Up every hour last night...
 

We have still been fighting diarrhea. This makes almost a full month of off and on battles with this. We decided that it might be the orijen dog food 6 fish formula and that we're either overfeeding or it's just too rich in fish oils or protiens for their tummies. Sadie was doing fine but Bentley wasn't. So we switched them back to pheasant raw primal. Bentley's stools are normal and no Sadie has watery diarrhea. I'm getting her some more propectalin today and i'm not going to do any food changin at all for at least a week and see if this resolves itself or not. If nothing changes i'll go to a bland chicken and rice diet until we get this resolved and then slowly change to a new kibble formula. I think all the changes in our lives and with my new job coming up and Mike working overnights last week that the whole family is just nervous, stressed and chaotic. we're all sick to our tummies and i have a cold now. i'm so sleepy and stressed and the more stressed i am, the more sick they get, the more money it costs, and the more financial stress i feel again...endless cycle of depression this month. but next week is my new job start and more money will come rolling in hopefully fast. and hopefully new routines can get established and everyone can get well fast! i can't take these up all nighters anymore and i really want my babies to feel better. they act fine, but their poops are anything but fine. at least Sadie is trained and always lets us know that she needs outside or makes it to the tile in front of the door if she's not out fast enough. poor things.

more prayers, doesn't seem to be anything from the daycare Bentley was Giardia and coccidia negative. Sadie didn't have anything until yesterday.

am i crazy here? do you guys think it's the stress, changes and the food? or what? vet doesn't have any new suggestions other than try them on hill's d/d canned which i can't bear to do. she said we could do a fecal pathogen's profile just to rule out salmonella but it's $135 for employees and until our routines and our feeding are normal i don't know if that's worth the expense. i guess i'd like to rule out the food and the stress first and then see when things slow down and get back to normal whether they are fine or not. they act fine, no lethargy or anything, just the runs. they are eating and drinking fine.

thanks

My izzy if the same way... She has to eat raw then she gets Natural Balance L.I.D Bison and sweet potato dry kibble. Whenever I try and switch her dry food she gets loose stool... no matter what.. I'm so sorry your going throught this... it can drive anyone crazy :(

Try what a mentioned above...it really worked for Izzy :)

sorry you are going through this. what about giving 1/4 tablet of pepcid and some pumpkin to settle the stomach. i hope it all gets well soon.

How many times did they get a fecal test? Giardia doesn't show up in every stool sample. I just took in samples (without the exam), just to have the vet check. They can be reinfecting themselves too. That stuff can live in the ground for up to two months. All it takes is for them to walk in the same spot (even after it's been picked up). I hope your babies get better soon. I know what you're going thru.

I've had great results with a tsp of canned pumpkin... firms them right up.

I agree with baby Yorkie I had my dogs stool tested 3 times because they had diarrhea before they found Giardia. It doesn't always show up.

i've given in a few times here and there, how long does pumpkin last in a tupperware container in the fridge? i will have mike feed some soon. and maybe the pepcid as well to help. she's very gassy inside her tummy again. if it doesn't resolve with sticking to ONE food and with our schedules becoming more normal then i will run another fecal on them.

thanks, anything else please feel free to advise. i kinda just need a big hug too.

I can't add anything other than a big hug :hug:

Has your vet tried a round of Metro on both dogs?

The food is being changed way too much to have time to notice if one is worse than another. Personally, I would be listening to the vet now. Chicken and rice would be fine if they haven't shown any sensitivity to chicken in the past. IMO, it's time to stick with a bland diet for a couple weeks and see how things go.

BTW, pumpkin makes Ellie's stool way softer.

they've been on and off antibiotics for weeks. we've had clavamox drops, metro, and amox. it keeps coming back so i think it's stress/food related versus bacterial/viral. or parasites, but that was temp. ruled out for now because of a clean fecal

This is what I would do if these were my dogs -

1. I'd do the fecal profile including all the tests despite the costs. They are dependent on you for their well-being and I wonder how you'd feel if you had diarrhea for a month. It isn't comfortable for them - I don't say that to attack you but to impress upon you that this is not a good situation you have going for these dogs and enough already. I'd do the salmonella profile if for nothing else but as a rule out cause. Given that you feed raw, there is a higher chance of salmonella. Salmonella is the most frequently reported cause of food borne illness in humans and lately many recalls of dog foods and treats are showing contamination with salmonella.

2. I'd switch off of dog food and feed home cooked food and never go back to raw. I realize that some dog owners report their dogs do well on raw, your dogs do not seem to be in this category.

3. I'd remove any raw foods or any treats that were processed or store purchased. I'd never add them back and I'd feed fresh treats - frozen veggies thawed, fresh veggies and some fruits, etc. My dogs very rarely eat treats - I have one local bakery I buy from where I know every last ingredient going into the product, the person making it, the human grade ingredients used, and the preparation methods and cleanliness of the facility.

4. I'd add probiotics -- I keep this on hand for my dog Daisy who has multiple problems including IBD and liver shunt. One dietary indiscretion and there are loose stools. This product clears it up in 1-2 days -- Acidophilus for Dogs & Puppies, Dog Probiotic, Kosher & Lactose Free - 16 fl. oz. - Dynamic Health. I caution that I would only use a natural remedy IF AND ONLY IF AND WHEN I had ruled out ANY AND ALL bacterial or viral causes of the diarrhea by doing #1.


Good luck.

You can keep it in your fridge for up to 3 days. What I do though, is I buy a can, freeze it in ice cube trays and then pop the cubes in freezer bags to store. That way I can just take out what I need and defrost it in the microwave.

I'm just going to throw out ideas and thoughts because I know how incredible frustrating GI problems are.

I am not convinced that it is stress. Stool issues with "both" dogs on and off for a "month" makes me think it is something else.

Something like giardia is both hard to detect and hard to get rid of. A clean fecal and a week or two on Metro doesn't rule it out.

Other parasites are possible, but really doubtful.

They could keep getting reinfected with whatever it is if they are getting in the yard or whatever. IMO, if it doesn't clear up soon, a fecal profile is not a bad idea.

Just because it comes and goes at different times for both, maybe they are just both very food sensitive. If one does ok on one and the other does better on something else, could you feed two different things? It may just be a matter of trial and error to figure out what works best for them as individuals. If they have both done really well on chicken and rice in the past, that's what I'd do for a couple weeks to see how they do.

ETA: Because raw is involved, there is way more to consider than salmonella, esp. if they have gotten something besides premade (tested for pathogens) lately.

I agree with Cathy and Crystal. I'd get further testing done to rule out Salmonella and a fecal profile done. You've got two things going on here - feeding raw recently and the possible exposure to giardia at daycare. I just don't think stress would would give them diarrhea for a month.

Not all dogs do well on raw and not all dogs do well on high protein commercial food. We've had Maltese on another forum I belong to have elevated kidney values on both Acana and Evo. Each dog is an individual and what works for one may not work for another. Short term you don't have to worry about supplements.

I would definitely give probiotics a try like Crystal suggested. Animal Essentials makes a good one. I also think a bland diet of chicken and rice is a good idea at this point. Some dogs, like Lady, don't digest rice well so I use oatmeal or barley.

BTW, congratulations on the new job! Is it with the vet clinic or something completely new?

I agree with Cathy, Crystal and Marjorie....time to find out the cause. Treating symptoms without knowing a cause can cost more money in the long run....and in the meantime the dogs are sick and suffering; and you are losing sleep.

I would agree with Linda, Cathy, Crystal and Marjorie. You need to figure out what is going on with them. Sadie has issues for a long time with this even before you got the new puppy. It almost makes me think that she passed something on to him that has not been treated properly in the past.

i'm going back to my field of study and working in parks and rec. it's a desk/office assistant job for the local community center, but salary is higher than here and it's got lots of room to grow, learn, and move up. YAY.


And now back to the dogs:

Since Bentley has had two normal days since going back to the primal pheasant diet i am going to leave him alone for the time being. Sadie i'm going to give propectalin because she has actually been fine for this entire month with the exception of vomitting episodes back on labor day, and ONE episode last weekend. she's been normal stools until yesterday and only started the runs when we went back to primal from orijen (too fast of a hard switch?) so for her i'm going with propectalin and bland diet. if Bentley stays the same and Sadie gets over hers then i will give them a couple weeks to stay normal. if they do i'll try once more to slowly transition to a different high quality kibble. if at any point they develop any vomitting or diarrhea (esp. diarrhea) i will get that profile done no matter the cost. the only reason whatsoever i'm holding back right now is because this all happened at the same time they A. took a trip and their food spoiled B. switched to a new type of dog food since i got scared about raw spoiling C. left them overnight in their kennel with my BIL to check on them and a huge thunderstorm happened D. dh worked a week of overnights and we were home alone a lot E. am going to start a new job and am stressed about money and changing their feeding routines to a totally NOT on schedule feeding times.

with all those changes going on, and each episode of sickness coming at the same moment something changed like that, i feel like i've just gotten them so far from their normal food and routine that i've caused them to go back and forth between good and bad.

so that's my plan of action for now, i'll give Sadie a couple days on bland diet with the propect. and if she's not well we'll do the fecal profile. if Bentley gets diarrhea again after he's finally having normal movements we'll get his done too...hopefully she'll clear up with the bland and he'll stay normal now. then hopefully we can finally make a good solid SLOW tranistion to a good kibble from raw and it will work for them both. and hopefully our stress with money and new working schedules will resolve and make everyone happier and healthier....WHEW i feel better already.

i forgot to add. i've discussed this with the vet as well. she thinks that for now getting them on a routine and a schedule with ONE food and not switching it at all until they are fine is a good idea. she agrees that the cost of the fecal profile and actually needing to get it done at this point in time is not as neccessary as making sure they are on a routine and schedule and not stressed or changing their food or environment. so we'll go with that and pray it stops. if not...further diagnotics are on the way.

by the way when you give antibiotic it kills bad and good bacteria; and can cause runny stool. it's best to give probiotic when giving antibiotics to keep a healthy GI system.
also you can feed a bland diet of chicken and rice or turkey and oatmeal to settle the stomach.
check with the vet to rule out any other issues. good luck

We are pretty sure that Sadie's GI issues were related almost always to spoiled raw food (always bacteria present in the GI) hence the major switch to kibble we're trying to make but i think the kibble we picked out while it seemed to work for Sadie it made Bentley have the runs. i may have to feed seperate foods because she's my chicken allergy dog and he's apparently got something against super fishy foods. we're thinking once they finally get normal we'll try out a lamb or duck food to put both dogs in the middle somewhere. they are both allergy dogs all the way. she's allergic to chicken, possibly corn and defin. ragweed and he's got skin allergies, dermatitis issues, and possibly now some type of fish my little allergy babies! LOL stressing mama out.

i have some fortiflora probiotics, would it be ok to add that into a little plain non fat yogurt and feed with their bland diet?

not sure about the yogurt; my girl can't handle it so i am not sure if ur dog will. but u can add the fortiflora to the bland diet. twice daily morning and night. that should help.

Neither of mine can handle yogurt either.

mine have had it before, but always mixed in with a bland diet like chicken and rice. i added a tiny bit of yogurt to the broth for thickening and to make the probiotics mix in better. maybe i should hold off until they feel better though and just put the probiotics in the broth.

just learned something new. the propectalin is a probiotic as well as a little antidiarrheal med. so giving that until the stool returns to normal is actually better than fortiflora at this point for Sadie.

Rachel, I'm sorry you and the kiddos are having these problems. I don't have any additional advice to offer, but I sure hope they're all better soon!

UPDATE: Sadie is not eating anything this morning. She refuses to even take another propectalin and just NOW my dh finally decides to tell me that she spit up yesterday! Thanks dh don't freaking tell me anything about my own dogs that's so nice of you! So i'm having him make a bland diet and i'm going to talk to the vet about having him bring her over here to me.

and on top of all that my grandma is in the hospital with severe injuries, see the prayers for people thread.

Oh Rachel. I'm so sorry - sometimes everything has to hit at once. Still sending prayers for the pups to feel better soon. I'm off to read what happened with your grandma.

new game plan. vet said immediately switch both to chicken and rice and that's it for two weeks. Sadie is getting cerenia meds for the vomitting and they are both getting metroni. for two weeks straight through. also probiotics as well. if this doesn't clear it completely and it come back at any point the complete pathogens profile will be done. she thinks that whatever bacteria they have they are sharing back and forth and if this doesn't tackle the entire lot then she wants to do see them back for the fecal profile. i'm working with a different vet than the other day. it's hard with multiple vets but hopefully this helps.