Need help in caring for Diamond
 

Hi all.....A friend of mine asked me to babysit her dogs while she is away on vacation. They are a male and female Pomeranians. Her daughter bred the 2 poms and the male is twice as large as Diamond.... needless to say the puppies were too large and she shattered her pelvis bones, hips I guess...anyway she was taken to their vet and he operated on Diamond. Now she does not walk right and is totally BALD except for her head and legs. Her skin is so dry it feels like a snake. What can we put on Diamond to make her skin feel better and help her to deal with her situation. It would be nice to be able to help this precious dog even if it is for dry skin. Thanks in advance for all your help.

I have absolutely no advice but am just shocked by those pictures! What does the vet say he thinks is wrong with her? Could it be a thyroid problem? Was she spayed after shattering her pelvis during the birth of her puppies? What about the male Pom was he neutered? Obviously they should never have been allowed to mate in the first place if he was that much larger then Diamond. I want to cry. :(

Oh, that poor little girl!! That is so heartbreaking!! I can't believe her owners were so cruel.

Has she been checked for mange? Her skin looks really raw which that with the hair loss is usually associated with mange. She will need medication and special dips otherwise it will just get worse. I can't even imagine the pain she is in. She needs to see a vet right away.

Oh the poor little thing, that is so sad :( Some people are clueless, How painful that must have been for her! It's probably best for her to get a prescription for her skin condition, it looks really bad :(

I would just keep her clean by using a baby mild pet shampoo such at this: Organic Pet Shampoo - Vermont Soap Organics I'd also use a baby sunscreen on her too. Poor little thing.

After her surgery and all the medicine all her hair fell out. Her vet just kept giving her more medacine than to make the hair grow back. That never happened. Now she rubs Skin so soft on her everyday and keeps clothes on her. This has happened a few years ago and the vet never did spay the dog. Go figure! I live hours away and this is my 2nd time seeing the dog and the 1st time she had clothes on. She is just exstremely dry and the sweetest angel you ever want to meet. i took her clothes off for the picture but she is not raw at all just dry and wrinkle looking

poms get alopecia x sounds like that is what is going on - I will get you the info

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/alopeci...ogs/page1.aspx

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_alopecia_x.html

her hair did not fall out from surgery she was probably susceptible to alopecia X as it runs heavily in pom breed. She can see a dermatologist regarding it. A skin biopsy will confirm it but i can tell it definitely is alopecia X as there are some poms on my allergy group that look just like that with alopecia X and i read alot of dermatology books as my yorkie has allergies so i am always learning about skin

Alopecia X

melatonin can help but i would be under the advice of a dermatologist. The skin so soft is good or coconut oil to keep skin moist and clothes are good too so skin does not get sunburned. My derm calls it tshirt therapy. My dd wears tshirts all the time to keep pollens off the skin and keep her from itching her self and damaging the skin

join this pom forum as they are probably very familiar with it and can make some suggestions

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/PomForum/

you guys are amazing...in a few hours I have so much wonderful information. I feel like I have gotten such an education on Poms and can now talk to the owners about getting this dog spayed and starting on some of this great info. I am also really going to find out the name of this vet I think he should be reported. How could he repair this little dog and not spay her knowing what happened to bring her into his office in the first place. Than to not properly diagnose this dog all this time till these people got to the point of saying they have had enough they can not afford to keep going and nothing else gets done. Thank you sooo sooo much I really appreciate all your help luv u guys!

Do you know if this pup has had a full workup done by the vet? This could be Alopecia X which is also pseudo cushings, BUT a full workup should be done to rule out other things such as cushings. Those two conditions are very similar and it can be difficult to differntiate between the two.

I would never just assume it is one thing without a proper workup.

I have a little bald yorkie who does have pseudo cushings and he is on Melatonin which is working a little bit. He started on it in April and does have a bit more hair. They say it takes up to two months to work. BUT, don't do that unless a vet has done a full workup. Cushings and Alopecia X are very similar and it can be difficult to differentiate. If she does not have a really good vet then I would suggest an internal med specialist.

To tell you the truth I really don't know much more about this baby than what I have mentioned above. It really sounds like they had one heck of a quack vet and he soaked them for so much money they are now saying to me your our vet we can't take any more of this we are on a limited income and we just can't drain ourselves anymore. Well she is here for 2 weeks and I would take her and get her fixed but she is in heat and guess what they brought the male not nutered here with her. She is 8 years old and a little sweetheart. I feel so uneducated on Pom's and all these illnesses. I have never had any of this with my Yorkies but I am taking many notes and I would love to find out who this vet is and have this dogs file sent over to my vet so we can see what they have or haven't done. But, now I have to wait for their return to get any more information. So, while they are gone I am getting an education thanks to YT and a plan of action so when they get back I can tell them exactly what we think needs to be done and maybe I can try and raise some money to help with her surgery and blood work. I am now planning a yard sale and putting a few old things on Ebay. Hopefully we can get Miss Diamond straightened out a little better. I am sure she will never walk right again but maybe we can help her with her other issues.

Please, please tell the owner of this pup to get checked for Cushings and have her thyroid checked. With her skin being "dry, snake-y" and also the shape of her body - she really needs to be checked for typical Cushings.

Does she pee and drink alot? Is she overly hungry? Lethargic? Does she pant? Any areas of redness on the skin? Exercise intolerance? Anything else?

i don't have any suggestions but just wanted to say that I hope you can get that poor baby some relief. :(

She seems to have a good appetite and has mainly stayed to herself since she came in late Sunday night. She is in heat with this male here so it has been difficult to just monitor her. Coupled with the fact that I am at my busy time of year with 3 litters of yorkie babies in. The poor dog does not know me or my home and animals and you know new Mommies are none to thrilled with strangers around so this has all been a bit overwhelming for us all. But, I now have her in the living room with me alone so I can monitor her. She does not seem to pee a lot and she is very protective over her food but is not consuming a whole lot of food. I have placed her food and water bowl close to her and I am not seeing her drink an abundance amount of water either. I am going to call my vet and see if she can do the blood work up. I am sure it hasn't been done in ages anyway, you are right let us start there.

Cushings testing is sort of a process...and not sure if your friend is willing to spend the $, but it should really be done. The first step is the urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio. This test can somewhat conclusively rule OUT Cushings, however, if it is positive - you then have to move to the more conclusive and definitive and expensive testing.

For the urine test, you have to catch the urine at home, bc you want the cortisol (stress hormone) levels to be measured *there*, not at the vet office - where she is super stressed and will produce excess cortisol. It should be first urine of morning--> if she pees on a tile floor, you can suck it up into a clean syringe.

I wonder...is there a reason her current vet has not tested her thyroid and/or for Cushings?

my question is why did the vet let this dog have those pups if the male was so much bigger than the female. He should have spayed her back then and she would not have shattered her pelvis trying to have puppies that were too big. I feel so bad for this little girl :(

it sounds like they paid for alot of testing from op but who knows what kind of testing :(

First is does cushings run in pom breed alot as it runs in yorkie breed but not sure on pom breed but i do know alopecia x runs in that breed alot.

Good idea ann as looks like cost is an issue so figuring this out the cheapest way possible for this owner will be good. I know the thyroid panel is not that expensive and would be good to rule it out completely but my gut is this is alopecia x.

I will say the derm just told me with thyroid the dogs hair usually thins out all over but have read it is on the lumbar region but dd had it on neck mostly but she is thin all over too if that helps

Make sure if doing thyroid panel it is all 6 values not just T4

ann do you have any poms on cushings group?

here is info on cushings and symptoms from a vet website

Hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's Syndrome) in Dogs

here is info on hypothyroidism from a vet website

Hypothyroidism in Dogs

i have a hypot dog and she was smelly and musky smelling as well as hair loss

sorry keep thinking of things :)

does she have a pot belly? Cushings dogs usually have pot bellies due to excess cortisol production. Ann please correct me if i am wrong just trying to throw out some things too look for as i think of it but Ann has much more experience on cushings since her dog has this but i have read alot on it due to my dog being on steroids and having cushing type symptoms on prednisone and why she is on prednisolone now. DD gained alot of weight and looked like a pot belly pig on prednisone as they produce too much cortisol if on a high dose of prednisone. She went from 5lbs to 8lbs not good

Yeah, I'm wondering too about what testing was done - bc that would be interesting.

Cushings runs in Yorkies, poodles, beagles, boston terr, boxers, and dachshunds - mostly. Pseudo Cushings (X) is common in Poms - but the steps in delineating/typing the typical Cushings from pseudo are still largely the same. (blood work + signalment evaluation)

Typical or Atypical is more suspected if she has some of the other clinical signs/signalment present, like what I mentioned previously, and/or: pot belly, muscle wasting in legs, face/head, ear infections, depression. Can also show aggression due to increased cortisol in system.

A basic chem profile is an inexpensive place to start. There are often clues in them. In most cushings dogs, you will see an elevated ALT.

As Wylie's Mom has said, there are tests that need to be done beyond that, but it is a good place to start.

Yep....I have a yorkie with pseudo cushings so assuming based on breed is not an accurate way to diagnose.

He did not have an elevated ALT which led my vet from the beginning to think it was probably psuedo cushings, BUT that alone also was not enough. We did many other tests, including the biopsies and the ACTH stim test.

Many will have a pot belly, or some obesity - but then they'll have "muscle wasting" in legs, shoulders, head, pelvis.

But, not all will have weight gain. Wylie, for example, had his normal little athletic body - no gain at all. His signalment was pyoderma, ear issues, polydipsia/polyuria, fur thinning. He did have muscle loss in legs etcetera.

so how much are the cost of testing if she wants to rule this out as cheap as possible by that urine catch?

i think thyroid testing i paid $70 for all 6 panels and blood work is usually a little over 100

LJ how much was the punch biopsy as i think you did that on yours?

The urine cortisol-creatinine-ratio test isn't cheap, but it's usually where they start when Cushings is suspected bc it's the cheapest way to rule it out. I believe it's btwn $80-100. Whereas the ACTH Stim can be $200-400, easy.

For thyroid, we did the TSH, T3, and free T4 - if I'm not mistaken, we don't do the 6-panel for Wylie (he is hypothyroid too, btw) OY VEY :).

The biopsies on him were $49 but that does not include sedation and they sent the samples away for the histocytology which was $90.

I have been meaning to ask my vet about the six panel test. It has never been suggested to me and I have had many pups tested for thyroid.

Thyroid is a cheap test!

My Pom had Cushing's and it was pretty expensive to diagnose. She had lost a lot of her fur but not that much. It did come back with treatment. I hope they can figure out what is going on with her.

dr dodds said tsh is a waste it is only 70% accurate in dogs and 95% accurate in humans. It is more expensive as well as i asked about it when she ran the 6 panel thyroid. The first time to diagnose they run all 6 panels but no TSH. Once they know the dog has hypot no need to keep running all 6 - I will check dd blood work but it is not all 6 after that as i questioned that.

The 6 panel is T4FREE, T4, T3FREE, T3, T4AA, T3AA - this should be done through michigan state lab or dr dodds but antech or idexx i believe can do it as well. The T4free should be 1.0 for yorkies per jean. Dee Dee was .38 on T4FREE when jean rant test. She was .78 the year prior so she dropped alot in one year. So she should have been on meds the year prior when vet only ran t4free :( and may have not lost all that hair.

Is wylie the one with allergies on atopica? If so hypoT and allergies go hand in hand - poor immune systems:( STINKS - I think it is a sebaceous gland excretion that causes the odor

HypoT dogs run hot and have a stinky musky smell as the thyroid is the bodies thermometer i believe