Death from a Virus
 

My poor friend had a sweat little yorkie (Her baby) who had a virus. She gave him sleeping medication for a little while and when she came to check up on him he was dead. She is having a really hard time and I feel horrible. I don't what to do to make her feel better; that dog was her child, her husband left her with only the yorkie after he took all the rest. Help me, please!

That is so sad and I'm sorry for your friend. The best you can do is listen and be there for her. Nothing can take away the sting of loss except time.

God bless.

Do you know why she was giving this dog a "sleeping medication"?

Sorry for your friends loss.:(

I'm sorry to hear the dog died. Why did she give him sleeping medication? what is dog or human medication? what kind of virus did the dog have? was he taken to the vet or did the vet advise her to give the dog sleeping meds?

The yorkie had some surery, and was given some medication to ease the pain. The vet gave him some medication and he died in hi sleep from pain.

So did the virus kill the puppy or did she give him an over-dose of medication or was it a complication of the surgery?

In any event, I'm sorry for her loss. Losing a pet is never easy.

what kind of surgery did the yorkie have? its uncommon for healthy dogs to die from pain meds. what kind of "virus" did this dog have? I highly doubt the dog died in his sleep from pain. There must have been something else going on.

not uncommon these dogs died of nsaids and why I am not a fan of them

NSAIDs Memorials/Survivors

can you give us more information on the pain med used and the surgery?

so sorry your friend went through this :(

here is a link to a discussion of nsaids on our maltese group - hope you can read it as there is a malt on there that went into renal failure from rimadyl.

Rimadyl Warning - Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums

:rolleyes: there are over 70 MILLION dogs in the USA. once again i ask you to look at the big picture here and not the unprofessional, non peer reviewed websites on the internet. that's all i'm going to say on this matter.

and how many reactions go unreported? So can we really rely on big Pharma to give us the truth?

All I can say since it happened to my dog on metacam and she was sick on one dose - I will keep warning others as I went through a nightmare getting her balanced.

Also how are you going to feel when you tell someone it is ok to give nsaids to a dog with liver disease and they die?

I posted the link but you might want to read this on how Rimadyl came about

WARNING...To Every Dog Owner. (Pfizer Rimadyl Carprofen)


Product: Pfizer Rimadyl Carprofen
Date: 01/11/01 (20311 review reads)
Rating:

Advantages: May help some dogs

Disadvantages: May be wrong for others

This is the most difficult opinion I have ever written, because of the painful memories it brings back, but I feel it is something I must do, and I'm grateful that opinion sites like Dooyoo are giving me a voice. The name of this drug, Rimadyl, sends shivers down my spine every time I hear it, but in truth it should not be the medication itself which affects me, but the arrogance of many veterinary surgeons who administer it without taking proper precautions, or discussing the pros and cons of its use with the owners of their patients.

HISTORY OF RIMADYL.

Rimadyl (carprofen),is an anti-inflammatory drug along the lines of Ibuprofen, and is used for pain relief in conditions such as arthritits, painful joints etc., in dogs. Developer, Roche Laboratories initially planned to market it for humans in 1988 and even received FDA approval, but then shelved the idea as they claimed the market for such drugs was too crowded. Perhaps one of the main reasons for this action though, was because some outside experts expressed concerns about unusual liver-function readings in 14% to 20% of the test subjects.

Now. having spent so much money on the development of the drug, the idea of just scrapping the whole project did not appeal to the company at all. Then they came up with the idea of switching the product to the animal-drug market. A couple of corporate transactions later, and Rimadyl was in the hands of Pfizer's animal-drug unit.

Next came the kind of sophisticated marketing Pfizer does well, and a survey of 885 dog owners revealed what they already knew; the vast majority of the owners surveyed were willing to pay "whatever it took", to give painrelief and perhaps add a couple more years to their aging pet's life.

The Federal Drugs Administration requires testing for animal-drugs just as for human ones, but animal-drug tests are smaller, and only about 500 dogs were given Rimadyl in various trials, which

is about a fifth of the number of subjects in comparable human-drug trials. Here some dogs showed unusual liver-function readings and one young beagle on a high dose actually died, but for the most part, the FDA and Pfizer didn't find the side effects alarming, and the drug was approved for an early-1997 launch.

Anyway, when the drug was finally released, after a multi-million dollar advertising campaign, vets were floored by the drug's effects, many claiming the results were close to miraculous. Now, as with all medications, some side-effects were evident, but after the drug's full first year, it was emerging that Rimadyl had more problems than most. Reports about Rimadyl came in by the hundreds. The FDA had received just over 3,000 animal-drug bad-reaction reports in 1996, the year before Rimadyl's launch; but in 1998, the drug's first full year, Rimadyl alone produced more than that many.


MY EXPERIENCE OF RIMADYL.

In August 2000, my Blue Merle Sheltie, Hamish, seemed suddenly to have lost his bounce. He appeared to be walking ok, and no pain was evident, but he no longer jumped up on the sofa or his favourite chair. As he was due for his annual booster, I mentioned my concern to the vet during the visit, but after an examination she said she could find nothing wrong with him and he was probably just overweight. She came to this conclusion without actually weighing him, but he had an exceptional coat, even for a sheltie, which made him look double the size he actually was, and he weighed less than my mum's sheltie who was still bouncing about fine, so I didn't bother too much about the weight issue, and was relieved that she could find nothing else wrong with him.

A couple of months passed, and by now it was the end of November, but Hamish in my view was still not himself, so I returned to the vet. Again she said she could find nothing wrong with him, but ended up giving him an injectio
n and
sent me home with some tablets to see if this helped. I had to ask what exactly he was getting, and was told it was some anti-inflammatory drug which may help him. I said I would rather he had an x-ray just to see if there was a problem, but she insisted he try out this drug for a week first. This all happened on the Friday afternoon.

.

That night he seemed very sleepy, and I put this down to the injection, but he was still eager for his dinner. Hamish loved his food, and it would take more than an injection to change that. On Saturday I began giving him the tablets he had been prescribed, and he no longer seemed as sleepy, but back to normal. On Sunday he still appeared to be doing well, but that night, for the first time in his life, he did not finish his dinner, and even refused his doggie biscuits.

By Tuesday, Hamish had stopped eating altogether, and nothing would tempt him. I was a bit concerned, and although I suspected he may just have a tummy bug, I decided to withhold his medication just in case it was a reaction to the drug. First thing on Wednesday morning I had him back to the vet. Perhaps he has a blockage of the bowel, was the reaction this time, because he was a bit tender in this area on examination, and no, the tablets would not have caused any problems as they were extensively used and didn't have side-effects like this. So I left Hamish to have his x-ray to check out his bowels.

That afternoon I went back to collect him and was greeted with good news and bad news. First off, there was no blockage and everything there was in order, but, it was found he had hip dysplasia. This is when the hips no longer fit into the pelvic sockets, and in his case the sockets themselves were worn away. He would have to have major surgery I was told, and they believed that although it was bad, they could help him. Fine, that was a worry, but why has he stopped eating? This had them all baffled, but they decided to take a bl
ood test t
o see if that produced any answers. Meanwhile, I was told to continue with his medication untill the blood results came back.

Back home, I still felt uncomfortable about giving him the tablets, so I decided against it. Hamish would still eat nothing. Then on Thursday afternoon I received a call from the vet to say she had the results of his blood tests. It was not good news. The results showed Hamish was in renal failure, which basically means his kidneys were not working. The next few weeks was a nightmare I will never forget, and even now I can't talk about it any further other than to say Hamish did not recover.

Now you may think this is sad, but I should remember the good things, and the years we had together. HAMISH WAS TWO YEARS OLD.

I realise that it would appear that Hamish, due to the severity of his hip dysplasia, did have health problems, but what Rimadyl can do is ulcerate the lining of the stomach, causing internal bleeding and prevent the dog from eating due to the pain. The other side-effects related to the drug are renal and liver damage.

WHAT I UNCOVERED.

Initially, I refused to give up on Hamish, and one of the things which baffled both the vets and myself, was the not eating. Even if he did have renal failure, this was not usually how the illness presented, and indeed not how it proceeded. So I used the internet to see if I could find anything or anyone who could help, and after endless, fruitless, searches, I came across a story which sounded identical to mine. Then I looked further on this site and found more, and what all these people were blaming was a drug called Rimadyl.

Now at his point, the name, Rimadyl, meant nothing to me, but out of curiousity I dug out my receipts from the vet detailing the medications Hamish had been given; and there it was. The initial injection and tablets he had been given was Rimadyl. Coincidence? I called my vet immediately regarding
this, but she t
o this day denys this drug caused any problems.

So is Rimadyl a killer drug or not? To write here all the pros and cons on this drug would take forever, so I'll just give some of the guidelines the company which make the drug have issued. They believe it is as safe as any other drug in this catagory, but maintain that a veterinary surgeon should always discuss the possible side-effects with the pet owner before it is prescribed. There is also a leaflet that accompanies the drug which should always be given out with any tablets prescribed. Now although my experience involved renal failure, the most prevalent side-effect is in fact liver damage, which for some reason affects labradors and retrievers more than any other breed. It should also be established whether the patient has any underlying liver or kidney problems before treatment begins, and regular blood tests are advised throughout the period of use.

Now, although my experience with this drug was bad, there are thousands of dog owners who swear by it. It has given many dogs a better, painfree, life, so therefore I would not say avoid it if it is suitable for your pet. What I am saying is, look at the pros and cons first, and make an educated decision.

What I hope to achieve with this opinion, is general awareness of what your pet is being given. Contrary to the advice of the manufacturer, many vets do not discuss this drug's use, and administer it quite freely. I myself would never entertain Rimadyl ever again, and even though my vet knows this, my border collie had a lump removed a couple of weeks ago, and when I read the invoice detailing her treatment, I was very angry to find she had been given Rimadyl as a post-operative analgesic. So if by writing this, I save even one dog from suffering or dying needlessly, I will be happy.

For anyone who is interested in finding out more about this drug, I have added the following links, although a sear
ch engine will bring
hundreds more.

This link is for the actual leaflet which comes with the drug.

http://www.pfizer.com/ah/mypet/mydog/dhealth/d ripkg.html


This one is about a lawsuit against the company, and other links.

http://www.gooddogmagazine.com/rimadyllawsuit. htm


I should also have mentioned that Rimadyl is LETHAL to cats. Several cases have been reported of cats accidently getting hold of these tablets, and not one has survived. So please take care if you use this drug

here is info from fda

Advice to Dog Owners Whose Pets Take NSAIDs

I wonder if this is what happened to my last dog "Millie". Some of this sounds very familier.:(

Veterinary Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs)

Veterinary Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs)
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) are used to control the pain and inflammation associated with osteoarthritis. Inflammation - the body’s response to irritation or injury - is characterized by redness, warmth, swelling, and pain. NSAIDs work by blocking the production of prostaglandins, the body chemicals that cause inflammation.

In veterinary medicine approved veterinary NSAIDs are used to control the pain of osteoarthritis in dogs and some veterinary NSAIDs are approved for the control of postoperative pain in dogs. However, there are risks and benefits with all commonly prescribed veterinary drugs, including NSAIDs. Veterinarians and pet owners should be aware of the following facts:

Oral NSAIDs are approved for use in dogs only.
All dogs should undergo a thorough history and physical examination before beginning NSAID therapy.Appropriate blood/urine tests should be performed to establish baseline data prior to, and periodically during, administration of any NSAID.

Veterinary NSAIDS may be associated with gastrointestinal ulcers/perforations, liver, and kidney toxicity.

Use with other anti-inflammatory drugs, such as other NSAIDs and corticosteroids, should be avoided.

Patients at greatest risk for kidney problems are those that are dehydrated, are on diuretic treatment, or have pre-existing kidney, heart, and/or liver problems.

NSAIDs can cause stomach or intestinal bleeding.

Risks associated with NSAIDs are detailed on the package inserts and Client Information Sheets.

so sorry :( what happened to your little one?

I totally agree! All of the posts advising people not to listen to their vets about prescribed medications frightens me. ALL medications have side effects....that has been long established, whether for humans or animals. As you said, there are SO many dogs and so few people (percentage wise) whose pups have actually suffered from the side effects of the meds that were prescribed. Just because one or even ten dogs had side effects does not mean that a medication is bad or dangerous for all dogs.

Sometimes certain medications need to be given and the majority of vets look at the entire history of the pup and whether or not a certain medication is contraindicated. It is always good for a pet owner to be aware of medications and read about the pros and cons of giving them....and then, consult with their vet.

I have seen people suggest that a person give Tramadol to a dog that was prescribed Rimadyl. These are two different medications...often Rimadyl is indicated because the need to reduce inflammation is there...which will in turn help with pain. Tramadol only works for pain.

It does not sound like this pup died from an NSAID...surely something was going on. We don't have enough information to assume anything.

hopefully op will come back and give more info so we can know

so you think it is safe after what you have read to give dogs with liver disease nsaids? As Kellie has stated in other posts it is safe yet vets and specialists who know about liver disease would never prescribe an nsaid to a liver disease dog.

Are you aware most vets are not familiar with liver disease in maltese and yorkie breed as is stated over and over on here?

Are you aware most vets do not run blood panels before putting dogs under anesthesia for a spay or neuter? Neither of mine had blood panels 6 years ago prior to their spay or neuter and I had no clue about all this stuff 6 years ago and that was two different vets as dex was neutered by one vet and Dee Dee was spay by another. I doubt mine are the only dogs this has happened to.

I say educate yourself about nsaids and dogs with liver disease should NOT ever have nsaids.

Do you also think nsaids should be given with a snack or mid meal? See below it can perforate a bowel so why would you give with a snack and not mid meal? Why would you not protect the intestines as best you can when giving this drug knowing it can cause ulcers, internal bleeding, and perforation - why would you tell someone a snack or on empty stomach is ok and not mid meal as Kellie has stated it is ok on empty stomach or with a snack which i strongly disagree with?

Sorry not warning people of this drug and its potential harm especially in dogs with liver disease which runs rampant in this breed is deadly. Most vets do not give out the pamphlet nor instruct owners. I was given rimadyl, deramaxx, and metacam to my dogs all three over the course of 6 years with NO INSTRUCTION or WARNING. All being from 3 different vets for those meds. I had to find the info on the internet from FDA after Jean Dodds emailed NO NSAIDS after vet gave dd metacam on empty stomach while on steroids with mvd. I doubt this is the only vet in the country doing this.

In a healthy dog with no issues then you can make that choice but if you have a dog with health issues then tramadol is the better drug even without anti-inflammatory.

Tramadol and nsaids can be mixed to add extra relief in a healthy dog but there is still risk

Nsaids and steroids can NEVER be mixed as both affect the lining of stomach and it can do a double whamy on that dog like it did mine.

Nsaids are NOT to be used in liver disease dogs and that should always be questioned.

Do you really think every vet knows everything about every drug and informs the pet owners when giving the drug? Or do they trust the pharmaceutical companies and just prescribe the drugs?

No one is telling anyone not to LISTEN to their vets - I am telling them to QUESTION their vets - there is a difference and nothing wrong with asking questions and understanding as maybe the vet forgot like the vet forgot my dd had hives on simplicef and almost gave her a convenia shot which would have been a problem. They make mistakes and are not always on their game 100% of the time. My mom is type 2 diabetes and when she broke her wrist they came in with a shot to give her and she said you remember I am type 2 diabetes and they said OMG good thing you said something this shot could have killed you. It happens to humans and dogs.

I tend to question and research and understand for myself and it has saved my dogs going through unnecessary testing like scintigraphy. I never think it is a bad thing to educate yourself and understand what is going on. I just cannot 100% trust one human being with my health nor my pets health as they are only human and can only know so much so I feel it is a team effort especially with a sick dog.

First off, i don't go around telling everyone its ok for them to give their liver compromised dog NSAIDs. In that one case i said to listen to the vet, and its not unheard of that a vet gave NSAIDs after surgery. i don't know why you keep bringing this up. its ridiculous. get over it.

Secondly, I said that you do not have to give the pill mid meal like you described (feed half, give pill, fed other half). It is suggested to give the meds with food but not required as it can cause upset stomach in some dogs (just like it can with people). I said its ok to give the pill with a meal or snack, meaning as long as your giving it with food its ok (before, during, after, doesn't matter). And (i can't believe i have to clearly state this for you) a snack is not like one treat and the pill, or a dab of cream cheese and the pill. a snack is a portion of food that is smaller then a full meal. It is a light meal or food eaten between meals... :rolleyes:

snack to some people can mean TREAT Kellie and most people give their dogs meals or treats.

I told this person to question the vet you said no big deal your dog takes nsaids and has mvd and questioning vet was not of concern to you. Crystal even said she would question it as well.

Mid meal is safest the more food the better - read the part ulcers, perforation, intestinal bleeding. This is the reason you give mid meal as yes if the dog gets an upset stomach they can get any of the above. You also stated to me it was safe to even give on empty stomach which is very dangerous.

It is not safe to give liver disease dogs nsaids so I will ALWAYS tell the pet owner to question this drug when their dog has liver issues.

All it takes is for you to tell one owner and someone else reads it and thinks it is ok

None of what the OP has stated would lead anyone to believe it was NSAID's (antiinflammatory) related. NSAID's are not commonly used as the primary med for post-op pain relief.

but they are what is commonly used after surgery :(

What was your dog prescribed after spay or neuter? Mine were prescribed rimadyl and the other dermamaxx which are nsaids.

Kellie worked for an orthopedic and she can tell you that is exactly what they prescribe after surgeries.

I honestly don't know the whole story...It was a stomach virus. That's all I really know.

so the dog did not have surgery as stated here?

Was the stomach virus before or after the surgery?

Did the vet tell your friend the dog died of a stomach virus?

i cannot control how people interpret my words.

actually what i said was: "honestly i'm not concerned about the metacam. Morgan has MVD and i give it to her without problems and i know plenty of other dogs that have used metacam as well." Since you want to nit pick everything i say i will clarify. 1) i was not concerned about the metacam use in that particular case because of all the other things that were going on with the dog. 2) Morgan has asymptomatic MVD and I have given her Metacam. nothing else to add to that. yes she has MVD and yes i've given her metacam in the past with no problems. 3) Yes i know of other cases where dogs were given NSAIDs (usually metacam) when they had liver issues. These cases also had other problems that were more pressing and needed the anti-inflammatory.

do you eat a full meal every time you take advil, motrin or aleve? those are NSAIDs as well.

You cannot make a general statement saying it is "very dangerous" to take the drug on an empty stomach, because it is not. Sure you may have only hard about the horrible cases but that doesn't mean there aren't millions of other cases that did wonderfully on the drug this way.

Metacam and Rimadyl both state that they do not require food to be given with the medication. Some dogs can take it on an empty stomach and have no problems what so ever no matter how long they take it. Some dogs can get an upset stomach this way so it is usually recommended to give it with food just in case to prevent this (or at least that's what i always told owners. just like prescription human meds, they can cause upset stomach so its best to give with food). Some dogs can also have more serious adverse reactions to it (just like with any drug) no matter when you give the drug and with what.

everyone needs to remember that there are at least 70 million dogs in the US alone - each dog is an individual and has its very own individual problems. You cannot generalize problems. Each and every case is different. what happens to one dog may not happen to another. every dog reacts differently, even if they have similar issues. When an owner is concerned its best to ask the vet any questions you may have, even if you think its a minor concern. do your own research, and then bring those questions to a professional.

well some people can take that as give the dog the pill with a treat and they will be ok

This particular dog had liver shunt surgery much more dangerous than a asymptomatic mvd dog.

lol you are not the only one on here that gets their words nit picked lol

actually I do take nsaids with a meal never on empty stomach or with a snack and I weigh alot more than 6lbs so for a smaller dog I think the risk is greater and I do not have liver disease or I would not take with liver disease.

So after reading intestinal bleeding, ulcers, and perforation of bowel you still feel safe to give on empty stomach? I just want to be clear in what you are suggesting is ok?

Where did you read on the instructions that it says it is ok to give on empty stomach?

Advice to Dog Owners Whose Pets Take NSAIDs

Treating Pain in Your Dog

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalV.../UCM050394.pdf

oh and I did call to report the reaction my dog had and all they say is you should take your dog in for blood work immediately to make sure liver and kidneys are functioning properly.

Most Vaccine and medication reactions are not reported sadly as I do not believe the vet has to report it do they? Are they really telling the owner - hey the drug i gave your dog caused the kidneys to fail so your dog died of renal failure? Or do they say I am so sorry your dog has renal failure? I think the latter of the two is probably the case and most pet owners are not educated to know the difference unless they stumble across it on the internet trying to find out why their two year old dog died of renal failure

Also due to intestinal upset with nsaids specialists also advise against nsaids in dogs with IBD as well.

Not exactly why we are on this topic yet again; but I just want to say this: everything in medicine whether vet or human is not black or white. What
happens to one dog does not mean it will happen in another. Because it is
not recommended that a certain medication not be given with certain other
meds or with certain conditions does not mean it should never be given. A
lot of different things are weighed very carefully. Pharmacology is a very
complicated field. I cannot count right now how many pups I have had in
my home that took NSAIDS for various conditions....there have been many.
I have never had a problem. I have never been given an NSAID for pain
after surgery unless an anti inflammatory was needed.

I also want to say this yet again: every single medication has risks to it.....
there is not one I can name that does not have a long list of side effects.
but that does not mean it cannot be given safely. Yes, some will experience the
side effects....that is unavoidable; but, sometimes medications are necessary.