puppy not eating or drinking enough

[Tcarnagie]

Originally Posted by lulababy

the vet tried the cat food thing. it did not work for long. I really hope bam bam does not have an infection. What were your dogs symptoms other than not eating? Was he lethargic?? Did he run around and play at all?

No running or playing, throwing up, diarrhea, would not eat or drink at all. I got him on a Wednesday night, and he weighted almost 2 lbs, Thursday, would not eat or drink on his own so I forced water, peda-lite and baby food down him, Friday we went to vet and they did Fluid injections and checked stools, gave albon, they tried feeding him different foods there along with cat food and he would not take it, they gave me some powder to sprinkle on food and see if that works but said if I could not get him to eat dog food, continue with baby food. By the next week, there was no change so went back to vet and they did blood work, found an infection due to his white blood cell count, so they switched his medicine and gave something for the nausea and diarrhea. We went to the vet weekly for a total of 9 weeks and he lost a total of 1 lb during that time. The last trip to the vet was to see if we need to put him to sleep. The breeder wanted it and another vet said I should, but my vet said he wanted to try one more antibiotic that was stronger and see, sure enough, we seen immediate results. It still took us a long time to get him to eat on his own and the only thing I could get him to eat was mighty dog canned food. We never found out what was infected or what caused it without having to go to a specialist and seeing that he did recover, there was no need.

Just keep putting food down him as long as he is not vomiting it back up, and I had to constantly stay on the vet. I even switched vets twice until I found somebody that would do something instead of playing the waiting game. He lived almost three years before he was killed and we never had any more medical problems with him.

[Cookie2]

This is VERY stressfull I know it . I have been in your situation and my puppy was not even as tiny though. he weighed 1.5 lbs. I know everyone is stressing to get a Bile Acid Test. But the honest truth is HE IS TOO TINY to have this test done. If you go and read some threads about what has happened to several people who have done the Bile Acid Test on a tiny puppy because the Buyer insisted before buying. Well they should be bigger than this tiny size. I had this done but only when my puppy was like 2 lbs and he still was shaking like crazy because he had not eaten anything.

I know telling you to calm down is not simple to do. Head pressing is not just liver shunt. It could also be an ear infection or something else. My puppy did not want to eat when I brought it home .I struggled to feed him and ended up getting a syringe and adding water to his food and syringe fed him about 4-6 times a day. I also syringed water in his mouth too. I did this for like 2 months straight.
After my puppy was already over a yr old he was diagnosed with Mild form of MVD which is a type of Liver Shunt but can be totally managed with a special diet food. He has been great ever since.

Please talk to breeders here about considering a Bile Acid Test on such a tiny baby.
Syringe feeding is one option until he starts eating on his own.I did that .Then he would only eat it off my hand,then he would only eat it off my leg then finally like 2 weeks of eating off my hand and leg..yes my leg! he finally started eating out of his little bowl.

The day he ate out of his bowl he was like 5 months old I think. I caught him eating and I started to cry and cry. Just thinking all I went through and finally he was eating on his own.
By the way one of mine did the "Head Pressing" and did not want to eat... I was a nervous wreck thinking this was Liver Shunt.Well it turned out to be a bad ear infection .

If you are afraid and in doubt I would syringe Hills Science Diet L/D canned food mixed in with a tiny bit of puppy food.

Good luck,

Genie
Cookie,Lola,Angel & Lucky

[MyPeanutAbbyGra]

Just checking on Bam Bam. I so hope he starts eating and drinking for you.

Let us know how he is as soon as you're up to it.

[Ellie May]

While there is risk if a BAT is done on such a small dog, only a vet experienced in this issue will be able to tell you if the risk outweighs the benefit. While syringing food may help the pup gain weight, depending on how bad whatever is going on is, that may not be adequate.

All paired bile acids are always best, maybe just do one? I don't think it is a great idea but better than nothing...???

Your vet should be able to tell you what to do next.

[Yorkieluv]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

While there is risk if a BAT is done on such a small dog, only a vet experienced in this issue will be able to tell you if the risk outweighs the benefit. While syringing food may help the pup gain weight, depending on how bad whatever is going on is, that may not be adequate.

All paired bile acids are always best, maybe just do one? I don't think it is a great idea but better than nothing...???

Your vet should be able to tell you what to do next.

A fast is most definitely not needed...If you can't do a paired test, then ask your vet if you can have just the post-meal draw done on him to see what the post number is. This may give some insight into whether or not the liver could be the problem.

My yorkie had blood taken when he was under 2 lbs because he was so sick and we needed to know what was wrong with him. Tiny dogs have blood taken everyday safely, but you AND your vet have to both feel comfortable with it.

I just pray that you find what is wrong with your baby...I know how scary this is. If it is a liver problem, your baby CAN live a normal life with proper care, but it has to be identified first.

[mscat]

Originally Posted by Tcarnagie

No running or playing, throwing up, diarrhea, would not eat or drink at all. I got him on a Wednesday night, and he weighted almost 2 lbs, Thursday, would not eat or drink on his own so I forced water, peda-lite and baby food down him, Friday we went to vet and they did Fluid injections and checked stools, gave albon, they tried feeding him different foods there along with cat food and he would not take it, they gave me some powder to sprinkle on food and see if that works but said if I could not get him to eat dog food, continue with baby food. By the next week, there was no change so went back to vet and they did blood work, found an infection due to his white blood cell count, so they switched his medicine and gave something for the nausea and diarrhea. We went to the vet weekly for a total of 9 weeks and he lost a total of 1 lb during that time. The last trip to the vet was to see if we need to put him to sleep. The breeder wanted it and another vet said I should, but my vet said he wanted to try one more antibiotic that was stronger and see, sure enough, we seen immediate results. It still took us a long time to get him to eat on his own and the only thing I could get him to eat was mighty dog canned food. We never found out what was infected or what caused it without having to go to a specialist and seeing that he did recover, there was no need.

Just keep putting food down him as long as he is not vomiting it back up, and I had to constantly stay on the vet. I even switched vets twice until I found somebody that would do something instead of playing the waiting game. He lived almost three years before he was killed and we never had any more medical problems with him.

I did not like that they suggested putting your pup down... Especially when there was not a clear idea as to what is going on . I am glad he is responding to the medication.
As other much more experienced Yorkie Owners have said, do more testing and see what the results are. putting a dog to sleep should be the last option.

[lulababy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Oh, gosh. Is he "head pressing" too? I hate to say it - but I think you need to do bile acids asap, I really do.

One thing I can suggest for food, and it's not the healthiest, but it's not the worst thing: you know those baby "hot dogs" in jars for toddlers? Get those. When Marcel was at his very worst w/ his 2 bouts of Giardia and then post-giardia disaster and NO appetite at times (and under 2 pounds) - those little hot dogs were the ONLY things that were appetizing, period. You could mix in some canned potato or brown rice, supplement some calcium and you'd be okay for awhile until you get him stabilized.

Crystal (EllieMay) may have some good ideas too for homecooking.

OK, this is scary I am really hoping it is the move and he is a picky eater on top of that and that he was marking on the furniture and maybe is developing a bad knee lol He is not "head pressing" (isnt that like kinda running full on to a wall or flat surface?) so that is good. ok let me read the other posts and respond again

[lulababy]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, I agree.
How much does he weigh?

I would probably feed a small amount of egg white (maybe even less than one a day depending on weight). You could peel and boil sweet or regular potato and give those. Vegetables are ok and bit of watermelon and apple (no peeling). I would only do this for a couple days though (unless you have it balanced by a nutritionist).

Hopefully Yorkieluv will know how much egg white.

Absolutely no red meat of any kind and poultry isn't really a good idea right now either.

Maybe try forcing some potato for now?

He is 18 ounces right now/ 1 pound 2 ounce. Well as of a day or so ago--I hope he has not lost more. Okay, if they have liver shunt what are some of the other symptoms?? Would they be sleeping all the time? Or would they be running around fine at sometimes? I just dont know what to think and he is soo little. Wouldnt getting a bile acid test this little really hurt or maybe cause another hypo episode??

[lulababy]

I gave him nutra cal today and he just had a little bit of chicken. What is the minimum amount/times a day a tiny dog can eat and stay healthy?
(at first my vet said he should be eating every 2 hours!!) If he eats twice a day and I syringe him water when i dont see him drink on his own, will he be fine until he gains some weight? Other than the non eating and shaking sometimes, he is really just like any other puppy. He is a little sedate at times--way more calm than pebbles--but that could be his personality. He sleeps often but he IS a puppy. I havent paid exact attention as to when it happens in relation to food, but he does run around and play fight with pebbles and follows me around the house... he is not throwing up or getting diarrhea. I think this is why the vet doesnt want to give him the livershunt test yet, because he is A. very tiny, and B. still rather healthy even though he is losing weight

[Wylie's Mom]

I would take Yorkiluv's advice in terms of the testing - she has SO much experience with this, and great advice - PM her too if you have more questions. He could be lethargic, sleepy, not thriving - could be nauseous, drooling, constipated, excessive thirst - he might experience all or some of those w/ liver shunt, and some puppies don't show symptoms until later.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I mean, it may NOT be this at all - but given a few of the symptoms, it may be worth ruling out. And then also, like others have said - checking the ears really thoroughly too.

In the meantime, get some canned/sliced potatoes or fresh potatoes and mash them up w/ a bit of butter and feed those every 3 hours or so. I'd stay away from proteins until you talk to the vet about testing and/or ask Yorkieluv about diet advice before testing. At least w/ carbs, you won't do harm if there is a liver issue. Hang in there - we're here for you.

[Sunnie]

Hon, sometimes liver shunt has no symptoms and sometimes they have the symptoms you described. Head pressing is what you described as rubbing on the furniture. The walking leaning to the side is another symptom. Now this may also be symptoms of other things as well, so don't be too afraid. There ARE other tests besides a BAT to determine liver shunt. I guess what I am trying to say that if it was MY baby, I would see the vet as soon as possible and demand that they check your babies liver function. Hopefully it is something else. I have one that does not eat well either and I am struggling to get some weight on her. But that being said, I already had a BAT test done on her to rule out liver disease. She doesn't show any symptoms either other than she doesn't like to eat. Hopefully yours will be the same, but I wouldn't take a chance not to have her thoroughly checked out.

[lulababy]

ok. poor bam bam. i am wondering how much it would cost to get these tests done. I mean ill do them anyway, but I want to know what i'm walking into

[Tcarnagie]

Originally Posted by mscat

I did not like that they suggested putting your pup down... Especially when there was not a clear idea as to what is going on . I am glad he is responding to the medication.
As other much more experienced Yorkie Owners have said, do more testing and see what the results are. putting a dog to sleep should be the last option.

I agree, I did not like it when the breeder and the 1st vet suggested it so I found another vet. The 3rd vet that I went to was the only one that would do additional test to see what was wrong and he was the one that was able to cure him. After 9 weeks of getting up every 2 hours to feed and medicate him, you could see that he was suffering and had already given up and that is when I went to the vet and said if we can't help him, then let's not let him suffer anymore, the vet said he wanted to try one last antibiotic that was to strong for him, but what did we have to loose, and it worked. The sad part is he was from a litter of 3 and the breeder had already put the little girl down claiming it was a liver shunt without even having her tested, that is why she recommended me putting Teddy down. I didn't do and found a vet that was willing to try everything before we had to do that.

I had to syringe food and water along with karo syrup every 2 hours. I set the clocks in the middle of the night to make sure he was feed on schedule and it payed off in the end.

Make sure you go back to your vet since there is no improvement and if that vet doesn't want to see why he is sick, find another. Do not delay and be persistent, someone will listen to you and hopefully figure out what the problem is.

[MyFairLacy]

First step is taking him to the vet for a good checkup and talk to your vet about his symtoms. if you truly feel he is exhibiting liver shunt symptoms, then I would definitely do a bile acid test. Fasting is no longer required so it's much safer than it was in the past due to hypoglycemia. Before his next meal is due, a blood sample will be taken. He will then be fed and two hours later another blood sample will be taken. This test is no more risky than a routine blood draw for a blood panel. If your vet is experienced with tiny puppies and is familiar with the procedures for a BAT then your puppy should do fine for the test. And if you truly think there might be a posibility of liver shunt, the earlier he is diagnosed the sooner as you can start treatment. Otherwise at his size, he could quickly become too sick to be treated

Here is the most current update from Dr. Sharon Centers on liver shunt and Bile Acid Testing http://www.yorkiefoundation.org/purina1.pdf

Dr. Center's once said that 16 weeks was the ideal time to test but has now revised that to 18 weeks. However, if he is showing symptoms of liver shunt, a BAT should be done.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by lulababy

ok. poor bam bam. i am wondering how much it would cost to get these tests done. I mean ill do them anyway, but I want to know what i'm walking into

A pre and post meal BAT runs about $80 here