Pain and suffering...
 

I would like to ask anyone who is going through kidney failure or has lost a baby to kidney failure this....Are there signs of pain or suffering that you see in your yorkie?
I am curious how will you tell or when will you know when "it's time" is it something they would just "cross the bridge" in their sleep or would you have to take the step and do?
Julz is such a trooper that i really don't know if she would make it known to me if she was in pain or suffering. Are there signs with Kidney disease? I never had a dog long enough to experience the loss of one and what to look for, i just don't want her to suffer and i don't want to be selfish either....
This is a hard for me but i really don't the answer to...Thanks

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's a difficult situation. We went through this with our Sheltie and it was torture on us. We had taken her to our vet several times for treatment but in the end she was so weak and wouldn't eat at all. We tried everything, including going the grocery store several times a day desperate to find anything she would eat. We tried wet dog food, yogurt, baby food, rice, eggs. Nothing appealed to her. In the end we went back to the vet and she told me "it was time". I knew that in my heart but just didn't want to face it. When the time comes you will know and will make the best decision for your baby.

So maybe a sign of not eating and weakness? we're struggling with eating but have found she likes cream of wheat in the morning and pasta and boiled chicken for lunch and dinner.
Intresting find for us....Since we were instructed to start SQ everyday now, this morning was the first in about 10 days or so that she wouldn't eat. Last night her treatment(SQ) didnt go so well and she didn't get the full amount. So we gave her the treatment and and about an hour later she was interested in eating and ate ALL her breakfast.....is that related to her getting her SQ, or am i pulling at strings?

As far as pain goes, I don't believe Pepper was ever in pain. I know she didn't feel well, and the last few days she just lay curled up on the couch. The very last day she didn't even look at us, but kept her head tucked behind a throw pillow. We could pick her up and she did not seem to have any discomfort with that.

As far as knowing when the time is right and helping your pup if necessary, you will really know when if it comes to that. I didn't think it would be possible to know when the vet suggested that I take Pepper home and let her tell me when she was ready. But she did let me know, and I knew that it was the right decision. There was no way that she was going to get better and her quality of life was gone. She had completely stopped eating and drinking and going to the bathroom.

I think you still have hope, she is still eating, which is a very good sign. Keep your hopes up! I will keep praying for you both.

Wendy

I am so sorry you are going through this. I went through this with an 11 yr old yorkie (years ago) and it was a very difficult time. We were giving her the SQ fluids so often she would just come and get into position for it.

We finally knew it was time to let her go when she started having these seizures. They became worse and worse until finally she could barely move, and we had to have her put down. I couldn't see her suffering any longer.

My little Dixie had congenital kidney failure and went down hill very fast, One day she was ok then the next she wouldn't eat, her breath was so bad I had to sleep with a perfumed cloth on my pillow to try and block out the smell as I couldn't not let her sleep on the bed. She kept doing this thing with her mouth and when the specialist saw her the day I had to put her to sleep, he said that was from the bad nausea the uremic posioning as was her horrible breath. She was put down a week after she was started on meds. While I don't think she was in pain the nausea had to be so bad. If I had known I would have sent her to the Rainbow Bridge 2 days earlier. I thought she would get better on the medicines. She was 7 months old. Myheart goes out to you.

Thanks for your replies...

Patti- you mentioned the smell and the thing she would do with her mouth.- I noticed she licks alot at nothing, like trying to clear her mouth and there's nothign in there, and i noticed her breath has a very distinct smell too. I've noticed that smell before when her BUN levels were elevated....You mentioned the uremic toxins.....could that be what it is???? Was your baby on Azdoyl? another YT member posted that Azdoyl will help with the uremic levels???? It just so happened that I orderd some today.
I know she can't have bad breath becaseu of her teeth, she just had a cleaning and 10 removed about 2 weeks ago. Interesting:rolleyes:

Bad Breath
 

The bad breath is part of the disease. I would notice that when Pepper's levels went up (BUN, Creatinine) her breath would get worse. It's not doggy breath, but a distinct bad breath.

Yes the bad breath is from the uremic posioning and it is very distict and strong. That's exactly what she did with her mouth too. Her Bun was over 600 the day I had to put her to sleep.

Harley also went very fast with kidney failure. No bad breath, just very high kidney values/BUN. He was on fluids for 2 days and when that did not lower his values any I had to make that difficult decision(first time in 57yrs). Little DJ had many kidney/liver problems and was protein loss ,GN-glounerii allowing protein lose into the stomach cavity. 2X Enalapril helped for several months but DJ died a week after Harley. Your little one will tell you with their eyes. Give them all the love you can.:cry:

I lost my baby Roscoe in June to Kidney disease. He was 8.

The bad breath is one thing to "smell" for. The end of his tongue started turning white. He lacked energy and even tried to eat.

I had him on my bed one night as I was very upset that I was going to lose him. I laid with him and just cried and cried. He came up to me, slowly and snuggled in with me and I continued to cry. He just wanted to be so close. I wiped my tears and looked into his brown eyes and he talked to me. He didn't talk but his eyes told me that it was time. He told me he was so tired and he wasn't going to get better and I knew.

I took him in to the vet the next day and we ran tests - his numbers were off the charts. I called my family home and told them about our little Roscoe. All of them came home to be with him. We were there when the Vet injected him. We cried and loved him all the way until he crossed to the Rainbow Bridge. I knew he was there because his eyes were completely dialated. I knew at that point he had energy again and the love of a strong and healthy body.

I still cry, and am even as I type this. Each day I am outside with the other pups I go to his stone and tell him how much I love him and how much we miss him.

RIP my little Roscoe.

I know it's painful for you. I truly believe that our babies tell us when it is time. That was the 2nd Yorkie that I assisted - the first one was full of cancer at 16 years old. It will never get easy and with the kind of love they give me, I wouldn't want it to be.

Sorry this got so long.

Hello Friends

Well this evening Julz was not interested in eating, much like this morning. I put two kinds of cooked meals in front of her and nothing. So i decided to give SQ (50ml), i just finished it so now she is in bed with a blanket she gets the chills after SQ. So in an hour I'll try her food once again, this morning she ate after SQ so fingers are crossed she will me again tonight.
I agree with the breath smell....It is present and it's one I've noticed before with elevated numbers.
Her BUN was 210 when blood was drawn last Sat. so i wonder what it is now, i don't recall teh smell then so i wonder if it's higher

I'm so sorry for your loss, i know how hard it must be for you....I cry all the time now and i just know the end is near, i feel it inside.
I know i would want another yorkie soon, but i feel i would be comparing to my Julz and it wouldn't be fair. I know Julz adn god will guide me when the time is right. How long before you got your new pups?



=Missiemiss;2303189]I lost my baby Roscoe in June to Kidney disease. He was 8.

The bad breath is one thing to "smell" for. The end of his tongue started turning white. He lacked energy and even tried to eat.

I had him on my bed one night as I was very upset that I was going to lose him. I laid with him and just cried and cried. He came up to me, slowly and snuggled in with me and I continued to cry. He just wanted to be so close. I wiped my tears and looked into his brown eyes and he talked to me. He didn't talk but his eyes told me that it was time. He told me he was so tired and he wasn't going to get better and I knew.

I took him in to the vet the next day and we ran tests - his numbers were off the charts. I called my family home and told them about our little Roscoe. All of them came home to be with him. We were there when the Vet injected him. We cried and loved him all the way until he crossed to the Rainbow Bridge. I knew he was there because his eyes were completely dialated. I knew at that point he had energy again and the love of a strong and healthy body.

I still cry, and am even as I type this. Each day I am outside with the other pups I go to his stone and tell him how much I love him and how much we miss him.

RIP my little Roscoe.

I know it's painful for you. I truly believe that our babies tell us when it is time. That was the 2nd Yorkie that I assisted - the first one was full of cancer at 16 years old. It will never get easy and with the kind of love they give me, I wouldn't want it to be.

Sorry this got so long.[/quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patti (Post 2303108) Yes the bad breath is from the uremic posioning and it is very distict and strong. That's exactly what she did with her mouth too. Her Bun was over 600 the day I had to put her to sleep.

Oh my a BUN of 600, how long was it elevated for, do you know? It seems like the past 1 1/2 years she has never been below 40 and we have been "ok" until Sept and things haven't been the same since... That's really high. Do you recall teh highest the Creatinine was? Julz is 3.8, pretty high too....

I am so sorry about your sweet furbaby.... Tinkerbell, my first Yorkie, had kidney failure at 3 years old. I still cry thinking about her and I really understand what you are going through. I keep her pictures and her ashes in an urn on my dresser. She did let us know when it was time. She did not want to eat or drink and just stayed on our lap.

You commented about thoughts of getting another Yorkie. I felt really guilty in the beginning, when I did this, because I loved Tinkerbell so much. I mourned for a couple of months, then decided that there was room in my heart for another sweet furbaby. After more months, we went to the breeder to pick up Piccolo, and I love her very much, also. Though, I will never forget Tinkerbell, and know I will see her at the Rainbow Bridge.

I know this is such a difficult time for you and you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

[/QUOTE]

Oh hon - I'm so sorry. It does appear the end is near. Yes, God will guide you and so with Julz.

My hubby was concerned we would compare all dogs to Roscoe. I knew, by having Tyler before Roscoe, that it was not true. Dogs are social creatures and we still had Bear-Bear at home and he needed companionship. I got Gracie about 3 weeks after Roscoe made his journey to the Rainbow Bridge. Gracie is so very different than Roscoe. Froto, my little male, came afterwards. While he has some similar features as Roscoe his personality is so different (a "good" different). Then came our little Blair. She is NOTHING like Roscoe. Roscoe still is in my heart for his unique way. Yes, I do have 3 more Yorkies - they are about the same size, they all have hair, they all hate it when I cut their toenails (like Roscoe) but they are nothing like Roscoe. I do not feel bad about it as Roscoe has his own place in my heart that non of them can touch.

Know that my heart breaks for you in what you are going through. I would NEVER wish it on anyone because their love for us is unconditional as ours is with them. Roscoe and Tyler "told" me and I recognized it and know they did not suffer. ~ Missie

My heart is breaking as i type....Julz did not eat last night liked i hoped after SQ treatment. She woke us up at 2:30 in the morning vomiting. This morning she ate a treat for my husband and was in the kitchen while i made her cream of wheat but in the end she turned and walked away.
She just lays in bed curled in a ball, when i hold her she wants down and wants to be by herself.
I am really torn with my thought that she is just having a bad day since she has been like this before and has gotten better...of course she would get better after a trip to the Dr. and get SQ, but now we've been giving them i just don't know whatelse could possibly make her feel better...she doesn't cry, but gosh from i read, the breath, not eating, she now walking a bit hunched too....i need direction.
I'll call her Dr in a few minutes and see what he suggest..

Prayers for you and Julz
 

I am crying as I read your post. I know how much your heart is breaking. Please know that I am thinking of you and praying for you.

Well the phone call wasn't a relief, i was told that we could take "aggressive" measures and have IV therapy verses SQ. Meaning she would have to go to the vet office for 24 hr for treatment until the next relaspe and do it again. They could insert a feeding tube for nutrition.... OR make the decision.

I asked about knowing if she is suffering or in pain if we just let her be. He said since she is not eating that her body is absorbing it's own muscel and protein for nutrition and that eventually she would slip into a coma and pass, there is no timeframe of that process, each dog is different.

My husband is not home, but knows of the conversation i had with the vet. We had discussed a few weeks ago that if we were ever left with that option we would not choose IV and feeding tube, what quality of life is that really?
He gets home at noon and we will give her SQ then and see if there is change.
We have not been able to get her to take her thyroid med, Carafate, or vitamin, I'll try putting them in cheese and seeing if she gobbles it up. I hope she doesn't get sick without food in her stomach. *fingers crossed*

My hubby came home early b/c he couldn't see us wait until noon. We gave her SQ (100ml) OUR DECISION TO INCREASE W/O DR. MENTIONED.
So 30 minutes has passed and i made her wheat pasta and more boiled chicken, SHE ATE ALOT!!!! He gave her the med's in cheese and down they went.
We'll give her another 100ml this evening and see how things go then. I know this is "short lived" but for now we'll take it, while she gives it to us, just her and another sign that it is not her time (at least today) it's day by day....Very heartwrenching to live this, see it and keep hoping.
Can i tell you i feel a relief typing all this knowning I'm not alone....Thanks for giving me a place to talk about it.
My supportitive husband can only take so much himself since it's his baby too.

I know exactly what you are going through. I already wrote a bit about my experience in one of the above posts.

I remember that some days, after getting the SQ fluids, it really seemed to make a difference (increased hunger, a bit more energy, etc.) so we too, increased the fluids. How often is she getting them now?

You really do have to take it one day at a time. It is very difficult, but each day is a blessing, and someday you will look back on this and know that you did everything you possibly could. My thoughts are with you.

She was started her fluids 11 days ago, 50ml x 3 days then to every other day then Monday when her BUN was 210 we were told to increase 50 ml 2x daily, Monday night she didn't get a full dose, then yesterday she get it twice daily. Today we decided to increase it 100ml, whcih was about 10:30ish this morning, she ate, but now back to sleeping....
Tonight we'll give another 100ml and see what happens. Weather or not she eats, she is not drinking water at all the vet said OK as long as she is getting SQ??

You're so right that every day is a blessing and that's why I'm home from work today and possibily the rest of the week..

DAY BY DAY

I have been reading you posts about Julz. I went through the exact same thing 6 weeks ago with my 15 year old Yorkie Pebbles. You will know when it is time. You will also know you did everything in your power. I don't know what I would have done without my friends at yorkietalk when I lost Pebbles. The people here have been through it and really do know how you feel. I'll be thinking of you and Julz.

I am in tears reading this. I don't have any experience with this, but I wish you luck with your baby. I hope you have some more quality time with her.

Your post has touched my heart. I don't have any advice to give for I have not experienced what you are going through. I know Julz is one lucky girl to have you as parents. What a blessing you are to her. Please accept the hugs I am sending you and know that I will be thinking of you and I will say a prayer for all of you. Hugs to you and Julz.

Thanks for all your support, it really means more to me than i can even begin to tell you.

Last night went so-so, my husband thougth by giving her 100ml might be too much since we just increased her ourself, without talking to the vet.
While we were having dinner Julz started to beg (nothing new there:))
I made her pasta and chicken, she wasn't all that into it like she was what we were eating, just so happened to be Olive Garden. Well I gave her a clean piece of a pasta noddle, she ate it, same thing as in her bowl, so i gave her pasta out of her bowl, nope! So i rinsed off the Alfredo sauce and gave her about a 1/4 c. of mine...GONE

Well 3 am she woke us up vomiting (again) and it was the pasta. Confused, b/c she ate pasta and chicken earlier in the day and was fine.
This morning we gave her 100ml and she had a few kibbles of cereal. she pretty much stayed in bed under her blanket about 20 min later she had a little bit of diaherra. I gave her dose Carafate and 1/4 pepcid ..I had to leave her an hour later for work... Just breaks my heart.

Of course now I'm thikning "well, maybe she has an upset stomach and it will soon pass and she'll be a okay again" I pull at any glimmer of hope, she does eat, she did lick on some ice last night. I know there will be the "you just know its time" but at the same time, i hope we're not being selfish....she is urinating and her stools were fine up until this morning... Whouldn't another sign be, "when it's time" be when she not urinating or eating at all? She stands in the kitchen watching us for 10-15 min a few times a day....just thought I'd throw that in too.

Forgot to mention i am curently waiting on my bottle of Azdoyl (sp) i will start that rihgt away, i hope it's there when my husbans gets home for lunch. *fingers crossed*:animal36

I've been checking the posts all morning to see how Julz is doing. She is doing all the things Pebbles was towards the end. I know how hard this is for you. It's so awful to see your little baby feeling so bad. Just hold her and lay next to her as much as you can and try not to cry in front of her (i wasn't good with that- couldn't help the crying). Praying for Julz...

Kristen

Kristen-

Thanks for your support. How long did this go on for with Pebbles? I'm seriously considering taking a leave from work to be with her her these are the final days, weeks, or month....Thanks

AND i will be updating on Julz, I feel all your support and appreciate all of you for caring for Julz and what we are going through

Pebbles was diagnosed with kidney failure 2 years ago. She did well for almost 2 years. Two weeks before she passed things changed. She went downhill very quickly. She spent time in the hospital on IV's and still would not eat. We tried every food possible...it was beyond frustrating. Like you I ordered the Azodyl, only to find out it was on backorder. She was up several times throwing up with spots of blood in it. We took her in the next day and found she had stomach ulcers. It could have been treated with more hospitalization and daily Sub Q shots (Pebs was a biter and would have been beyond miserable if I gave her shots). If her mood had been different I would have tried the shots, but I knew we were just buying a few more weeks at best. I didn't want her last days to be in the hospital again, me giving her shots (her wondering why I was hurting her), starving herself. It was the hardest decision I've ever had to make, but I think it was the right one. I knew when she had the bad night of throwing up that it was enough... I didn't want her having another night like that. Her age also helped me decide... at 15 we weren't going to get much more time. I'll always wonder if I should have done more, but I really think it was time.