Mikki's seizures - hollistic approach...

[Mitzis Mom]

Hi All, last week I learned that I should take Mikki to the vet again b/c of her seizures and have her put on medication and tested for liver shunt.

Today we saw a new vet also b/c of a second opinion. She told us that she likes to stay away from medications b/c of the side effects and since the seizures are NOT MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY FEW WEEKS AND NEVER MORE THAN ONCE A DAY it is tolerable. Mikki's seizures are also NOT SEVERE b/c they don't last longer than 5 minutes and the recuperation time is not longer than an hour.

A liver shunt is not likely since all other symptoms are missing but the vet took some blood and if this indicates an abnormality she will do a bile acid test.

The vet gave us a lot of info about what foods we have to avoid and about hollistic herbs we can give her. We asked about accupuncture and according to the vet that's a very good way to treat seizures so Mikki will have some accupuncture sessions this month.

Thank you for ushering me to go back to the vet with Mikki b/c now we can help her without chemicals and I feel much better having all the info we got today...

[wemple2]

What foods were you told to avoid and why? Are these known seizure triggers? My Winston too has seizures so I was curious what all you found out.

[ladyjane]

I don't know about the liver shunt advice. I don't automatically think LS when I hear seizure.
I just hope this is acceptable treatment. I personally would be extremely concerned if I had a pup who was having seizures every few weeks.
I hope this holistic approach is good for Mikki. It would not be my first thought for one of my pups...but hey......good luck.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I don't know about the liver shunt advice. I don't automatically think LS when I hear seizure.
I just hope this is acceptable treatment. I personally would be extremely concerned if I had a pup who was having seizures every few weeks.
I hope this holistic approach is good for Mikki. It would not be my first thought for one of my pups...but hey......good luck.

Did you take her to the same vet or get a second opinion?

If she were mine, I would get a second opinion from an internal medicine specialist.

[MillisMomma]

If possible, I would urge you to check into permanent accupuncture treatments for Mikki.

Back in 1992, our dog was diagnosed with seizures. She was having grand mal seizures that would last for 20 minutes or more - horrendous, life threatening situations. At that point, she was having approximately one seizure every 4 days or so. The vet put her on drugs but we found that they changed her personality and caused her to be so miserable that we felt the drugs weren't in her best interest. Even those horrible seizures were better than the side effects!

I attended a lecture by Dr. Sheri Russell, DVM in which she spoke about treating animal illness with a permanent accupuncture method. During the Q&A I asked if she'd had success in treating epilepsy to which she replied 'YES!'. We set up an appointment with her a couple weeks later. She used a needle to implant tiny gold beads at pressure points in Keesu's forehead, ears, and spine. This is a PERMANENT, CONSTANT method of accupuncture. We took Keesu home....and waited....for 4 months!!! She went from a seizure about every 4 days to one every 4-6 months! This was a radical improvement! While I can't say it was a 'cure', it was certainly something that Keesu could live with. And she did....for 17 years and 8 months!

We felt that Dr. Russell's accupuncture method was a God-send to Keesu's life and highly recommend this form of holistic seizure treatment over drugs. While it may not completely cure the epilepsy, it can make it manageable. I hope that Mikki's seizures can be relieved so that she can life a long and much-loved life just like our Keesu did!

[ladyjane]

Again, before I would consider ANY type of treatment on any of my pups for a seizure disorder, I would have a board certified internest and/or neurologist evaluate him/her. I really believe that more testing is in order beyond a simple exam and blood work.

[kjc]

I never had a dog with a seizure disorder... but my skinkid does have it. She started out having 3-4 seizures per week. Our goal as stated by her neurologist is to control them, and now she is at a point where she may seize anywhere from once every two weeks to 3-4 months, and they last up to 2-3 minutes.

She is on medication, so the balance is to have her seizing as little as possible but for her to still be able to function (quality of life). In order to eliminate them completely involves a higher dose of medication which causes her to become very inactive...zombielike which the doc explained is not an optimal state, neither mentally or physically. On her EEG, the only thing they could tell us is that her brain activity is suggestive of having seizures ... no real reason otherwise.

[Mitzis Mom]

Originally Posted by MillisMomma

If possible, I would urge you to check into permanent accupuncture treatments for Mikki.

Back in 1992, our dog was diagnosed with seizures. She was having grand mal seizures that would last for 20 minutes or more - horrendous, life threatening situations. At that point, she was having approximately one seizure every 4 days or so. The vet put her on drugs but we found that they changed her personality and caused her to be so miserable that we felt the drugs weren't in her best interest. Even those horrible seizures were better than the side effects!

I attended a lecture by Dr. Sheri Russell, DVM in which she spoke about treating animal illness with a permanent accupuncture method. During the Q&A I asked if she'd had success in treating epilepsy to which she replied 'YES!'. We set up an appointment with her a couple weeks later. She used a needle to implant tiny gold beads at pressure points in Keesu's forehead, ears, and spine. This is a PERMANENT, CONSTANT method of accupuncture. We took Keesu home....and waited....for 4 months!!! She went from a seizure about every 4 days to one every 4-6 months! This was a radical improvement! While I can't say it was a 'cure', it was certainly something that Keesu could live with. And she did....for 17 years and 8 months!

We felt that Dr. Russell's accupuncture method was a God-send to Keesu's life and highly recommend this form of holistic seizure treatment over drugs. While it may not completely cure the epilepsy, it can make it manageable. I hope that Mikki's seizures can be relieved so that she can life a long and much-loved life just like our Keesu did!

Thank you for that info! I'm a firm believer in accupuncture since it helped me to be almost painfree after more than 40 years of FM suffering.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Again, before I would consider ANY type of treatment on any of my pups for a seizure disorder, I would have a board certified internest and/or neurologist evaluate him/her. I really believe that more testing is in order beyond a simple exam and blood work.

I couldn't agree more. Mikki hasn't even had a bile acid test yet, right?

A diagnosis of idiopathic epilepsy is only made after all other causes for seizures have been ruled out.

I would absolutely urge you to get a second opinion from an internal medicine vet. Since epilepsy is usually a progressive disease if not treated, it can be dangerous not to medicate a dog who is having seizures as frequently as Mikki is.

What is kindling?

A. Kindling is the experimental phenomenon whereby repeated stimulation of the brain can eventually induce a chronic epileptic state that persists after the stimulation is stopped.

The underlying mechanisms of kindling are incompletely understood but involve changes in the electrical behavior of a group of brain cells. This may be related to alterations of chemical receptors (specifically what are called NMDA subtype of glutamate receptors) and changes in how these brain cells connect with each other through structures called synapses.

In a sense, by having repeated seizure the brain "learns" how to have seizures. Think about how a young child learning to write their name has to concentrate when printing each letter. After doing this over and over, we become able to quickly write our name without even thinking about the intricate hand movements involved. Obviously there is some change in our brain that allows this to happen, but it does not have to be a structural lesion.

I think of kindling as something similar. The brain is doing what it is designed to do...learn. It is just learning to do something harmful like have a seizure.

WB Thomas, DVM
Dipl. ACVIM (Neurology)
University of Tennessee
Knoxville, TN

Canine Epilepsy-Frequently asked questions about the diagnosis, treatment and management of seizures in dogs

[Keno]

is this hereditary? Have you spoken to the breeder about it? You might want to alert him about this.

What a sad story.

I know someone who has had acupuncture and it did nothing for him, so it might not be the panacea for all mammals. You, perhaps, were one of the fortunate ones.

Good luck.

[lisaly]

I don't know any of Mikki's history, and I tend to agree that she needs to see a specialist to rule out liver shunt and diagnose her properly. I don't know enough about this holistic vet to say what he's done. I do know that seizures can be properly managed using holistic treatments, however. My veterinarian combines eastern and western medicine. He was schooled in Beijing and his wife, also a vet at their animal hospital, was schooled at Cornell. I have always found him to be an excellent diagnostician and very dedicated doctor. My three yorkies were treated with herbal remedies at times, but because they were so difficult to pill, we had to use conventional medicine far more often. I do know that holistic treatments work. When Ashley's heart was enlarged, and we tried herbs that he developed, I viewed the x-rays with him and saw that her heart was definitely better after a few weeks of treatment. This is but one concrete example of my babies' experience with them. Over the fifteen years that I went to his practice, I saw many people who traveled great distances to see him. They had been referred by other doctors as their only hope for their pets. There were so many times I saw people whose animals were cured when another doctor had told them to put their dog to sleep. A lot of people told me that his herbal remedies worked great for seizures. He has great success with his herbs on animals that have cancer. My own babies were helped a great deal by him. He has helped many animals with acupuncture. I definitely think Mikki needs to be properly diagnosed, but I also think that sometimes conventional medicine can be harmful. I'm sure herbal remedies can also be. I just know they do work for many animals. I don't know enough about Mikki to say, and I'm not a doctor anyway, but I just wouldn't dismiss herbal remedies. I don't think that's what people are suggesting, and I agree about the danger of treating something without fully knowing what the problem is. I'm not promoting my vet or his therapies, but I just think we should sometimes consider a combination of therapies. I put a link to a 5 minute video where my vet discusses alternative treatments and an article about Jill Rappaport's experiences with his treatments on her dog. In no way does it push his practice but it just opens up the idea that there are other therapies and hope for animals who were given no hope before that.

allDAY - The 'Miracle' Vet
Healthcare for furry friends - Bing Videos

[ladyjane]

It works both ways. Holistic can also be harmful. My main concern for my pups always is getting a diagnosis first. No treatment should ever be given/done without a thorough exam and diagnosis. I will not treat symptoms...I want to know the cause!

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

It works both ways. Holistic can also be harmful. My main concern for my pups always is getting a diagnosis first. No treatment should ever be given/done without a thorough exam and diagnosis. I will not treat symptoms...I want to know the cause!

I don't disagree with anything you've written. You certainly don't want to mask symptoms and delay treatment when you don't know the underlying problem. I like to weigh the risks/benefits of each treatment.

I hope Mikki starts to do improve and that she feels better soon.