you need to tell your roommate knowledge is power and you need to work as a team with vet to figure out what is wrong so you can narrow things down faster to get her relief. Take the info here in am and get with your vet and start asking questions as sadly vets do not know all on everything and why there are specialists and due to paralysis, loss of bladder this is neurological and spinal NOT liver and if menangitis there would be seizures and shaking is not a seizure trust me you know when a dog has had a seizure and it is not shaking it is convulsing or the petit mal is laying on side stiff with a dazed look and many times they vomit after having a seizure or are spaced out afterwards. Loss of bladder is a sign of a seizure but the amount of pain you are describing more comes with AAI as that is extremely painful. Do you notice any signs of her stiffening her neck at all to the side?

go on to youtube.com and search petit mal seizure and grand mal and you will see what it looks like - I will look to see if there is the aai on there now

YouTube - Atlantoaxial Instability

look at these videos and the chihuahua looks like what you are describing with the legs out etc

Atlantoaxial Instability (Luxation)

more info I am 99.9% this is it the more i read after trauma like you describe from falling down stairs -

thank you so much for all this information. i am waiting still for the test to come back to rule out the shunt. i am hoping that the doctor will start steriods today to get her stable so at least then i can take her to a vet school. i will do just about anything to save my little girl. i have never ever loved a dog like i love her. she is my best friend, my companion and my baby. we are very attached together. she is by my side all the time that i am home. we play and she sleeps with me too. she loves to sit on my lap when i watch tv and i really am missing her. i am going to go to see her this morning and take her a toy that i slept with last night so that she knows i havent just left her by herself. then i can talk to the vet and ask what he thinks and to start treatment asap. thank you everyone again for so much information.. it does help to know.

i just talked to the vet and the test results came back with the bile levels elevated. he is able to rotate her neck totally with no pain so the episodes she has with the pain are not neck related and they dont seem to have a center but sporatic. he has started treatment with a low protein diet and the meds that start with a L. he started that treatment yesterday and she should show signs of improvement within 48-72 hours. if not then he will start the steriods. i am going to see her in a few minutes and take a toy that i slept with so hopefully that will comfort her and let her know that mommie has not forgotten her. :)

i would take her to neurologist and have xrays done still

what were the bile acids? If bile acids are high steroids are very hard on the liver so why would he be giving steroids? The food is L/D and the meds are denomarin which is milk thistle and sam-e -- if the bile acids are over 100 that is more indicative of a shunt and if below 100 most likely mvd which my dog has - The paralysis part has me more concerned neurological so please post ALT numbers and pre and post bile acids for us to review as a lot of vets are not real up on liver shunt and any elevation they want to go right to that

the L is lactulose i am thinking

It is common in this breed. I'm sorry your little girl is sick. I hope they find out what is wrong with her very quickly!

Has your vet suggested a Protein C Test? That will tell him if she has a shunt or MVD. Many vets are not even aware of this test, so I have attached information about it for you to share with him.

Comparative Coagulation -- NYS Animal Health Diagnostic Center

Vet recommendation
 

I see you are in Marietta, GA. I highly recommend taking your little one to Georgia Veterinary Specialists - they are an excellent vet and are in keeping with the Vet School Hospitals. They will have the resources to help you no matter what her diagnosis is.

Here is the link: Georgia Veterinary Specialists

I hope you can figure out what is wrong and start treating her quickly.

her bile levels are 34 and 39. which is not as high as a bad shunt which he told me is usually over a 100. but normal levels are 7. thats what he told me. i went to see her and she seems dazed and didnt focus on me at all. her eyes kept darting around and she was wrapped up in towel and i just held her and talked to her. she was calm but not herself thats for sure. she did have a yelping episode when the girl handed her to me but it seemed that she was just confused and that is why she was yelping. once i spoke to her in a soothing voice she quieted down but still did not look straight at me.

i have heard about the vets at the Georgia Veterinary Specialists but i also heard that they are so expensive and i am looking into financial help from the links that are on the the other thread to help me. my doctor is young and seems up on all the things that yorkies can have. he doesnt think that she has the aai. he is still leaning towards the shunt and/or meningitis. hoping that medicine he is giving her will help.

girl those numbers are not high at all :( it is something else not liver shunt - have her checked by neurologist. My dd had post biles of 73 and 57 and never acted like that - normal is 25 and below it is not liver shunt hun - join the liver shunt group i posted and they can confirm this for you as well -- What was the ALT on blood work?

sorry but the protein c test is not even accurate as a dog i helped had one come up negative and the dog had 4 shunts so i do not trust the protein c test after that and i reviewed it as well as he faxed it to me so not a big fan of protein C test and i really do not think this dog has a shunt so if i felt it did i would recommend scintigraphy but i do not think that is necessary - this seems more neurological to me

after all that i have read on these forums i do not think its the shunt either. the bile wasnt high enough. the vet said that it was elevated enough for concern and did start her on the meds. the one that starts with a L. but when i saw her today she just was totally out of it and didnt even know me. her eyes didnt focus on me at all and she didnt sniff or lick me. i am going to contact the other vet tomorrow and see what they say. her symptoms sound like meningitis or aai. i have been applying for financial help from all the links on the list from here. hopeing and praying that my little girl can get the right treatment asap. i have to keep busy trying to do anything i can think of to help her. if i just sit all i do is cry and that doesnt help her at all.

i want to give her the best chance at a good life as possible. i do not want her to have pain or not be able to play and enjoy herself. i want her to live. i need her to live. she is so sweet and has the best personality in the world.. or to me she does. :)

thanks so much for all your replies and information. i cant tell you how much it helps.



pps.. what are ALT numbers? the vet said her blood work came back inconclusive.

oops double post. sorry

ALT is on the main blood panel a cbc - try to get to a neurologist if you can and she does not need lactulose with those numbers actually she needs nothing but a low protein diet is all mine is on for her mvd. Your dog needs a specialist at this point and i really think the neurologist will give you some answers

I think you should see a neurologist as well.

My Ginger has MVD and they thought she had a shunt. Her bile acids were well over 100 and she had many tests and so they were positive it was a shunt but when they opened her, no shunt. Not that every case is the same but she didn't really act like what you are describing here.

I went to UT's hospital and you would think that they are more experience than some vets but they were actually MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than the emergency hospital that Ginger stayed in. They were able to run ANY test that they needed and they had all the facilities to do it as well as run the quickly. So I do highly recommend a university hospital (even if you have to travel).

I wish you the best of luck and I hope you keep us updated. I will keep checking in.

Btw... Debbie (dwerten) .... WOW you have done a lot of great research. Thank you for sharing those links, I have learned a lot. :thumbup: You are one those people who make YT a sweet place. :)

awe thanks Robin :) I always try to help others and really needed that as had a bad week on another group so this made my night thanks as it is nice to feel appreciated - just hate to see anyone hurt or any dog hurting :(

ok i went to see her again this morning. they have started her on the steriod finally and today it did seem like she knew me. this time i took photos of her and i am going to post them here for everyone to look and tell me what you think. i havent talked to the vet today he will not be in until later but i think the shunt is out as a diagnosis. these photos are not pretty but i have a couple of her in better times and now. i called the other vet and they can get her in but she has to have a referral and since the vet wont be in until later i am just playing the waiting game again. i will try to upload these photos.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...13-11201-1.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...1113-11211.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...kk/roriee1.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...1113-11181.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...91113-1118.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...1113-11181.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...1113-11191.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...1113-11191.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...1113-11201.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/a...id_image11.jpg

there are the photos.. my beautiful baby girl is very very sick. she did also have a yelping episode but totally calmed down when i held her. she did let me manipulate her to take these photos. i was very very gentle and talked very loving to her. i have prayed these last few days more then i have ever prayed in my life. i did join the gme group on yahoo so i am also going to post the photos there.

Poor baby! I hope you get some answers soon. I will keep her in my good thoughts and prayers

Please post the bile acids results.

her bile results were 34/39 :)

Hmmm, while it is possible that a shunt is present (or MVD), those numbers are reall way too low to be causing these types of symptoms.

But then, they are still too high for a normal dog, especially the pre meal.
Maybe there is more than one thing going on here?

Sure sounds like AAI/AAS - I would get the referral to the Specialist at the Vet School.

While it *could* be a shunt, it sounds more spinal (AAI/AAS), and I wouldn't want to mess around with AAI, they are very, very, very fragile, any wrong movement can break her neck. I would NOT let the Vet manipulate her neck again, not without an Xray to make sure :(

I am looking at these pics and OMG do they bring back memories of Babybear when he was having pain before he broke his neck.. Please Tell the vet that you do not think his diagonses is right and you want to look further into AAI/AAS.. This baby looks like she is in so much pain.. Which is not a good thing.. Please if you bring her home treat her like a litte china doll until you get to see the other doc. her little neck is what is causing her to yelp if it is AAI/AAS. IT is because the vertebra are pinching the spinal cord..That is when Babybear woud yelp I didn't know what was wrong.. he would yelp for no reason but he would want you to rub his neck he would put it in your hand to rub even if you didn't want to... This baby needs to see a Neurologist as soon as you can get the referral and please if you have your baby home for the weekend keep her calm and no playing.. keep her on the steroids but don't forget these will decrease the swelling in the spinal cord and will make your baby feel better.. you baby is not better.. it is like putting a bandage on a broken bone.. so keep her calm. this is from a AAI/AAS mom that has gone through a lot with my Babybear.. Please if you have time go to Dog profile for Wheelie Boy Babybear® , a male Yorkshire Terrier and read Babybear's diary.. You will then see why I am stressing keep her calm..
Please keep us updated.. I will be watching this thread for updates..
Prayers going out to your little one.

i got a message from the vet while i was at work. he said that he is now offically worried because she is not responding to the steriods and seems worse then she was before. omg how can this be happening to my baby? i am crying so hard i can hardly type. i dont know what to do. when i go up to the clinic tomorrow what do i tell him to do? i cant bring her home in the condition she is in. she cant even move. she is stiff and in pain and i am frantic. his words exactly were that he was worried that she is not responding to the steriods.. what is wrong with my baby? omg i cant lose her. i just cant.

She needs to go to the nearest vet school as an emergency tonight in my opinion. She can't wait anymore. There is one in Athens. A regular ER facility may not do much good because they can't do the tests that they need to on site. I'm very sorry. :(

i cant even get to her until tomorrow.. the doctor is not available until then. is there a vet school here in atlanta anywhere?