Luxating Patella Help :(

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Here is a great article on luxating patellas:

Medial Luxating Patella

I'd suggest taking both of them to a board certified orthopedic vet for an evaluation.

I agree as I always use board certified vets for these types of cases. The one I use does not believe in being hasty about LP surgery which is why I posted what I did.

[capt_noonie]

This is the cosequin I give to Uni. Cosequin Regular Strength (180 capsules) There's also a smaller bottle of 90 caps for $27.99 but I get the 180 caps b/c i like this product and will continue to use it.

Uni first lifted her leg last summer after jumping around on the beach and in the waves. She only did it that ONE time, and I haven't seen her do it again. Yet she was diagnosed with grade 3 in both knees. I feel her knees pop all the time, however, again haven't seen her lift since. i wonder if my vet didn't correctly diagnose, or if other vets didn't correctly diagnose, b/c I am reading all over YT pups with grade 1 and 2 lifting all the time.

I don't think I will do surgery for her. If it really gets way worse then I will think about it, but the cosequin is working well. Recovery time is 8 WEEKS! i don't think I could have her lay low for that long.

[ReesiesDad]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

.........
I don't think I will do surgery for her. If it really gets way worse then I will think about it, but the cosequin is working well. Recovery time is 8 WEEKS! i don't think I could have her lay low for that long.

I'm no expert but a LP is a mechanical problem. Not everything can be fixed by taking a drug, that only prolongs the inevitable. Recovery times vary but what I noticed about Reesie is that she DIDN'T want to move around in the weeks after surgery and stayed put in her little safe place. What convinced us that surgery was necessary was her poor squeaking whenever she slipped on the floor or tried chasing a toy. If it was your knee what would you do?

[Mom to Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

I don't think I will do surgery for her. If it really gets way worse then I will think about it, but the cosequin is working well. Recovery time is 8 WEEKS! i don't think I could have her lay low for that long.

Trust me, 8 weeks is a short time to deal with when you think about the rest of their little lives being pain/symptom free.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ReesiesDad

I'm no expert but a LP is a mechanical problem. Not everything can be fixed by taking a drug, that only prolongs the inevitable. Recovery times vary but what I noticed about Reesie is that she DIDN'T want to move around in the weeks after surgery and stayed put in her little safe place. What convinced us that surgery was necessary was her poor squeaking whenever she slipped on the floor or tried chasing a toy. If it was your knee what would you do?

Each case is quite different. Surgery is indicated when there is a problem that causes discomfort, which is what you are saying happened to Reesie.
Many pups live long lives with LP and never require surgery....and never have issues with their knees! Surgery is not inevitable with LP!

I have quite large veterinary bills and spare no expense when surgery is indicated. Anyone who knows me, knows that this is the case! I would never let a pup suffer....I also would not amputate a limb because of the cost of repair which I have seen. I know anyone doing that would not do that to their own limb...but, that is another topic. I am simply saying that I take no short cuts at all! I have consulted with my vet and also a board certified vet regarding LP and it is not necessary to operate on every one of them.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Mom to Hot Rod

Trust me, 8 weeks is a short time to deal with when you think about the rest of their little lives being pain/symptom free.

Sounds to me like her pup IS symptom free. Why would she do surgery?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Here is a great article on luxating patellas:

Medial Luxating Patella

I'd suggest taking both of them to a board certified orthopedic vet for an evaluation.

That is a good link...and here is another one:

Luxating Patellas

[Ladymom]

The luxation itself doesn't cause pain. It's when arthritis sets in that it becomes painful. Often it is too late for a successful surgery then.

It is not a good thing to have one’s knee cap out of place; the entire weight-bearing stress of the rear leg is altered which, in time, leads to changes in the hips, long bones, and ultimately arthritis. How severe the changes are depend on how severe the luxation is (i.e. the grade as described above) and how long that degree of luxation has been going on. In time, the legs will actually turn outward with its muscles turning inward, making the dog “bow-legged.” The luxation is not considered a painful condition but after enough time and conformational change, arthritis sets in, which is indeed painful.

Medial Luxating Patella

We have a little Maltese on another forum whose front legs are now so bowed from his bad knees that he is in constant pain. His owner took a "wait & see" attitude per her vet until he was six and he started shows signs of pain. She then took him to an orthopedic vet and was told it was too late to do the surgery. The poor guy has to be on Tramadol for the rest of his life to help with the pain.

That's why it is so important to get knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet and if surgery is recommended, not to wait until it is too late.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

The luxation itself doesn't cause pain. It's when arthritis sets in that it becomes painful. Often it is too late for a successful surgery then.

It is not a good thing to have one’s knee cap out of place; the entire weight-bearing stress of the rear leg is altered which, in time, leads to changes in the hips, long bones, and ultimately arthritis. How severe the changes are depend on how severe the luxation is (i.e. the grade as described above) and how long that degree of luxation has been going on. In time, the legs will actually turn outward with its muscles turning inward, making the dog “bow-legged.” The luxation is not considered a painful condition but after enough time and conformational change, arthritis sets in, which is indeed painful.

Medial Luxating Patella

We have a little Maltese on another forum whose front legs are now so bowed from his bad knees that he is in constant pain. His owner took a "wait & see" attitude per her vet until he was six and he started shows signs of pain. She then took him to an orthopedic vet and was told it was too late to do the surgery. The poor guy has to be on Tramadol for the rest of his life to help with the pain.

That's why it is so important to get knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet and if surgery is recommended, not to wait until it is too late.

What do his front legs have to do with his knees?

And, pain is not the only measurement....these pups start limping and not using their leg when the LP is really getting worse. Not ALL LPs progress that far!

Honestly, they will get arthritis anyway. Yes, a board certified orthopedic vet is always the way to go.

Was the vet she went to board certified? I have a vet here who has performed surgery in some really BAD cases...and successfully. I have a pup who had a genetic problem in both hind legs....and his knee was literally backwards in one leg. I went to an ortho vet who told me that his knees were inoperable....went to a board cert. vet who FIXED his knee! So...always a second opinion!

I do find it hard to believe that a pup could be ignored by a vet for that long. Signs indicating surgery show up LONG before the knees are that bad.

Is this person who owns this maltese is anywhere near the Houston area, I would be happy to share this vet's name ... he is wonderful! I have seen other surgeries by him that were amazing.

[_Chrissy_]

Originally Posted by annette22

I sent the breeder a letter because I'm not able to speak with her - I'm just so angry I might say hurtful things to her.
I don't have a health guarantee because she is not going to breed anymore. I trusted her since I had a very healthy puppy for almost 4 years that I bought from her, so it's also my fault that I didn't question more.

Where can I get the glucosamine ? Would that be something over the counter or my vet would have that. I don't understand why the vet said there is nothing I can do and when I asked about supplements they said there is nothing out there that would help - but you know what if you don't try, you don't know right?

Thanks guys.

Max has stage 2 LP.
I got Max's Cosequin DS and Cosequin Bonelets on ebay.
Best price
WAY cheaper than vet's office or online stores.

[_Chrissy_]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Each case is quite different. Surgery is indicated when there is a problem that causes discomfort, which is what you are saying happened to Reesie.
Many pups live long lives with LP and never require surgery....and never have issues with their knees! Surgery is not inevitable with LP!

I have quite large veterinary bills and spare no expense when surgery is indicated. Anyone who knows me, knows that this is the case! I would never let a pup suffer....I also would not amputate a limb because of the cost of repair which I have seen. I know anyone doing that would not do that to their own limb...but, that is another topic. I am simply saying that I take no short cuts at all! I have consulted with my vet and also a board certified vet regarding LP and it is not necessary to operate on every one of them.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

What do his front legs have to do with his knees?

And, pain is not the only measurement....these pups start limping and not using their leg when the LP is really getting worse. Not ALL LPs progress that far!

Honestly, they will get arthritis anyway. Yes, a board certified orthopedic vet is always the way to go.

Was the vet she went to board certified? I have a vet here who has performed surgery in some really BAD cases...and successfully. I have a pup who had a genetic problem in both hind legs....and his knee was literally backwards in one leg. I went to an ortho vet who told me that his knees were inoperable....went to a board cert. vet who FIXED his knee! So...always a second opinion!

I do find it hard to believe that a pup could be ignored by a vet for that long. Signs indicating surgery show up LONG before the knees are that bad.

Is this person who owns this maltese is anywhere near the Houston area, I would be happy to share this vet's name ... he is wonderful! I have seen other surgeries by him that were amazing.

Compensating for the bad knees puts abnormal stress on other joints which cause arthritic changes.

I believe bow legs are a fairly common side effect of severely luxated patellas:

If both legs are affected, the dog may adopt a crouched gait and posture, appear bow legged and may even walk on the forelegs with the hind legs completely off the ground.

Luxating patella - a knee cap problem in dogs | Vetwest Animal Hospitals

•Grade IV. The patella cannot be replaced manually, and the leg is carried or used in a crouching position. Extension of the stifle is virtually impossible. Tibial rotation is quite severe, resulting in a "bow legged" appearance.

Patellar Luxation in Small Breed Dogs Teri Dickinson, DVM Luxated patellas or "slipped stifles" are a common orthopedic problem in small dogs. A study of 542 affected individuals revealed that dogs classified as small (adult weight 9 kg (20 lbs) or l

She is on the East coast, but I believe she has found an excellent orthopedic vet. In case I confused you, it's not the LP surgery that would be difficult, it's the severely bowed legs from arthritis that would be difficult and very costly to correct at this point.

20/20 hindsight, she wishes she had consulted an orthopedic vet much earlier instead of waiting until he developed pain.

That was the point I was trying to make, that it is important to have the knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet once your regular vet has made a diagnosis of luxating patellas. They are the most qualified to diagnose and prescribe treatment based on your dog's particular case.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Compensating for the bad knees puts abnormal stress on other joints which cause arthritic changes.

I believe bow legs are a fairly common side effect of severely luxated patellas:

If both legs are affected, the dog may adopt a crouched gait and posture, appear bow legged and may even walk on the forelegs with the hind legs completely off the ground.

Luxating patella - a knee cap problem in dogs | Vetwest Animal Hospitals

•Grade IV. The patella cannot be replaced manually, and the leg is carried or used in a crouching position. Extension of the stifle is virtually impossible. Tibial rotation is quite severe, resulting in a "bow legged" appearance.

Patellar Luxation in Small Breed Dogs Teri Dickinson, DVM Luxated patellas or "slipped stifles" are a common orthopedic problem in small dogs. A study of 542 affected individuals revealed that dogs classified as small (adult weight 9 kg (20 lbs) or l

She is on the East coast, but I believe she has found an excellent orthopedic vet. In case I confused you, it's not the LP surgery that would be difficult, it's the severely bowed legs from arthritis that would be difficult and very costly to correct at this point.

20/20 hindsight, she wishes she had consulted an orthopedic vet much earlier instead of waiting until he developed pain.

That was the point I was trying to make, that it is important to have the knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet once your regular vet has made a diagnosis of luxating patellas. They are the most qualified to diagnose and prescribe treatment based on your dog's particular case.

I am assuming you meant the hind legs are bowed? Or are you saying her back legs were that bad and a vet ignored it until the front legs did that? Just very confusing to me.

And, yes, you are right....I don't play with that kind of thing. BUT, I have pups with LP who have not been to an ortho vet because they simply do not need to go. As soon as there are symptoms I will take them. Just because they pop on an exam does not, imo require an ortho vet. That is Grade 1....and I still find it extremely difficult to understand how that woman's dogs legs got that bad over night. There should have been symptoms!

[ladyjane]

Here is what I am trying to say.....it says that when they are that bad, they probably never walked correctly....so HOW did her vet miss it?

The following is from: Knee Problems In Your Dog - Patellar Luxation - Luxating Patella

Grade 4
These are pets whose knee cap will not stay in its groove even for short periods. These dogs have a hard time walking. Dogs that have suffered this degree of joint damage for more than a year or two usually have pain, developing arthritis and degenerative joint disease. They usually walk with a crouching stance and stand knock-kneed with their toes turned inward.
Grades 3 & 4 generally occur earlier in life. They may not be brought in to a veterinarian for the problem until they are middle-aged, but they usually never walked normally.

[lindula]

Chloe is 6mo. old and was diagnosed with bilateral LP about a month and half ago. I have been giving her Dasuquin (supplement) daily. The vet prescribed it and I purchased the first dose from the vet's office and all the refills online (much better price).

here is some info on dasuquin
Dasuquin® for Dogs | Nutramax Laboratories, Inc.