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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Hearbroken, Devastated, Scared - New Puppy (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/209907-hearbroken-devastated-scared-new-puppy.html)

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3231414)
Dr. Center, the developer of the bile acids test, set a cut off of 25, not 20, for abnormal bile acids. Max's results are in the normal range.

PSVA and MVD Research Summary

Hemolysis is burst red blood cells.

Can you take Max to LSU at this point? You can waste a lot of time and money going off in the wrong direction. LSU or a specialist is going to repeat all the tests anyway.
I can, but want to finish with my local vet first. So far he is very very slight anemic and high range normal BAT.

I'm not going to go in the wrong direction. My vet is sitting at home today researching and her partner vet will call me tomorrow with results after they speak with the lab. Next step is ultrasound. After that is a referral, which at the very latest will be Tuesday.

107barney 08-08-2010 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231405)
This whole situation is a nightmare. I do commend my vet for calling me from her cell phone on a Sunday. I trust that they will lead us in the right direction. LS is not yet ruled out.
That is a good vet to call on a Sunday!

I think the lab will probably confirm this, but hemolysis and lipemia can interfere with the bile acids concentrations and artificially drive the #s up or down. Basically this means there is too much crap in the tube so it skews the reading at the lab. That's why we always draw from the jugular to get the most accurate result because it decreases these risks. Also, a narrow gauge needle is not recommended for the draw as it increases the risk of lipemia.

107barney 08-08-2010 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3231414)
Dr. Center, the developer of the bile acids test, set a cut off of 25, not 20, for abnormal bile acids. Max's results are in the normal range.

PSVA and MVD Research Summary

Hemolysis is burst red blood cells.

Can you take Max to LSU at this point? You can waste a lot of time and money going off in the wrong direction. LSU or a specialist is going to repeat all the tests anyway.

This depends on reference values of the lab doing the analysis. Nevertheless, these values are very low and unlikely indicate a shunt.

Have to agree here on the specialist - I love my general vet too but a specialist is where I'd be if this were my pup, and I would not be doing any more testing such as U/S unless a specialist were performing. Specialist meaning board certified by the ACVS in internal medicine and/or neurology.

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3231431)
That is a good vet to call on a Sunday!

I think the lab will probably confirm this, but hemolysis and lipemia can interfere with the bile acids concentrations and artificially drive the #s up or down. Basically this means there is too much crap in the tube so it skews the reading at the lab. That's why we always draw from the jugular to get the most accurate result because it decreases these risks. Also, a narrow gauge needle is not recommended for the draw as it increases the risk of lipemia.
The test was taken from his jugular.

The breeder has offered 1/2 my money back for vet bills.

Mardelin 08-08-2010 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3231414)
Dr. Center, the developer of the bile acids test, set a cut off of 25, not 20, for abnormal bile acids. Max's results are in the normal range.

PSVA and MVD Research Summary

Hemolysis is burst red blood cells.

Can you take Max to LSU at this point? You can waste a lot of time and money going off in the wrong direction. LSU or a specialist is going to repeat all the tests anyway.
Keep in mind Dr Center no longer recommends fasting.
Some great information here on how testing should be conducted as drawing of blood and what instruments are used can affect the levels.
http://www.ytca.org/health_CenterQue...xpress2010.pdf

Health Ongoing Studies

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3231435)
This depends on reference values of the lab doing the analysis. Nevertheless, these values are very low and unlikely indicate a shunt.

Have to agree here on the specialist - I love my general vet too but a specialist is where I'd be if this were my pup, and I would not be doing any more testing such as U/S unless a specialist were performing. Specialist meaning board certified by the ACVS in internal medicine and/or neurology.
I will ask my vet tomorrow to refer me to LSU.

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 08:20 AM
My breeder and I have been talking and it looks like she is really becoming supportive. She is working with me. Let's please not bash her.

107barney 08-08-2010 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231436)
The test was taken from his jugular.

The breeder has offered 1/2 my money back for vet bills.

You still can get hemolysis and lipemia from a jugular draw, but it decreases the result.

As for the breeder and the offer of 1/2 off - not sure I'd be satisfied with that. Depends on your contract terms though.

107barney 08-08-2010 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231446)
My breeder and I have been talking and it looks like she is really becoming supportive. She is working with me. Let's please not bash her.
This is great news. We will continue to pray for little Max and I hope things with the breeder continue to go in a positive direction.

mojo 08-08-2010 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3231448)
You still can get hemolysis and lipemia from a jugular draw, but it decreases the result.

As for the breeder and the offer of 1/2 off - not sure I'd be satisfied with that. Depends on your contract terms though.
At least it's a start and we don't really know what's wrong with the pup at this point.

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 09:14 AM
You can see towards the middle/end what he's doing.

teacup0819 08-08-2010 09:24 AM
Happy to hear the results have come back within normal range so far....although it must be frustrating not to have a diagnosis. I am also happy to hear that the breeder is showing you support....I'm sure you could use all the support you could get at this point. I'm still praying for both of you. :animal-pa

licricket 08-08-2010 09:44 AM
Heartbroken, Devastated, Scared New Puppy
 
Thoughts and prayers are with all of you.Your pup is adorable. I hope it turns out OK!

Phyllis

ladyjane 08-08-2010 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3231446)
My breeder and I have been talking and it looks like she is really becoming supportive. She is working with me. Let's please not bash her.
Sorry to say this: but, of course she is........now. Her livelihood is threatened because she knows how many people are reading this. I am quite sure others are hopeful this does not reflect upon the sire of this pup. People with a vested interest will come out in droves in a case like that.

Her attitude has been awful from day one, but I am sure her peers are advising her. I have seen who has come to this thread in support.

I am going to continue to pray for Max and for you and hope that all turns out well. As others have said, he needs to go to a specialist imo.

I don't know who referred you to this breeder, but I find the entire manner to have been less than what I would expect from a reputable breeder. The word euthanisia still echoes in my brain and hope it does yours as well. How many other unsuspecting people will now be sujbect to this?

Good luck

AllDogBoots 08-08-2010 10:10 AM
I started this thread on Thursday and got 2 sets of test results so far. I can't move any faster than I am and yes, he will go to a specialist for further testing as soon as he can.


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