Originally Posted by annette22 (Post 2967573)

Hi,

I have two 5 month yorkie girls Maya and Lily. When I went for my first Vet visit when they were 10 weeks old, the vet told me that Maya has weak knee caps and we will have to watch for that, but Lily was fine. Now, Maya is not a jumper & she is scared to jump of any furniture but Lily jumps very high. Two days ago, I came home from work and Lily was limping - badly. She couldn't put her paw down, step on it and she was just walking on three legs. Next morning it was much better and she was able to walk, but I took her to see the vet anyways.

The vet said that Lily has very weak knee caps in both her rear legs. They gave me a handout about the disease and said that they were born with this so it was passed along from the parents and they strongly advised me not to breed. The nurse was angry that the breeder keeps breeding puppies with this condition and doesn't say anything to the buyers. I had a dog named Lily from the same breeder who was almost 4 when she was hit by a car and I never had any problems so I decided to get my new girls from the same woman trusting her and thinking she is honest... Was I wrong. I mean what is a chance of buying two girls that have the same condition ???

Anyways, the vet didn't do xrays so I don't know what stage they are at. I see it is getting better but at least once a day I see her limping especially when they play together. Vet told me that it is something new so Lily doesn't really know what it is and she will figure out on her own how to pup it back in. I have doggy steps which I bought when I found out about Maya's weak knee caps when they were 10 weeks old. Other than that I don't know any preventive forms.

The vet told me there is nothing I can do for them. They are not in pay because they don't cry, so they can live with it. She didn't do any xrays so I don't know how bad it is. I'm thinking it's probably the 1st or 2nd stage because she seems ok - only sometimes would raise the leg up for a minute or two and then she seems ok again.

I researched online but it doesn't say if there are any supplements you can take like glucosamine.
Can anyone tell me anything helpful? Did anyone went through anything like this or the surgery??? How much is a surgery like that? I'm looking at probably operating on both of them but as a last resort only. I want to do it the natural way first and see if there is anything I can do to make their life easier.

It's really hard for me to see Lily limping because I lost my other dog 4 months ago and I would do anything to make them not go thru this. They are so small and innocent it makes me want to cry, and it makes me soooo angry at the breeder because she is causing pain not only for the puppies but also for the owners.

:_(

Originally Posted by ReesiesDad (Post 2969832)

I'm no expert but a LP is a mechanical problem. Not everything can be fixed by taking a drug, that only prolongs the inevitable. Recovery times vary but what I noticed about Reesie is that she DIDN'T want to move around in the weeks after surgery and stayed put in her little safe place. What convinced us that surgery was necessary was her poor squeaking whenever she slipped on the floor or tried chasing a toy. If it was your knee what would you do?

Originally Posted by lovespandp (Post 2970860)

Peanut was just diagnosed with LP stage 1-2 in both back knees. I started him on Cosequin and Omega 3 and 6. He has been on it now for about 2 weeks.



Is Flexicose better than Cosequin? Or is it the same pretty much

Originally Posted by capt_noonie (Post 2970374)

I guess I didn't explain myself thoroughly. I do understand that supplements do not solve the problem of LP, and yes I know it is a problem with the skeletal structure of the bones that lets the kneecap slip out. I'm just saying Uni is diagnosed grade 3, yet she does not lift her leg nearly as much as some pups on here I've seen who are diagnosed grade 1 or 2. So is Uni misdiagnosed, or are the others? She's only lifted her leg once time in her whole life that I have seen. And since she comes to work with me every day, I pretty much am with her 24/7.

I do agree that not all pups who have it need surgery, and that yes, it is a case by case basis. For now, I will not think about surgery for her b/c she doesn't lift and doesn't show any sign of pain. She does not walk bowlegged either, and her toes are not pointed inwards either as one of the other posts noted.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2969999)

What do his front legs have to do with his knees?

And, pain is not the only measurement....these pups start limping and not using their leg when the LP is really getting worse. Not ALL LPs progress that far!

Honestly, they will get arthritis anyway. Yes, a board certified orthopedic vet is always the way to go.

Was the vet she went to board certified? I have a vet here who has performed surgery in some really BAD cases...and successfully. I have a pup who had a genetic problem in both hind legs....and his knee was literally backwards in one leg. I went to an ortho vet who told me that his knees were inoperable....went to a board cert. vet who FIXED his knee! So...always a second opinion!

I do find it hard to believe that a pup could be ignored by a vet for that long. Signs indicating surgery show up LONG before the knees are that bad.

Is this person who owns this maltese is anywhere near the Houston area, I would be happy to share this vet's name ... he is wonderful! I have seen other surgeries by him that were amazing.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2968618)

:thumbup:

I am always happy to see that some vets are not jumping up and recommending surgery as the first option. Many of these pups can live out their lives without having LP surgery. My Maxwell lived for 10 years with his (longer, but that is how long I had him) and only on occasion would his knee give him a problem; but thankfully it was a short lived limp here and there. I have had others with what I refer to as "poppy knees" that you can feel in your hands when you pick them up and none have had to have surgery.

There is always a risk of an ACL tear because of an unstable knee, but usually that can be avoided if they are not jumping.

Important to keep weight off of them and not to let them jump on and off of furniture.

I have also heard that glucosamine helps them but have not had first hand experience.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2969847)

Each case is quite different. Surgery is indicated when there is a problem that causes discomfort, which is what you are saying happened to Reesie.
Many pups live long lives with LP and never require surgery....and never have issues with their knees! Surgery is not inevitable with LP!

I have quite large veterinary bills and spare no expense when surgery is indicated. Anyone who knows me, knows that this is the case! I would never let a pup suffer....I also would not amputate a limb because of the cost of repair which I have seen. I know anyone doing that would not do that to their own limb...but, that is another topic. I am simply saying that I take no short cuts at all! I have consulted with my vet and also a board certified vet regarding LP and it is not necessary to operate on every one of them.

Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2969949)

The luxation itself doesn't cause pain. It's when arthritis sets in that it becomes painful. Often it is too late for a successful surgery then.

It is not a good thing to have one’s knee cap out of place; the entire weight-bearing stress of the rear leg is altered which, in time, leads to changes in the hips, long bones, and ultimately arthritis. How severe the changes are depend on how severe the luxation is (i.e. the grade as described above) and how long that degree of luxation has been going on. In time, the legs will actually turn outward with its muscles turning inward, making the dog “bow-legged.” The luxation is not considered a painful condition but after enough time and conformational change, arthritis sets in, which is indeed painful.

Medial Luxating Patella

We have a little Maltese on another forum whose front legs are now so bowed from his bad knees that he is in constant pain. His owner took a "wait & see" attitude per her vet until he was six and he started shows signs of pain. She then took him to an orthopedic vet and was told it was too late to do the surgery. The poor guy has to be on Tramadol for the rest of his life to help with the pain.

That's why it is so important to get knees evaluated by a board certified orthopedic vet and if surgery is recommended, not to wait until it is too late.

Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 2970918)

on xrays dd were both out in both back legs and vet could not manipulate them and she walks fine and does real well - use to before acl injury play frisbee 3hrs a day on tile and hardwood floors no issues. I think the problem is more severe when it is popping in and out - I was shocked when dd xrays showed both back legs out and then he could not manipulate them. Here is what xray looked like

Medial Luxating Patella - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

the pic on left is exactly how the xray looked for both of dd back legs. The vet had a radiologist double check xrays as well and had to pay $85 for a second opinion and he confirmed it. I was shocked as she never acted like it bothered her before injury but grade 4 leaves them susceptible to acl tears

here is a pic of patella

DEE DEE :: stifleanatomy.gif picture by dwerten - Photobucket

it does affect their front legs as dee dee looks like a bull dog at times when drinking or eating and arthritis is inevitible but it is also inevitible if surgery is done

I will try to attach a pic of her legs bowing in front as what happens is they cannot bend the back properly so it bows out the front legs- it is hard to tell in pic but the front legs elbow bend out when bending down to compensate for back legs. Vet told us real important no more twisting, turning, jumping on and off furniture so her frisbee career is all over which is a bummer as she loved frisbee

here is when she injured herself last february :(

DEE DEE :: 2009-3-1009.flv video by dwerten - Photobucket

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 2967631)

I would contact the breeder to make her aware these puppies have LP. Did you have a contract or Health Guarantee? Depending on the laws in your state, you may have specific legal rights regarding the breeders responsibility.