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Large Bite Wound w/Dying Tissue - Need Advice First, this post is about my parents' dog, a 15 year-old toy/miniature poodle, Karmen (she's about 19 lbs). I'm just looking for some advice from anyone who has been through a similar experience with a large wound on a dog. About a week ago, I went over to my parents' house to check on their dogs. To make a very long story short, one of the larger dogs attacked Karmen. She had several shallow bite marks around her neck and a larger bite mark on her rump. I rushed her to the hospital and they immediately administered antibiotics and other treatments. She stayed in the hospital overnight and the vets were cautious, but optimistic, that she would be fine. The biggest concern was the larger bite mark on her rump. About two days later, an abscess developed on her rump/hip and the vet had to make a small incision to drain the pus and fluid. Unfortunately, more tissue in this area started to die and the wound grew. At this point, the wound is about 4 inches in diameter. During this time, she was at the vet's office daily, and they were really trying everything to keep the wound from getting worse. Karmen is currently being treated daily at the vet with treatments that include laser treatment (which helps the tissue regenerate) and cleansing with sugar and honey (both of which have antibiotic properties). The vet is minimally optimistic that this will work, but it's the only thing that might work. Surgery is not an option because of her age and a mild heart condition. Also, our vet agrees that the surgery (which would basically involve a skin graft from a healthy location) could mean that we just trade one problem for another (i.e., the graft not taking, the wound from the graft site not healing, etc). Our family is really struggling with what to do. We are so fortunate to have wonderful vets (we've been going to the same practice for about 14 years) who are really trying to do what they can. Our vet did tell my mom that euthanasia was a viable option given the situation. Karmen was our family's first dog and the emotional bond we have with her is very strong. My stepdad is particularly devastated, because Karmen has always been "his dog." He wants to try everything possible. My mom loves Karmen, but feels that she is already very old and probably at the end of her life anyway. My mom does not want to prolong Karmen's life if it means pain and agony that Karmen cannot understand. At this point, Karmen is at the vet's office each day, and I am sure she doesn't like that too much. And of course this being the holidays doesn't make things any easier..... The somewhat ironic part is that despite missing a significant amount of skin on her rump (the wound looks nasty, although it has finally stopped oozing), she seems absolutely fine. She's eating like a champ, able to get around, and is her usually self. The vet has bandaged her rump for now. I know wounds of this nature can take a long time to heal. What we're scared of is that more tissue will continue to die, which will make it highly likely that Karmen will die from sepsis. We don't want her last days to be filled with pain, but we are also hopeful that the treatments will work. Has anyone out there been through this? Any advice or words of wisdom? |
I'm so sorry that you are going thru such a rough time with your dog. I understand not wanting to do surgery at this age. Maybe just take it one day at a time, since she is eating fine, etc. . I wish I could give you some advise but I can send my good thoughts and prayers to you and your family. |
Sounds like you have excellent vet care and that is so important in cases like this. Hopefully, someone will be able to give you advice but it really sounds like you are doing all you can do. It is great to hear that Karmen is feeling like herself, active, and has good eating habits. I will pray she continues to keep her spirits and her wounds begin to heal. Please keep us updated on her recovery.:) |
Thanks so much. It's just such a horrible situation for our family, especially around the holidays. My mom feels terribly guilty because she thought it was ok to leave all the dogs together (Karmen and the dog that attacked her had been living together with no issues for almost a year. The other dog is also a poodle, but larger). I also think it's hard because she appears to be feeling just fine. The vet thinks that there has been some nerve damage, and that's why she's not in pain. But she's able to walk and run and do just about everything she always does. It's hard to talk about euthanasia when your dog is walking around and eating just like normal (granted, with a huge chunk of skin missing). |
I can't imagine what your mom is going through. Has euthanasia come up by the vet yet? :( I am so sorry this happened to poor Karmen and your family is having to deal with such a situation. Thank you for sharing your story, though. I don't think people often think about things like this happen in their own home, especially with thier own pets. |
Yes, after talking with the vet and the emergency animal hospital where Karmen spent the night, it is clear that this happens fairly often. Euthanasia has been discussed and it's a very possible option. We're hoping she can at least make it through the holidays, but we'll have to see. |
Oh, I am SO sorry. Tell your mother she is not to blame. Sadly these things do happen sometimes. :( It sounds like she is getting great care. I do hope that since she is eating well and moving about, perhaps the wound might begin to heal. I will keep her and all of you in my thoughts and prayers. Very traumatic for all. |
Oh, I am SO sorry. Tell your mother she is not to blame. Sadly these things do happen sometimes. :( It sounds like she is getting great care. I do hope that since she is eating well and moving about, perhaps the wound might begin to heal. I will keep her and all of you in my thoughts and prayers. Very traumatic for all. |
It is a horrible situation for all concerned, especially difficult at holiday time. I think as you were already advised, taking one day at a time is the wy to go. As long as she is eating well and you can see she has some enjoyment in her life, I would try to help her keep going and maybe heal this wound. If it comes to the point that she is in too much pain, then you can change the course and agree that she needs help ending her life. I hope this will not have to be done at Christmas though. It is so hard when a loss is asociated with a holiday. I had a 17 1/2 year old dachshund that I was asked about euthenasia several times. I always said that as long I kept seeing sparks of my girl enjoying her life, I could not do it. She did not have a horrible wound to deal with though -- just the normal problems of being that old: arthritis, blind, and deaf). Whatever decision you, your family, and the vet come to -- know that it is the right one for you all. No one else can know what is right for you and your dog's particular circumstance. The important thing is that she was given 15+ years of wonderful love and devotion. Prayers for you all! |
Just thinking it may be important if your vet were to treat this a bit more aggressively like with IV antibiotics for a few days... JMHO |
It doesn't sound as though the dog's quality of life is bad. She is eating well, and running around, she sounds pretty happy. Since it sounds like the wound is open, not stitched together, it has to granulate in and that takes longer to heal. Maybe if the wound isn't getting worse, and a new infection isn't setting in, she will make it. I know I wouldn't be able to euthanize if she were happy and her quaility of life was good. However, if the wound were getting worse, and infection was setting in, then I am sure she would start to feel bad and her quaility of life would be in decline. I have to agree with others, I would take it day by day. |
I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. It sounds like you are working with a fantastic vet who has Karmen's best interest at heart. If it comes down to making the decision to euthanize or not, then follow your own heart and let her comfort be your guide. To me, it sounds quite positive that she is still active and eating well. Deep wounds are always the hardest and take the longest to heal because they have to heal from the inside out. Please tell your mom that she's not at fault for this. Things can happen even when you watch them like a hawk. Please keep us updated. |
I am so sorry the little poodle is going through all this. It sounds like ya'll are doing all you can to help her. Of course the vet care and guidance is of the utmost importance. One thing I can suggest that my vet recommends for wounds is lavender oil. You can get the essential lavender oils at most health food stores. I mix it with a little coconut oil as the carrier oil. Lavender oil is one thing I would not be without. You just have to make sure you use the 100% pure therapeutic lavender oil. Here is a link that explains the benefits: The Many Benefits of Lavender FYI....it works wonders for toothaches too. I pray everything works out. I would definitely give up just yet. Please keep us posted. |
I have seen and treated a lot of abcesses in my life (although not on a small dog) where they had to be lanced. It has always been my experience that through the healing process it looks like tissue around the abcess area dies, and that is part of the process. It should stop dying and healing tissue should take over again The thing with an abcess is it is deep tissue, and must heal from within as I am sure your vet has told you. This is part of the healing process and can seem quite slow. I have also seen some wounds where the hide is missing and muscle tissue is exposed. This always looks quite disturbing and sometimes, even though the tissue you see looks dead it can just be dry from a lack of skin covering. My point is that even though it may look really really bad, it may still be healing like it should be. I think you and your family know your dog best and have great medical vets to help you make the best informed decisions regarding her care. I am so sorry this happened and you are having to go through this tough time. |
I really have no advice, but wanted to say that a friend of mine who is in rescue went through this. She has Doxies. Never had an issue and one day came home and found her oldest and sickest had been attacked by the three of them. She had 19 puntures on her. She rushed her to the vet but she was in too bad a shape and had to be put down. She was sick over it. She said she had them for years, but the oldest and sickest she had from a pup. She said she would never hurt them or wish them bad but couldn't look at them. She ended up rehoming them, which I think was better. She just could not get the picture out of her head of her litte baby laying in pain dying when she got home. And, this is a very responsible woman who devotes all her time to rescue. I'm not sure if she'll get another again or not but she is fostering an old man from a neglect case that isn't a Doxie and who will probably stay with her until the end as he is not really adoptable. I"m sorry for your mom and for the little girl. I pray God keeps her from suffering. It is very tragic. Elaine. |
[QUOTE=Cha Cha;3363281]I have seen and treated a lot of abcesses in my life (although not on a small dog) where they had to be lanced. It has always been my experience that through the healing process it looks like tissue around the abcess area dies, and that is part of the process. It should stop dying and healing tissue should take over again The thing with an abcess is it is deep tissue, and must heal from within as I am sure your vet has told you. This is part of the healing process and can seem quite slow. I have also seen some wounds where the hide is missing and muscle tissue is exposed. This always looks quite disturbing and sometimes, even though the tissue you see looks dead it can just be dry from a lack of skin covering. My point is that even though it may look really really bad, it may still be healing like it should be. [QUOTE] Thank you so much. Yes, the vet today was more optimistic. She said that the skin all looks really healthy beneath, like it wants to heal. My parents are continuing treatment for this week at least and are going to see how things progress from here. While money wasn't initially a huge concern, at $70-$100 per day for treatment, it's obviously becoming somewhat of an issue. We are really hoping that the vet can get things to a point where we can manage the wound at home. Thankfully, I live just down the street from my parents, so I can come over and help change bandages or do whatever else needs to be done. Right now, muscle tissue is exposed and it looks just horrible. It's just so amazing that she doesn't seem to be in any pain. And if it was painful we would know because Karmen actually has a very low threshold for pain. Usually, the small things like a routine illness or ear infection just make her act like she's dying. So it's almost hilarious to see this dog with a huge chunk of skin missing all the way down to the muscle and her acting as if nothing is wrong. |
I am glad to hear this. I always feel that our animals have a way of letting us know when it is time to go. Your girl sounds like a fighter. The scary thing with an abcess is the body's natural instinct to form a scab. If that happens before the damaged tissue inside heals, you end up with another abcess and more infection. Daily cleaning of the wound keeps this from happening and any infection removed. Once she heals past the risk of reforming an abcess, I think home treatment will be easier. As far as the muscle damage, those wounds always look bad. But, when no vital organs, blood vesseles, nerves, or bones are involved, they will heal just fine, and this may be why she may have some muscle soreness, but not exhibiting a lot of intense pain. |
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I was working at a B&B oh my wow almost 10 years ago...we had several many "Inn cats" one was severely attacked by a raccoon, she had the same skin missing/rotting issue. I actually took her into my home for her treatment period, she had to have a tube placed under one part of her back to just under her back leg to manage the infection drainage, later the tube removal and healing became infected...both times skin had to be removed and then they did an iodine treatment topically (I guess that's what it is called) several times a day-okay I actually had to do it-I think I had her almost 3 months and the tube was in for almost a month-that was the awful part tube would try to heal over and get stuck and needed to be cleaned out but it was visually just so disturbing-never heard of sugar and honey...and of course antibiotics-she was a half wild "Inn Cat" it was a really fun process (not really), but visually I think the situation was also very similar to yours-she somehow managed to look so well disturbing limping, tubed and infected and yet had no issues with getting up and trying to hunt my Chinchilla in his house...I will always be amazed at how the skin regenerated and despite concerns the hair on her coat grew back for the most part, I actually found a really nice home for her with one of my mom's co-workers she was able to regain most use of her hind leg muscle. Of course Mikita became a house cat after that-not sure this helps but really glad things seem to be looking up for your parents dog. |
Quick update on Karmen - I wanted to post this in case someone else has this issue in the future and needs some advice. Despite missing a large section of skin on her rump/hip (it's about 5 inches by 5 inches wide) she is doing surprisingly well! She had a great holiday at home with our family. Despite being 15 and having an injury that I would think should hurt or at least be uncomfortable, she is eating like a champ and even wanting to go for long walks. She is all bandaged up at the moment and goes back to the vet tomorrow (Monday) for more treatment. The vets were cautiously optimistic that her wound will in fact heal. They are continuing to do the honey and sugar treatments, followed by some lasering and debreeding of the dead tissue. The vets told me that the dying of skin appears to have stopped and there is evidence of regrowth. They also noted that all her tissue appears healthy. The true test will be tomorrow, as it's been a couple of days since she has been at the vet. But we are really, really hoping that she makes it through this. Despite being 15, she has quite a bit of spunk still and just doesn't seem like she's at the end of her life quite yet. So we are still keeping all our fingers and toes crossed. I didn't realize until this happened just how lucky we were to have such awesome vet care right in our neighborhood. Our vets have been very proactive and really willing to try non-surgical interventions. I will post updates as we have them. |
That's really great news... glad to hear she's doing well! |
Great news about Karmen!!! Thanks for the update. Hope things continue to go well. :) |
Thanks for the update. I've thought about you a few times over the Holiday. Karmen is so lucky to have you. |
A quick (and wonderful) update on Karmen! My mom took her to the vet today and the vet said that the healing is progressing wonderfully. They are very happy with how things look and are pretty certain that Karmen won't need to even be bandaged after this week. They said that the skin is growing inward like it should and there are no signs of infection. Her rear is still bandaged, so we can't see the wound, but when I saw it last week, I found it hard to believe that enough skin would grow back. At this point, they do not even think she'll need any surgery!! I have to admit that I did not think we'd be at this point when I first posted here. My family was seriously discussing euthanasia, as we just thought that given the extent of her injury and her age that recovering from this wasn't possible. But she is acting completely normal and eating like a horse. Our vets are clearly pleased with how things are progressing. I doubt we are still completely out of the woods, but things could not be better at the moment. I have always really liked the veterinary practice we use, but I have a totally new respect for what they do after this. Seeing Karmen get better from this is just amazing. |
That is such wonderful news!!! I am so happy to hear that. |
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Btw, are they giving her antibiotics / immune support? Keep us posted :)! |
Oh wow! I was just reading your update from the 26th and then, I read your update from yesterday and got really excited. That is great news! Way to go little Karmen!!:) Thanks so much for updating Andrea. So many of us read these posts and worry about these pupsters. You are so right, others in the future may find themselves in this situation and your thread may give them some insight and hope. Thanks again and I will say a prayer for Karmen's continued recovery.:) |
Quick update on this - as things looked yesterday when we took Karmen to the vet, it appears she's going to make a full recovery!! I will admit that when the vet showed me her wound about 2 weeks ago (it had been bandaged and it was the first time I was seeing it), I was skeptical that it would ever heal. It was deep (down to the muscle) and HUGE (about 5+ inches in diameter, covering her rear). Well, she had a bandage change yesterday and the wound is (per our vet) quickly closing. They said it's down to about 1-2 inches in diameter and she will likely not even need the bandages in another week or so. Everyone was so relieved!! Our vet did this without any surgery, just using laser treatments, debreeding, and sugar & honey treatments. All I have to say is - Wow!! |
That is so awesome! Very happy for you and good to know-glad you shred this story in-case anyone else needs advice on this treatment. Keep posting I'm still reading! |
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