'm trying to say that it HIS fault because of the surgery. I do just want to cover all the bases.

I found a diaper that she can't get off and she actually woke me up last night to go out because she HATES to pee in that diaper. Still, a diaper at not yet 3 years old is not good and I know it.

I'll let you guys know what he says. I feel like I'm being a pain - yet they have a brand new office and between both of my dogs, I've helped furnish it so . . . I will expect him NOT to be offended when I sweetly ask.

bladder infections
 

My daughter and I bought two yorkie boys from the same litter at 6 weeks of age. Now they are 14 weeks old. Her boy, Oliver, has had two bladder infections since she got him. He's currently on his second round of antibiotics and he does not seem to be getting better.

She went to the health food store and got natural cranberry with vitamin C chewable tablets to cut up and give to him in small portions. She looked online to get the portion amounts to figure out.

She's at her wits end as to how to resolve this problem with him. He's too young to begin his life with chronic bladder infections, wouldn't you think?

Are there any suggestions or some advice anyone could give in regards to this issue?:animal36

Update
 

I am finally getting a referral to an IM Vet at OSU.

First, I have to take Lucy to her regular Vet and have another x ray to make sure no more stones are forming; a urinalysis; and a urine culture.

Once he gets those results back - he will refer us out. I just hope I don't have to have those tests done twice but he said he will be forwarding copies of the results.

I'm so relieved that we might get some help. The pills are not working like they once were - and her bottom is wet all the time from peeing whenever she lays down. I've bought all new bedding for ME because it was awful.

She will spend all night ripping off a diaper. Plus, she wants to be a good dog and I know she doesn't like peeing all over herself.

I will keep you posted.

I'd let OSU decide what tests are needed. Any vet who conditioned a referral on doing tests himself first would be fired if this was me. If he was able to figure it out, you might not need a specialist and I'd tell him that. I'm sorry this kind of crap doesn't sit well with me.

That aside good luck with the appointment.

I totally agree. I would not be happy with a vet who has dismissed me for so long suddenly turn around and want to do tests because I wanted a referral to a specialist.
I would tell him no thank you, just give me the referral. He really has to do that btw!!!

Further to my comments, OSU seems to allow owners to make an appointment directly. Just tell your vet you want a copy of the record and make the appt yourself. What audacity to demand you do tests with him "first" before he will give you a referral!!! Is he going to pay for all your new bedding while you wait around for him to grace you with his referral?
I find this outrageous.

Internal Medicine | College of Veterinary Medicine

Oh, I agree...I would be livid. If I were to ask my vet for a referral, there would be no discussion....she would simply honor my wishes and make the referral.

Pay for the bedding...AND the testing!

Well, I kind of wondered about the necessity of all those tests prior to seeing the specialist. Here's the things guys - I think he's afriad.

I mean - he IS the one that did the surgery and she didn't have this problem until AFTER the surgery. I truly think he trying to make sure he's covered all the bases before someone else is looking at his work.

Is that crazy for me to think that? I've handled a lot of MedMal cases in my life and I know CYA when I see it. That said I realize human medicine and Vet medicine are not the same.

But I got the impression from the OSU website that referrals were necessary; I'll check your link.

Bottom line - she's going on Sunday for the tests that he 'suggested' unless I cancel. I'll see if I can get someone at OSU today.

I mean - if MY GP can't fix the problem he refers - no questions asked. As I write; I'm thinking it should work the same with the Vet.

I don't think I would do any more tests with this vet. If it took you asking for a referral for him to suggest further testing, I am thinking you might want to run the other way.
You are right....if they cannot fix it, they should refer out. Period! I think you have given him ample time and opportunity to help with this problem.

Back in November my George had a dental...about 10 days later his salivary gland was leaking and ended up having to be removed. I suspected something must have happened during the dental..... my vet's response was that IF it did happen she was very sorry....she never once ignored it or put me off. She made the referral to Texas A&M because he needed surgery to repair it. I will never know how it happened and I don't dwell on it because I am very aware of the fact that things happen ... coupled with the fact that I have been going to her since 2001 and have had too many dentals on yorkies to count and there has never been an issue.

Anyway.............yes, I would call OSU and then make your decision. They are going to want to do testing there and sometimes the xrays that general vets do are just not enough or what they need. You could be tossing money to the wind.

I am so sorry you are going through this....stuff like this is extremely frustrating.

I called and got my Appt!
 

I called the OSU referral secretary and she said I could make my own appointment.

I asked her about all the testing my Vet wanted to do and she said - NO. Let the specialist decide. You've been dealing with this for how many months; he can't fix it and now let's let the specialist have a chance.

So - thank you! I'm calling to cancel the $300 in tests from her regular Vet and ask that he fax over her records this coming week

Appt - Tuesday the 19th is the first I could get.

Fingers crossed.

Excellent! I am sure the specialist will get to the bottom of it all.

Now, in the meantime, put diapers on her and a piddle pad under her on the bed! :) That is what I do with Gabby....although she often gets off of the pad during the night. Trust me, I sympathize and can relate on the bedding issue.

Yup, could be a cya move.
Best to just move on to the IMS.

My dog just had a bladder u/s by a general vet. I knew he may not see everything an IMS woud, but figured what the heck. We might get a dx and avoid the specialty hospital. Not a fan of that place... He did see some abnormalities that he had never seen before, but could not dx it. So he sent us to the IMS...and the u/s that he did was free bc of no dx. If he really wants to play this retest game, I'd tell him he s welcome to do so...at no charge to you.

BTW, Ry's IMS wants the next urinalysis to be a double...samples taken cysto and free catch sent out at same time. This would help r/o granulomatous urethritis. Definitely not saying this is your girl's problem, but it is just one example of why repeating a regular u/a before seeing the IMS would have been a waste of money.

So happy to hear that. Vs a Vs the bedding. It is hard; what I did was a number of things. 1) covered my bed in the daytime with a blue outdoor tarp. 2) if you can't crate or xpen at night. Then take that tarp hopefully it is still clean, and cover it with a cotton light weight large towel at end of bed. 3) Place his bed on towel which has the blue tarp underneath it.

I have a large laundry sink. Then I'd soak towels, sheets if needed if 50/50 white vinegar water cold soak. Overnight. Then I take and saturate an enzaymatic cleaner all over the stain (s). Then I place in washing machine and let soak in cool sudsy water for 2 hrs. Or heck half the day if you want. Then wash. Then I hang out to dry to see if I have gotten all stains out, and for my own nose smell.

But when things were really bad, I did have to finally give up on my down comforter and buy a new one.

So glad, that you are on the road to getting some answers!

Great! I'm sure you'll be very happy to finally get some answers.

Keeping our fingers and paws crossed here. Good luck on the 19th.

Keeping Lucy and you in my prayers....

So my vet called me on Monday afternoon to 'clear up any misunderstanding."

According to him - he was receiving calls from the specialist office wanting the test results for the tests that we were supposed to do on Sunday.

He was not happy. I went through with him my conversation with the specialist office and how they recommended they do their own tests. He called the referral secretary and she told him that the calls were recorded so he could check?

What is this? I asked him if he listened to a recording of the call - because I see this as a HUGE invasion of my privacy - despite the disclaimer that all calls will be recorded . . . . I do not want my vet listening to a recording of MY call simply because I made my own referral and cancelled tests at his office.

I may well be changing Vets after all this.

No new info - just wanted to vent that I recieved a very odd call from my regular vet.

Are you kidding me!!! This guy has problems. Run....run......run!!

How dare he call them ! You have a right to take your business wherever you damn well please! My vet would never do something like this, and trust me I have been all over two states with my dogs. Wow. just wow. I am almost speechless.

This guy is a KOOK! I have never heard of such a thing. Unprofessional is an understatement.

You should tell him that you are entering his name in the YT contest for the most unprofessional vet experience; and that you are confident he will take first place!

Trust me, that place is NOT calling him looking for those test results. They don't do
that....they work with what they get....and do whatever tests that they need. He
is, I am quite certain, lying to you.

You are thinking about changing vets?? I don't think there is a question...you need to do what Cathy said...RUN. Don't let this man push you around like this! Even IF you said something about him to that other place, so WHAT? He clearly was not handling it well that you are getting a second opinion...one has to wonder what his fear is. If he is THAT insecure, you don't want him touching your pups. You only want vets that are confident about their abilities....clearly he is not. If one of my pups had the issues yours has, my vet would have sent me to a specialist...I would not have to ask her for a referral!

OMGoodness! I'm sorry but your vet sounds a bit paranoid to me. And like he could have/should have been doing something more all along to help little Lucy... Now he's trying to CHB... I wouldn't be looking back....

PS: Worked in the field a long time... never heard of phone calls being recorded... except when you leave a voicemail message... had to laugh when I read that one...