Luxating Patella Help :(
 

Hi,

I have two 5 month yorkie girls Maya and Lily. When I went for my first Vet visit when they were 10 weeks old, the vet told me that Maya has weak knee caps and we will have to watch for that, but Lily was fine. Now, Maya is not a jumper & she is scared to jump of any furniture but Lily jumps very high. Two days ago, I came home from work and Lily was limping - badly. She couldn't put her paw down, step on it and she was just walking on three legs. Next morning it was much better and she was able to walk, but I took her to see the vet anyways.

The vet said that Lily has very weak knee caps in both her rear legs. They gave me a handout about the disease and said that they were born with this so it was passed along from the parents and they strongly advised me not to breed. The nurse was angry that the breeder keeps breeding puppies with this condition and doesn't say anything to the buyers. I had a dog named Lily from the same breeder who was almost 4 when she was hit by a car and I never had any problems so I decided to get my new girls from the same woman trusting her and thinking she is honest... Was I wrong. I mean what is a chance of buying two girls that have the same condition ???

Anyways, the vet didn't do xrays so I don't know what stage they are at. I see it is getting better but at least once a day I see her limping especially when they play together. Vet told me that it is something new so Lily doesn't really know what it is and she will figure out on her own how to pup it back in. I have doggy steps which I bought when I found out about Maya's weak knee caps when they were 10 weeks old. Other than that I don't know any preventive forms.

The vet told me there is nothing I can do for them. They are not in pay because they don't cry, so they can live with it. She didn't do any xrays so I don't know how bad it is. I'm thinking it's probably the 1st or 2nd stage because she seems ok - only sometimes would raise the leg up for a minute or two and then she seems ok again.

I researched online but it doesn't say if there are any supplements you can take like glucosamine.
Can anyone tell me anything helpful? Did anyone went through anything like this or the surgery??? How much is a surgery like that? I'm looking at probably operating on both of them but as a last resort only. I want to do it the natural way first and see if there is anything I can do to make their life easier.

It's really hard for me to see Lily limping because I lost my other dog 4 months ago and I would do anything to make them not go thru this. They are so small and innocent it makes me want to cry, and it makes me soooo angry at the breeder because she is causing pain not only for the puppies but also for the owners.

:_(

I would contact the breeder to make her aware these puppies have LP. Did you have a contract or Health Guarantee? Depending on the laws in your state, you may have specific legal rights regarding the breeders responsibility.

I'm a firm believer in glucosamine. I give to Alex, my oldest, and it helps his arthritis so much. I've read where other members have noticed improvements after they started giving glucosamine to their lp pups. I use and recommend Cosequin.

Jada has stage 1 LP and our vet has her on glucosamine. She gets it every morning right after her breakfast. She has never limped and she uses stairs to get on the couch and I never let her on the bed unless I am on the bed with her.

I sent the breeder a letter because I'm not able to speak with her - I'm just so angry I might say hurtful things to her.
I don't have a health guarantee because she is not going to breed anymore. I trusted her since I had a very healthy puppy for almost 4 years that I bought from her, so it's also my fault that I didn't question more.

Where can I get the glucosamine ? Would that be something over the counter or my vet would have that. I don't understand why the vet said there is nothing I can do and when I asked about supplements they said there is nothing out there that would help - but you know what if you don't try, you don't know right?

Thanks guys.

I would definitely give her the supplements like glucosamine and such. I can say that at our first vet visit with Maggie, the vet said that her knees were a little loose but now at almost 2, she fine.

Hot Rod went from a grade 1 to a grade 3 in a matter of months and had surgery on his knee. :( His knee is perfect now. :)

Maybe the jumping aggravated it (?) I wouldn't worry about it too much at this point just yet. My vet told me that all pups probably have a litte loose knee at some point. Just be careful and watch your babies...keep them from jumping and such. Try and get stairs or ramps to keep them from jumping, this may help and give them time to get a bit stronger. Best of luck.

You can get it at Petsmart or at local feed/ag supply store. Cosequin is pretty expensive at Petsmart so I order mine from www.Entirelypets.com.

I have been told to give the cosequin for cats. The dosage is just right for these little guys and I think less expensive.

Hi there!
A couple of years ago, my little Shelby went thru LP surgery on both back knees. We went to an orthopedic veterinarian who had experience with this surgery. (I recommend finding an orthopedic vet if surgery is necessary). The surgery was costly.... 2000+ but I am including the physical therapy sessions that Shelby had following the surgery. Her knees are much better, but we still do glucosamine supplements.
We decided that she should have the surgery because she had a higher grade of LP. It was a difficult decision, but by using an ortho vet that came with high recommendations, everything went well. Recuperation was a bit tough (we were home with her a lot the first week and she had to be crated if we were out of the room). I really think it depends what grade LP your Yorkie has.
Best Wishes!

I think you should get a second opinion. Try a vet recommended for treating small breeds. It'll get worse over time, not better. If you see her trembling, that's pain, not fear.

Reesie had LP surgery at age 3, the right knee was stage 2 and the left was stage 4. She's just fine now and zips around like nothing was ever wrong.

Libby was diagnosed with grade 2 LP in both back legs and that was before she was a year old. I started giving her Flexicose and she has not had any problems in a long, long time and she turned 3 today. My vet told me to not let her get overweight because that would add stress on the knees. She is as fit as a fiddle and runs, jumps and plays with no problems. Flexicose is a liquid glucosamine complex and I think it's wonderful stuff. I used to get mine at the Flexicose site, but now I buy it on Ebay and get it much cheaper.

Good luck with your little sweeties! I do think a glucosamine supplement would be a good thing to start with them. Hopefully you will have the same results as I have had with Libby!

I have no advise but good luck and I'm sure everything will be fine

Both of mine have LP. Buster has it in both legs, Maggie only one leg. The last time Buster was checked he was a grade 4. I have an orthopedic vet and he has told me surgery would not be necessary until it affected his quality of life. Sometimes he will carry one of his legs but not for long. The vet also said to not let him get over weight. He does good most of the time. Maggie chases him around the back yard at full speed and he never carries his leg. I am careful to not let him jump off of the furniture, etc. I have steps for him to get up on the bed. I would watch them and see if they are in pain a lot of the time or just now and then.

:thumbup:

I am always happy to see that some vets are not jumping up and recommending surgery as the first option. Many of these pups can live out their lives without having LP surgery. My Maxwell lived for 10 years with his (longer, but that is how long I had him) and only on occasion would his knee give him a problem; but thankfully it was a short lived limp here and there. I have had others with what I refer to as "poppy knees" that you can feel in your hands when you pick them up and none have had to have surgery.

There is always a risk of an ACL tear because of an unstable knee, but usually that can be avoided if they are not jumping.

Important to keep weight off of them and not to let them jump on and off of furniture.

I have also heard that glucosamine helps them but have not had first hand experience.

Here is a great article on luxating patellas:

Medial Luxating Patella

I'd suggest taking both of them to a board certified orthopedic vet for an evaluation.

I agree as I always use board certified vets for these types of cases. The one I use does not believe in being hasty about LP surgery which is why I posted what I did.

This is the cosequin I give to Uni. Cosequin Regular Strength (180 capsules) There's also a smaller bottle of 90 caps for $27.99 but I get the 180 caps b/c i like this product and will continue to use it.

Uni first lifted her leg last summer after jumping around on the beach and in the waves. She only did it that ONE time, and I haven't seen her do it again. Yet she was diagnosed with grade 3 in both knees. I feel her knees pop all the time, however, again haven't seen her lift since. i wonder if my vet didn't correctly diagnose, or if other vets didn't correctly diagnose, b/c I am reading all over YT pups with grade 1 and 2 lifting all the time.

I don't think I will do surgery for her. If it really gets way worse then I will think about it, but the cosequin is working well. Recovery time is 8 WEEKS! i don't think I could have her lay low for that long.

I'm no expert but a LP is a mechanical problem. Not everything can be fixed by taking a drug, that only prolongs the inevitable. Recovery times vary but what I noticed about Reesie is that she DIDN'T want to move around in the weeks after surgery and stayed put in her little safe place. What convinced us that surgery was necessary was her poor squeaking whenever she slipped on the floor or tried chasing a toy. If it was your knee what would you do?

Trust me, 8 weeks is a short time to deal with when you think about the rest of their little lives being pain/symptom free. :)

Each case is quite different. Surgery is indicated when there is a problem that causes discomfort, which is what you are saying happened to Reesie.
Many pups live long lives with LP and never require surgery....and never have issues with their knees! Surgery is not inevitable with LP!

I have quite large veterinary bills and spare no expense when surgery is indicated. Anyone who knows me, knows that this is the case! I would never let a pup suffer....I also would not amputate a limb because of the cost of repair which I have seen. I know anyone doing that would not do that to their own limb...but, that is another topic. I am simply saying that I take no short cuts at all! I have consulted with my vet and also a board certified vet regarding LP and it is not necessary to operate on every one of them.

Sounds to me like her pup IS symptom free. Why would she do surgery?

That is a good link...and here is another one:

Luxating Patellas

The luxation itself doesn't cause pain. It's when arthritis sets in that it becomes painful. Often it is too late for a successful surgery then.

It is not a good thing to have one’s knee cap out of place; the entire weight-bearing stress of the rear leg is altered which, in time, leads to changes in the hips, long bones, and ultimately arthritis. How severe the changes are depend on how severe the luxation is (i.e. the grade as described above) and how long that degree of luxation has been going on. In time, the legs will actually turn outward with its muscles turning inward, making the dog “bow-legged.” The luxation is not considered a painful condition but after enough time and conformational change, arthritis sets in, which is indeed painful.

Medial Luxating Patella

We have a little Maltese on another forum whose front legs are now so bowed from his bad knees that he is in constant pain. His owner took a "wait & see" attitude per her vet until he was six and he started shows signs of pain. She then took him to an orthopedic vet and was told it was too late to do the surgery. The poor guy has to be on Tramadol for the rest of his life to help with the pain.

That's why it is so important to get knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet and if surgery is recommended, not to wait until it is too late.

What do his front legs have to do with his knees?

And, pain is not the only measurement....these pups start limping and not using their leg when the LP is really getting worse. Not ALL LPs progress that far!

Honestly, they will get arthritis anyway. Yes, a board certified orthopedic vet is always the way to go.

Was the vet she went to board certified? I have a vet here who has performed surgery in some really BAD cases...and successfully. I have a pup who had a genetic problem in both hind legs....and his knee was literally backwards in one leg. I went to an ortho vet who told me that his knees were inoperable....went to a board cert. vet who FIXED his knee! So...always a second opinion!

I do find it hard to believe that a pup could be ignored by a vet for that long. Signs indicating surgery show up LONG before the knees are that bad.

Is this person who owns this maltese is anywhere near the Houston area, I would be happy to share this vet's name ... he is wonderful! I have seen other surgeries by him that were amazing.

Max has stage 2 LP.
I got Max's Cosequin DS and Cosequin Bonelets on ebay.
Best price :thumbup:
WAY cheaper than vet's office or online stores.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Compensating for the bad knees puts abnormal stress on other joints which cause arthritic changes.

I believe bow legs are a fairly common side effect of severely luxated patellas:

If both legs are affected, the dog may adopt a crouched gait and posture, appear bow legged and may even walk on the forelegs with the hind legs completely off the ground.

Luxating patella - a knee cap problem in dogs | Vetwest Animal Hospitals

•Grade IV. The patella cannot be replaced manually, and the leg is carried or used in a crouching position. Extension of the stifle is virtually impossible. Tibial rotation is quite severe, resulting in a "bow legged" appearance.

Patellar Luxation in Small Breed Dogs Teri Dickinson, DVM Luxated patellas or "slipped stifles" are a common orthopedic problem in small dogs. A study of 542 affected individuals revealed that dogs classified as small (adult weight 9 kg (20 lbs) or l

She is on the East coast, but I believe she has found an excellent orthopedic vet. In case I confused you, it's not the LP surgery that would be difficult, it's the severely bowed legs from arthritis that would be difficult and very costly to correct at this point.

20/20 hindsight, she wishes she had consulted an orthopedic vet much earlier instead of waiting until he developed pain.

That was the point I was trying to make, that it is important to have the knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet once your regular vet has made a diagnosis of luxating patellas. They are the most qualified to diagnose and prescribe treatment based on your dog's particular case.

I am assuming you meant the hind legs are bowed? Or are you saying her back legs were that bad and a vet ignored it until the front legs did that? Just very confusing to me.

And, yes, you are right....I don't play with that kind of thing. BUT, I have pups with LP who have not been to an ortho vet because they simply do not need to go. As soon as there are symptoms I will take them. Just because they pop on an exam does not, imo require an ortho vet. That is Grade 1....and I still find it extremely difficult to understand how that woman's dogs legs got that bad over night. There should have been symptoms!

Here is what I am trying to say.....it says that when they are that bad, they probably never walked correctly....so HOW did her vet miss it?

The following is from: Knee Problems In Your Dog - Patellar Luxation - Luxating Patella

Chloe is 6mo. old and was diagnosed with bilateral LP about a month and half ago. I have been giving her Dasuquin (supplement) daily. The vet prescribed it and I purchased the first dose from the vet's office and all the refills online (much better price).

here is some info on dasuquin
Dasuquin® for Dogs | Nutramax Laboratories, Inc.